Miller is overrated.

[larryfilmmaker]

The one thing they taught the kids in training is that doing what's right is more important than anything, even yourself.
.

Right. Bottom line here. What the hell is "the right thing" about throwing a baby off a cliff? Really, that says it all.

So they all stood up to let an old man have a seat and they are a culture based upon doing the right thing?

Yes, I keep dwelling on the "throwing babies off of cliffs" because nobody ever truly responds to that part. It IS wrong. Everybody who wasn't brainwashed by pride or patriotism KNOWS it's wrong, and yet the Spartans do it anyways.

I just want to hear it, I know you can do it... just agree that throwing babies off of cliffs for being less than physically perfect is disgusting and the people who do it are disgusting as well. It might hurt a little to admit it, but we both know it's the right thing to do. :0)

 

[kainedamo]

I too am concerned about the black and white portrayel of the Spartans as "democratic" goodies and the Iranians as evil.

But I'll reserve judgement till I watch the movie.

 

[The Question]

Right. Bottom line here. What the hell is "the right thing" about throwing a baby off a cliff? Really, that says it all.

No it doesn't. Yes, that's not a good thing. But they still sacrificed their lives to protect their people and their country. And that is heroic.

So they all stood up to let an old man have a seat and they are a culture based upon doing the right thing?

Yes, I keep dwelling on the "throwing babies off of cliffs" because nobody ever truly responds to that part. It IS wrong. Everybody who wasn't brainwashed by pride or patriotism KNOWS it's wrong, and yet the Spartans do it anyways.

I never said anything to the contrairy. Of course throwing babies off of cliffs is messed up. All I did was say that what Leonidas and his crew did was still heroic, and that you were looking at things a might bit too simplisticly.

I just want to hear it, I know you can do it... just agree that throwing babies off of cliffs for being less than physically perfect is disgusting and the people who do it are disgusting as well. It might hurt a little to admit it, but we both know it's the right thing to do. :0)

You are such a pompous ass.

Matt's different. He wasn't born in Ireland, and he is unmistakingly a New Yorker. And he was created, what, 20 years before Frank Miller even started writting comics?



The woman in Born Again is most definately a bad stereotype. "Oh the explosions!! Oh the troubles!!".

That's just one character. It was just meant to be a joke. I think you're taking it a bit too seriously.

 

[kainedamo]

It wasn't meant to be a joke at all. It was Miller writing a bad character. Miller isn't God. He's capable of writing bad characters you know.

 

[The Question]

It wasn't meant to be a joke at all. It was Miller writing a bad character. Miller isn't God. He's capable of writing bad characters you know.

Yes, I do. I just don't think it's that big a deal either way.

 

[kainedamo]

I found it quite offensive, actually. If you're going to write about characters from other countries, find out a little about how they actually talk first.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

You are such a pompous ass.
.

You should just have said "Pompass". Less typing. You're the guy calling other peoples' views "simplistic" while you eat Grey Poupon and get paid on the back end by Frank Miller to defend his works. POMPASS!

p.s. I really don't care and I'm not offended. Fire away.


I DO think it's nice to let an old man have a seat at a stadium. However, if that old man had been born less than physically perfect they would have MURDERED him. Simplistic views or not, sometimes it's the basics of right and wrong we have to acknowledge, not just the long rants and debates that try to hide the obvious.

 

[Darthphere]

So now were comparing the standards of a society from more than 2 thousand years ago, to our modern society? Anybody else see the problem in that? Sure, by today's standards throwing babies off a cliff for being less than perfect is horrible, evil, disgusting, etc. But it wasn't back then. I don't see the issue.

 

[kainedamo]

The issue is, is Miller making the Spartans look better than what they were, while at the same time painting the Iranians as evil.

 

[Darthphere]

The issue is, is Miller making the Spartans look better than what they were, while at the same time painting the Iranians as evil.

Persians. There was no such place as Iran back then.

I live in Florida, that doesn't make me a Seminole.

Miller is offering a fictionalized perspective to a historical event. If you don't like that perspective, you're free to read something else that shows the Persians in a more sympathetic light.

 

[kytrigger]

The issue is, is Miller making the Spartans look better than what they were, while at the same time painting the Iranians as evil.

Of course they were painted as evil. Name one time in all of history where a conqueing nation that lost was considered good and just? It's from the view of the Spartans, why on earth would the Persians look like good guys to them?

 

[kainedamo]

Well I would have just thought our society would have grown past that.


There would have been a time where native American Indians were dramatically portrayed as savages and through and through bad guys. But over the years they chose to represent them more realisticly in movies.

