More Doom and Gloom from Alan Moore

[CrimsonMist]

Well, hey, he's only stating the obvious.

And i'm sure it'll be full of crazy, seizure-inducing cosmic craziness that no one will ever understand just to distract you from the lack of emotional, character driven storytelling! HEY-OO!t:

 

[Frankenmation]

It really doesn't bother me that much when a writer/artist say "screw the fans". Obviously, I understand why it would bother people but it's not enough to turn me off a writer for good. I mean, sometimes fans really don't always know what they want *shrug*

 

[Frankenmation]

And i'm sure it'll be full of crazy, seizure-inducing cosmic craziness that no one will ever understand just to distract you from the lack of emotional, character driven storytelling! HEY-OO!t:

You're so cute and wubly when you go on your anti-Morrison tirades.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You do realize I said are, not aren't there, right

Ooooops. For some reason, I read aren't

 

[CrimsonMist]

I might be wrong, but if we're thinking of the same thing, that was something an editor said in relation to an upcoming Morrison Batman story, not himself.

I was mostly talking about how Morrison really talks down to the fans. On more than one occasion I've read him basically saying 'screw the fans' in some form or another. Though, yeah, he does come off as somewhat full of himself something when I read/see interviews of him. That doesn't bother me that much (I know artists have egos, it's just the way it is for the most part), but I find the irony since I really don't think Moore is worse.

If that's the case, then I stand fully corrected.

as for the rest, I think this is the first time Moore's said something that actually rubbed me the wrong way, especially as he seemed incredibly well-informed about what went on during the making of Watchmen and such, and seemed to know what Marvel was doing cinematically, and also seemed to be aware of what the comic companies were doing to some degree. For him to say that there's no talent in mainstream comics is just stupid. He was either being serious, or given the situation he was talking about, he was genuinely upset and said it out of that.

Morrison's big thing about how fans should stop whining about how they're sick of event books was incredibly moronic too. Because event books suck. I just want my well-told stories back.

 

[CrimsonMist]

You're so cute and wubly when you go on your anti-Morrison tirades.

Only for you, deary-dear!

 

[hippie_hunter]

I might be wrong, but if we're thinking of the same thing, that was something an editor said in relation to an upcoming Morrison Batman story, not himself.

I was mostly talking about how Morrison really talks down to the fans. On more than one occasion I've read him basically saying 'screw the fans' in some form or another. Though, yeah, he does come off as somewhat full of himself something when I read/see interviews of him. That doesn't bother me that much (I know artists have egos, it's just the way it is for the most part), but I find the irony since I really don't think Moore is worse.

Moore is way worse than Morrison. Not that I'm defending Morrison, but at least he praises things that he likes. Moore constantly has to berate and insult others with his comments while acting like he's the greatest thing ever like many comic book writers (like Morrison) tend to do.

 

[Frankenmation]

Only for you, deary-dear!

 

[Tron Bonne]

It really doesn't bother me that much when a writer/artist say "screw the fans". Obviously, I understand why it would bother people but it's not enough to turn me off a writer for good. I mean, sometimes fans really don't always know what they want *shrug*

It doesn't bother me, either. Like I said, writers and artists with egos are things I just understand. But you see the contradiction I'm getting at here. Morrison can say those things, can act full of himself, and all that, but Moore does those kinds of thing, he's automatically the prince of the *****ebags. I know people get rubbed the wrong way, and I have gotten into arguments about this in the past, but the only real difference I see is that Moore is unabrashed in crappy on the industry and the direction it's taken in recent years, he flipping the finger to DC and Marvel in damn near anyway he can, and I think that fans get way more defensive because of that.

Of course, I'm mostly talking about previous events. In this interview, in that place the OP pointed to, he does come off very *****ey.

 

[CrimsonMist]

heh

but seriously, it's not that I hate what Morrison is doing with Batman. In fact, i'll be one of the first to tell you that what Morrison is doing with Batman is fine, and very in line with the character and the universe he inhabits. Hell, it baffles me how some fans can say it's stupid that Batman's in the Justice League. Look at the universe he inhabits and look at how highly ranked he is in the DCU. He gets to fight cosmic battles because he's Batman, one of the top three. It's not like the Punisher: a street-character inhabiting a crazy sci-world who isn't allowed to take down the heavy hitter villains. Batman CAN do that.

I'm just annoyed that Morrison's comics take 30 seconds(exaaaaaageration!) to read and the lack of emotional connection for the reader. Honestly, I just find his comics to be very blandly written, which is ironic given the scenario of his Bat-stories.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Moore is way worse than Morrison. Not that I'm defending Morrison, but at least he praises things that he likes. Moore constantly has to berate and insult others with his comments while acting like he's the greatest thing ever like many comic book writers (like Morrison) tend to do.

