Minimum Wage Goes Up!

[Majic Walrus]

Then quit. Companies aren't required to pay you what you think you deserve to be paid. If you don't think your work is equal to their pay - then quit. Don't ***** about the company. Workers shouldn't dictate their salary.

That is true.

 

[katie_girl09]

I think what Katie is saying is that the goal of capitalism is to succeed and get filthy ****ing rich. When there is a lot of money going around now the demand starts to exceed supply, and then prices go up.

This.

 

[terry78]

Watch the Duck Tales ep. where Huey Dewey and Louie start cloning a quarter with Gyro's invention...Scrooge schools them on inflation.

 

[Alistair]

Guys,

I never said I wasn't looking for a new job, nor did I say they should pay me. I'm basically saying, min wage should stayed the same, since people who worked for it should get paid about it, but with it being bumped up, ones that are lazy are getting increased, and the ones that worked for it sometimes get jacked. I know life isn't fair, and isn't full of roses, but I'm just saying it stinks for the ones that did work for what they "did" get too.

Norman,

Thanks, I feel so much better about myself since I'm a "Bratty" little person.

Anyways,
Ali

 

[Heretic]

Alistair...

Yeah, some companies will screw you. Maybe the person above you hates your favorite band and refuses to ever promote you...that DOES happen. It's happened to me. I remember getting passed over for a spot dealing with a band because the other guy was "more knowledgeable about the band" when I happen to be personal friends with them, have toured with them many times, have their cell phone numbers, and worked for their record label in the publicity department for that band!

It happens...and when it does...you have the option of leaving. If you are a good worker then by all means, take those skills and put them to use at a competitor.

 

[Heretic]

A post so nice, i did it twice.

 

[Paradoxium]

I think what Katie is saying is that the goal of capitalism is to succeed and get filthy ****ing rich. When there is a lot of money going around now the demand starts to exceed supply, and then prices go up.

What does that have anything to do with minimum wage? Many countries including Hong Kong (well until recently), Singapore, Finland, Germany and Norway have no minimum wage and they seem to function even with fractional reserve systems.

Anyways, as you already notice. The problem is, demand is not exceeding supply now, it wasn't suppose to, but only occurred because Americans kept borrowing money. 3/4 of the American GDP was dependent on consumption, now this imbalance is being corrected by this gigantic recession. This is why there is deflation going on right now.

If we are somehow suppose to calibrate the minimum wage by deflation and inflationary forces, we should be slashing the minimum wage right now. And we are talking about a slash of a third of its current value.

 

[Majic Walrus]

This.

I knew you loved me.

What does that have anything to do with minimum wage? Many countries including Hong Kong (well until recently), Singapore, Finland, Germany and Norway have no minimum wage and they seem to function even with fractional reserve systems.

Anyways, as you already notice. The problem is, demand is not exceeding supply now, it wasn't suppose to, but only occurred because Americans kept borrowing money. 3/4 of the American GDP was dependent on consumption, now this imbalance is being corrected by this gigantic recession. This is why there is deflation going on right now.

If we are somehow suppose to calibrate the minimum wage by deflation and inflationary forces, we should be slashing the minimum wage right now. And we are talking about a slash of a third of its current value.

I wasn't talking about our current situation at all just the concept of capitalism as an economic plan.

Katie said that prices go up and that is not a strange occurrence. I agreed because the goals of capitalism even working perfectly would still cause prices to increase and facilitate the need of a wage increase.

 

[Paradoxium]

The assumption made is price increases means more profit. You know this is silly.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

It would seem to me, a lot of people rely on their day-to-day jobs as their only source of income. This goes for minimum and non-minimum wage earners. This is incredibly inside the box thinking.

It is often the case that low earners have very little disposable income and therefore are unlikely to make income generating investments.

The more money you have the easier it is to make good returns given your investment prospects tend to become increasingly interesting.

You are right that it is inside the box thinking but few have the luxury to think outside the box.