There would have been a time were cartoonists would draw black guys with huge red lips and dumb eyes.

Can you really blame the Iranians for being offended by this movie?

 

[Harlekin]

Yes.

Not only did Iran not exist back then, it happens over 2500 years ago! That's nothing like the stereotypical depiction of blacks and indians. Really, I don't understand the huff.

 

[The Question]

You should just have said "Pompass". Less typing. You're the guy calling other peoples' views "simplistic" while you eat Grey Poupon and get paid on the back end by Frank Miller to defend his works. POMPASS!

You do realize that being so rude and making random, baseless statements like that completely undermines your arguement.

I DO think it's nice to let an old man have a seat at a stadium. However, if that old man had been born less than physically perfect they would have MURDERED him.

No they wouldn't have. He wasn't a Spartan.

Simplistic views or not, sometimes it's the basics of right and wrong we have to acknowledge, not just the long rants and debates that try to hide the obvious.

I never once denyed that. All I'm saying is that it doesn't make what Leonidas did any less heroic.

 

[Darthphere]

Yes.

Not only did Iran not exist back then, it happens over 2500 years ago! That's nothing like the stereotypical depiction of blacks and indians. Really, I don't understand the huff.

Exactly, like I said, I'm from Florida, that doesn't make me a Seminole.

And really, what Kaine is trying to argue is that, Spielberg is an ******* for showing the Nazi's in such a bad light and showing the Jews as innocent victims in Schindler's List. Thats the extent of his argument.

You can say what you want about the Spartans and their practices but an invasion force of millions, taking over countries and enslaving people isn't going to get my sympathy, at all.

 

[kainedamo]

Well, I have said I will reserve ultimate judgement till I actually watch the film. I can just sort of understand what the hub bub is about.

 

[Darthphere]

Well, I have said I will reserve ultimate judgement till I actually watch the film. I can just sort of understand what the hub bub is about.

Maybe you should've done that from the start.

 

[fifthfiend]

his male protagonist is almost always this one note "man's man"

Well he did do those Martha Washington comics, where the female protagonist who was the one-note man's man. So that was a nice change of pace.

Now, let's see the Frank Miller version of Kingdom Come...

He made it already, it was called The Dark Knight Strikes Again.

It was about what you would expect.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Persians. There was no such place as Iran back then.

I live in Florida, that doesn't make me a Seminole.

Miller is offering a fictionalized perspective to a historical event. If you don't like that perspective, you're free to read something else that shows the Persians in a more sympathetic light.

Yep. A land that had slaves and justified murder was defending it's borders from a country that would have enslaved and murdered. It makes PERFECT sense. Hail Miller!

 

[larryfilmmaker]

You do realize that being so rude and making random, baseless statements like that completely undermines your arguement.
.

funny, I don't remember anybody jumping down the throats of the people who mobbed the original poster for his views. Didn't he get a big picture of the gay dude from South Park saying "that's super" and a bunch of responses that tried to shut him down immediately? I thought THAT was rude. Hmm.

 

[fifthfiend]

Is there some reason you've decided to get re-torqued about this, fully five and one-half months after the fact?

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Is there some reason you've decided to get re-torqued about this, fully five and one-half months after the fact?

uhh... I just hadn't read the responses. Is it okay or should we have the recent posts deleted because it's not new enough?

 

[fifthfiend]

I'm not really trying to dictate to anyone whatever cutoff point there is for responding to an old thread, I just don't see why you were getting like, angry and sarcastic in response to stuff people were saying half a year ago.

I mean we all say some pretty harsh things in the heat of the moment, but when the heat of the moment is six months removed, I don't see any reason not to take the opportunity to at least try and step back and breathe deep a bit and explain whatever it is you have to say with a little less attitude and personal feeling. I mean even if Darth or whoever really was being that much of a dick six months ago, sometimes you make your point a lot better just showing you can be the bigger person about that kind of thing.

 

[Darthphere]

Yep. A land that had slaves and justified murder was defending it's borders from a country that would have enslaved and murdered. It makes PERFECT sense. Hail Miller!

Actually it does.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

I'm not really trying to dictate to anyone whatever cutoff point there is for responding to an old thread, I just don't see why you were getting like, angry and sarcastic in response to stuff people were saying half a year ago.

I mean we all say some pretty harsh things in the heat of the moment, but when the heat of the moment is six months removed, why not just take a deep breath and chill out a bit, and just say whatever it is you want to say without letting all the personal stuff get in the way.

dude forums don't get me worked up at all... it's just the way the typed words come off when people read em