But he doesn't really. He has always praised over people, especially artists he's worked with, like O'Neal and Gibbons, and people who inspired him. Sure, he's made some blanket statements and coy winks certain ways, but no more than, say, JMS did recently in talking about Wonder Woman. This is the first time I can think of where he literally flat out said there was no talent in the mainstream comic industry.

 

[Frankenmation]

But you see the contradiction I'm getting at here. Morrison can say those things, can act full of himself, and all that, but Moore does those kinds of thing, he's automatically the prince of the *****ebags. I know people get rubbed the wrong way, and I have gotten into arguments about this in the past, but the only real difference I see is that Moore is unabrashed in crappy on the industry and the direction it's taken in recent years, he flipping the finger to DC and Marvel in damn near anyway he can, and I think that fans get way more defensive because of that.

Well yeah, I think the reason why people are harder on Moore than someone like Morrison is because Moore is openly attacking and criticising others in the field. Morrison is a bit of an egomaniac and blows his own horn more than once but as far as I know, apart from him basically saying "screw the fans", he hasn't taken shots at other writers or artists.

That's just my view on it.

 

[Frankenmation]

I'm just annoyed that Morrison's comics take 30 seconds(exaaaaaageration!) to read and the lack of emotional connection for the reader. Honestly, I just find his comics to be very blandly written, which is ironic given the scenario of his Bat-stories.

Well, to each his own but I never had any of those problems with his run.

Okay, sometimes the comics are very quick to read but for me anyway I think it's because I get very involved with them. The last issue of B&R was particularly gripping.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Well yeah, I think the reason why people are harder on Moore than someone like Morrison is because Moore is openly attacking and criticising others in the field. Morrison is a bit of an egomaniac and blows his own horn more than once but as far as I know, apart from him basically saying "screw the fans", he hasn't taken shots at other writers or artists.

That's just my view on it.

Well, yes, that's the case now, I agree. But as far as before, like I said here:

But he doesn't really. He has always praised over people, especially artists he's worked with, like O'Neal and Gibbons, and people who inspired him. Sure, he's made some blanket statements and coy winks certain ways, but no more than, say, JMS did recently in talking about Wonder Woman. This is the first time I can think of where he literally flat out said there was no talent in the mainstream comic industry.

He hasn't really been that brash in the past. Usually it's like some blanket term aimmed at DC or something. They are just doing blah. He's never said, the writers are all hacks, like some make him out to have said. I've seen him praise other writers and artists through interviews and glowing introductions to certain works. He just isn't this evil, hate-all that comic fans like to paint him as. He's an ass, sure, but we're all asses, some just smell worse than others.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Well, to each his own but I never had any of those problems with his run.

Okay, sometimes the comics are very quick to read but for me anyway I think it's because I get very involved with them. The last issue of B&R was particularly gripping.

Don't me wrong though. That issue of RIP that had Bruce's back-up Batman personality was badass. There have been a few moments where I've been over something he's done, but those are far and few between.

B&R 13 was pretty damn good. Haven't got around to reading yet. It's still sitting on my desk. I've been taking my sweet time reading Eric Powell's Billy The Kid's Old Timey Oddities #1, the new BPRD: Hell On Earth comic and Mike Mignola's Amazing Screw-On Head hardcover.t:

ADDITION:

In regards to the "To each his own". It's nice to finally see that in regards to Morrison's Batman. I hardly ever post in these parts because of the lack of that.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Okay, so I read through the rest of the interview and, even though what he said is still pretty unwarranted, I think there's very interesting things in this article outside that. If that thing about Steve Moore is true, that's just out and out **** on the part of DC. I guess there's no proof they were related, but I have to agree with Moore that it is an awful coincidence those two events paralleled. Sounds like he had a much more frustrating time with the Watchmen stuff than I thought. His assessment of the situation does come out as a little paranoid, but if the elements did happen more or less the way he's describing, it does sound as if something is a little twisted with the property.

Also, I thought this was an interesting passage:

Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything? Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since? I could ask about why Marvel Comics are churning out or planning to bring out my ancient MARVELMAN stories, which are even older, if they had a viable idea of their own in the quarter-century since I wrote those works. I mean, surely that would be a much easier solution than all of this clandestine stuff? Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. It shouldn’t be too big an ask, should it? I wouldn’t have thought so. And it would solve an awful lot of problems. They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren’t. That’s just my suggestion for a way that DC could remove themselves from this thorny impasse, but we shall see.