I myself run a Company and I do make a decent amount. None of my employees (including the assistants) earn minimum wage so any change in it has little effect for me but given the concept exists it is quite normal for it to increase even though it remains at levels below what many truly require given the jobs are often available in areas with a relatively high cost of living.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The assumption made is price increases means more profit. You know this is silly.

The assumption is only correct if you do not expect a slump in demand which is counter intuitive but for certain luxury items increases in prices do not dampen demand and can increase profitabilty but this is not the general case.

 

[Majic Walrus]

The assumption made is price increases means more profit. You know this is silly.

The assumption is only correct if you do not expect a slump in demand which is counter intuitive but for certain luxury items increases in prices do not dampen demand and can increase profitabilty but this is not the general case.

Here's this thing though price increases don't necessarily increase profit but it is the goal. The goals of capitalism are to increase profit and increases in profit cause increases in demand.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Here's this thing though price increases don't necessarily increase profit but it is the goal. The goals of capitalism are to increase profit and increases in profit cause increases in demand.

How does an increase of profit cause an increase in demand?

An increase in demand can cause an increase in profit but I do not see how it works the other way around.

 

[Majic Walrus]

How does an increase of profit cause an increase in demand?

An increase in demand can cause an increase in profit but I do not see how it works the other way around.

The theory, and I'm not an economist so I could be unclear on the subject, is that the more money you have the more **** you can buy with it.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The theory, and I'm not an economist so I could be unclear on the subject, is that the more money you have the more **** you can buy with it.

That is true in so far that an increase in disposable income will often lead to increase in demand even though that is overly simplified given how people will also save more money instead of consuming as their income increases. However, the increase in profitabilty does not globally increase demand given few poeple actually reap the rewards of the type of profitabilty you refer to and it would have to be on a very large scale for it to truly effect demand on a macroeconomic scale.

 

[Majic Walrus]

That is true in so far that an increase in disposable income will often lead to increase in demand even though that is overly simplified given how people will also save more money instead of consuming as their income increases. However, the increase in profitabilty does not globally increase demand given few poeple actually reap the rewards of the type of profitabilty you refer to and it would have to be on a very large scale for it to truly effect demand on a macroeconomic scale.

Well see that's sort of the point. The few people who reap the rewards are enough to cause the price of certain things to increase. Couple this with excess buying and you now have a great demand for certain items causing the price of those items to rise. This is especially true for non-manufactured goods like foodstuffs.

You have the upper-middle class turning into the upper class suddenly causing a rise of prices. The upper-middle and upper classes can afford these changes but the lower-middle and lower classes cannot.

This is not always practically true because there are other circumstances that change it. What I am talking about is a fiercely capitalistic system the likes of which have not completely graced this world.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I guess then we are largely in agreement given how you have elaborated on your intial statement

 

[Majic Walrus]

I guess then we are largely in agreement given how you have elaborated on your intial statement

Wow... This is the first debate I've made that didn't end in hating someone.

 

[Paradoxium]

It is often the case that low earners have very little disposable income and therefore are unlikely to make income generating investments.

The more money you have the easier it is to make good returns given your investment prospects tend to become increasingly interesting.

You are right that it is inside the box thinking but few have the luxury to think outside the box.

I myself run a Company and I do make a decent amount. None of my employees (including the assistants) earn minimum wage so any change in it has little effect for me but given the concept exists it is quite normal for it to increase even though it remains at levels below what many truly require given the jobs are often available in areas with a relatively high cost of living.

Perhaps not to the borderline wage earners. But a Cash Deposit and a few books can go a long way.

I am more particularly annoyed by those who live paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyles (non min, office workers) who whine about their circumstances and pay, and do the things they do when it is well within their own power to change it. All without a single pay raise. I am not talking about buying more equities only, they should have some passive income or side gig, especially with the opportunities the internet presents.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Perhaps not to the borderline wage earners. But a Cash Deposit and a few books can go a long way.