Is Moore contradicting himself here, or is this just a bit of him being tongue-in-cheek?

 

[Karelia]

Some of those tweets were hilarious from the other comic book creators.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I loved the one's from Aaron and Tieri.

 

[Karelia]

I loved the one's from Aaron and Tieri.

Those were my favorites as well.

I thought DC already said they decided not to do Watchmen prequels? Or did I dream that up?

I wouldn't be upset if they made prequels/sequels/whatever as long as it's good. If it's not, it won't be remembered and thrown out of continuity anyways.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Those were my favorites as well.

I thought DC already said they decided not to do Watchmen prequels? Or did I dream that up?

I wouldn't be upset if they made prequels/sequels/whatever as long as it's good. If it's not, it won't be remembered and thrown out of continuity anyways.

Apparently, Levitz made it clear it would never happen. Now, Levitz is gone from office and has been replaced, and it looks like that policy may not be shared with the new kids on the block

 

[Karelia]

Apparently, Levitz made it clear it would never happen. Now, Levitz is gone from office and has been replaced, and it looks like that policy may not be shared with the new kids on the block

Thanks for clearing that up, Tron. t: Appreciated much.

 

[Kurosawa]

Moore is an egomaniac although I find myself agreeing with him at times and he's done more than his share of great stuff. The industry has coped his Watchmen for years, and some of his comments about regretting that it led to comics becoming so dark I completely agree with. I don't agree with him that there is no top-flight talent, but it is limited to a few guys and I would say there's more artists than writers around nowadays that impress me....although there aren't a ton of artists whose work stands out to me to where I know who it is the second I see it-but there's a few. Morrison, Brubaker and Rucka are all about as good writers as I've ever read, and I've read everyone from Golden Age-on.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Which surprises me, really. I find it kind of weird how most comic fans seem to be "Anti-creator!" when it comes to this stuff. And I have a feeling fans will treat Morrison the same way after a few years. I mean, Alan Moore wrote Miracleman, Swamp Thing, V For Vendetta, Watchmen, Promethea, Top 10, LXG, Supreme, From Hell and so many more GREAT comics. And then all of a sudden, it's like "Oh that Alan Moore guy...he's sooo overrated!"

Give Morrison a few years and it'll be "All-Star Superman is so overrated!" or some such nonsense. However, I will say that I like how Moore is humble about his work and how he treats it, as opposed to Morrison, atleast in some of the interviews I've read, who seems to be "IM WRITING THE GREATEST. BATMAN. STORY. EVER!!"

And I love it how he rips into Marvel and DC all the time, it's just funny to me because when you read the interviews, he sounds incredibly pissed, but when you see him talk about this stuff, he's very relaxed and calm and cool.

I also bow to Moore's ability to ignore the mighty dollar and just do his thing.

I'm going to have to disagree on this post on a few levels.

First, not everyone who disagrees with Moore's views automatically dismisses his work. Yes, admittedly, some do, but most responses I've read start along the lines of "Moore is a genius, he's written some of the greatest comics of all time, but...", then proceed to disagree or criticise his recent attitude and behaviour. I've commented that a lot of his more recent work feels a bit cold and distant, or a bit heavy-handed in presenting itself as The Way Comics Should Be, but his earlier work remains brilliant, and I won't deny that just because I disagree with some of his views.

Also, I don't think it's just outright blind denial to acknowledge any of his points. I agree with a lot of the things he says. Sequels and prequels to Watchmen would be an awful idea. But some of his views come across as paranoid and a bit egocentric.

Which brings me to my disagreement with your "Moore's humble about his work" comments. The criticism Moore is recieving for the most part isn't about his opposition to the exploitation of Watchmen, but rather his claim that not a single comic in 25 years has managed to touch the brilliance of Watchmen, and that the comics industry is utterly devoid of "top-flight, middle-flight or even bottom-flight talent" since he left.

 

[Mystirious]

Is Moore contradicting himself here, or is this just a bit of him being tongue-in-cheek?

Some of those tweets were hilarious from the other comic book creators.

I Simone and Aaron's

 

[yenaled]

The idea that Moore is humble in anyway it utterly incorrect. He's always in indie-press over here ranting on about the death of comic books as a medium and that he thinks the music, art and poetry he does is much more symbolic and meaningful to a world.

He's a drug-riddled, paranoid loony - who writes some pretty damn good comics. The biggest mistake Moore ever made was thinking the world was going to stand still for him - remember his biggest complaint about DC's handling of Watchmen is they gave it a graphic novel and kept it published (maybe the first comic book to get that treatment).