I am more particularly annoyed by those who live paycheck-by-paycheck lifestyles (non min, office workers) who whine about their circumstances and pay, and do the things they do when it is well within their own power to change it. All without a single pay raise. I am not talking about buying more equities only, they should have some passive income or side gig, especially with the opportunities the internet presents.

Not every can afford to work a second job or spend time on an internet job as a side-gig.

 

[Paradoxium]

Not everyone sure, but for a lot of people, it is a realistic possibility. You obviously know I am not talking about some single mom with a kid. I am talking more in line with those of a full/part time job and has free time after work and the weekend. It requires sacrifice and time management. It means going to the bar a lot less, watching less (to no) TV, play no more games, being less pent up about foppish fashion, and even be willing to give up having a relationship (unless she is willing to stay the course with you as support).

 

[Majic Walrus]

Not everyone sure, but for a lot of people, it is a realistic possibility. You obviously know I am not talking about some single mom with a kid. I am talking more in line with those of a full/part time job and has free time after work and the weekend. It requires sacrifice and time management. It means going to the bar a lot less, watching less (to no) TV, play no more games, being less pent up about foppish fashion, and even be willing to give up having a relationship (unless she is willing to stay the course with you as support).

Fair point, I don't want to see single people complain about living paycheck to pay check to support their fashion, TV, and drinking habits. I knew a girl once who complained about bouncing a check to buy a $100 pair of shoes.

But I think it's fair to say that many people are in different situations. I know that I took a new job recently and had been attempting to maintain my other job as well but working two full time jobs quickly got the better of me.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Not everyone sure, but for a lot of people, it is a realistic possibility. You obviously know I am not talking about some single mom with a kid. I am talking more in line with those of a full/part time job and has free time after work and the weekend. It requires sacrifice and time management. It means going to the bar a lot less, watching less (to no) TV, play no more games, being less pent up about foppish fashion, and even be willing to give up having a relationship (unless she is willing to stay the course with you as support).

What you are talking about is very difficult for most. When I was an investment banker working in M&A I did work 100 hour weeks on average (this meant I was working Saturdays and Sundays and often very late at night) and I really did not have much of a life. I lost my girlfreind of the time who felt there was no point having a relationship with someone who was never there but I can tell you I saw quite a few drop out after 6 months because they could not handle it. Not everyone is wired to succeed and even those who aren't feel they have a right to complain which is simply human.

 

[Scarlet spidey]

I am half serious katie, don't take it personally. It's more of a pet peeve that riles me up. t:

scarlet spidey's point is really important. The vast majority of price increase and expenses is combo of many factors. A chunk of it comes from the government and their control of the money supply (whilst perverting the private market). Technically speaking, a hardcore capitalist economy would have a full reserve system or gold standard. Under a tight reserve or gold system, most prices would be stable as hell, even to the point where it will deflate. Meaning $20 100 years ago would be worth pretty much the same now, maybe even more if people spend less.

Look up the topic "fractional reserve" system (here and here), because this is what we have. It is government demand management of the economy, the opposite of capitalism. Hence the irony of your post.

edit add: In other words, price increases for the most part is a symptom of inflationary practices by the government. While companies have some degree of control of prices it is negligible at best. It is not the case where companies act like ***** and decide to raise price arbitrarily. If they did that in a full reserve or gold standard system, they will have no demand anymore. They they would go bankrupt, because no one would be able to afford it by virtue of the limit in money in circulation. They have the ability to do so in our modern banking system because of more money pumped into the system (thus devaluing the value of each dollar - but its a bit more complicated than this, but giving you the thrust of the point).

Para... if you weren't a guy...:heart:

 

[terry78]

Fair point, I don't want to see single people complain about living paycheck to pay check to support their fashion, TV, and drinking habits. I knew a girl once who complained about bouncing a check to buy a $100 pair of shoes.

But I think it's fair to say that many people are in different situations. I know that I took a new job recently and had been attempting to maintain my other job as well but working two full time jobs quickly got the better of me.

Were the shoes Jordans?