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My THOUGHTS on my BOUGHTS... October 19, 2011

You did. It should be:

Chris Buchner
Keith Murphey
Johnny Lowe

(Ironically, the more complex names you got right)

You also combined the credits for "Metamorphosis" and "Tall Tale Heroes."
 
Nice to see no real "young heroes" books in the works after Youth in revolt. WTG Marvel. Marvel has no guts with these stories, DC does.

The irony is you could almost see that from Marvel's NYCC announcements.

I mean, DC's NEW 52 isn't EXACTLY new. Aside for a few instances, most of them are just relaunches of franchises that have been in print since the 1930's, 40's, and 50's. Many of them have the same creators involved who have been with DC for anywhere from 2-25 years, or longer. Yet DC sold it well enough as something new that the pitch seemed to work, at least for September 2011. I imagine a few of those New 52 will do okay after. There's no reason why half of them can't sell consistently.

Marvel's immediate answer? More FEAR ITSELF epilogues and spin-off's. More Spider-Man spin-off's, including dusting off a SCARLET SPIDER title since '95. Another spare Wolverine mini. Shuffling some decks with the X-Men, again. While a few of the announcements are fine for me, on the whole it seems like "more of the same". Given how Marvel was still #1 in a shrinking market, maybe that's wise for now; the New 52 could still massively backfire, or underwhelm in the long term. But for the MOMENT, in terms of promotion, Marvel is looking a bit old and tired outside their film division.

Academy's still being pushed but other than those I think the only thing that'll sell decently enough to support an ongoing would be a Young Avengers book with a decent team on them. As much as I loved the Initiative they just don't sell books on their own.

And a random Initiative thought... Trauma should join the Runaways. He's the son of a villain and would be awesome paired with Nico Minoru :up:

AVENGERS ACADEMY is still selling so I think Marvel will funnel a few of their younger characters there. Hence why the RUNAWAYS will guest star, and all that.

You did. It should be:

Chris Buchner
Keith Murphey
Johnny Lowe

(Ironically, the more complex names you got right)

You also combined the credits for "Metamorphosis" and "Tall Tale Heroes."

Wow, sorry. I guess it shows how little sleep I got that week. I'll edit at Examiner. :(
 
I like the guts DC has to throw out books en masse that may not make it. I mean a mr. terrific ongoing?
 
Seriously, you could look at DC's title list and just pick out the ones that are almost destined to fail.
 
Thanks for the EPIC review, Dread! I'm sure Tyler would appreciate it. :)
 
BATMAN #2

Sometimes, success is well deserved. Such was the case for Batman #1, the relaunch of the iconic DC series by writer Scott Snyder and artist Greg Capullo. When the sales figures for September came in, Batman stood proudly as the highest selling of all DC’s New 52 #1s, and as I said, it was well deserved. In terms of quality, Batman #1 was one of the very best titles I read, meeting the high expectations I had for the comic. And the comic did its job as a jumping-on point for new readers perhaps better than any other title in the relaunch: with its accessible story and succinct recap of the Batman mythology, this was a comic that could appeal to someone perhaps only familiar with the character through the Christopher Nolan movies, deciding to pick up a comic for the first time. With such a successful first issue, the question on many’s lips may be, “Does Batman #2 maintain the quality of the first issue?” Having read the comic, I have to report that no, it doesn’t. Batman #2 surpasses the first issue!

I think it’s clear that, and I mean this in the most complimentary way possible, Scott Snyder is someone who is very good at talking. From his eloquent interviews and Twitter sprees where he is able to masterfully get right to the thematic core of his upcoming projects in a way that builds the maximum level of excitement from readers, to the poetic, world-building, character-defining voiceovers and monologues he has become well known for unfolding over the course of his issues, Snyder has proven himself to be a master wordsmith. But with Batman #2, Snyder displays another highly important skill for a comic writer: knowing when not to talk, when to shut up and let your artist do the talking for you.

Batman #2 is very much a comic based around action, with Snyder setting up not one, but two breathtaking action set-pieces: one a high-speed pursuit involving a helicopter, a train, and the Batcycle, and the other a nerve-wracking fight sequence that takes place during a midair death plummet. What gives each the frenzied sense of motion that makes it “breathtaking” is the stage direction of one Greg Capullo, who delivered some quality work last issue, but really hits his stride with pinache here. Capullo is a master of shaping and laying out panels in a way that makes it feel like you’re not reading a series of still images, but are instead immersed in something that’s vibrant, in motion.

But it’s not just in his crafting of action that Capullo excels. There are all kinds of small moments where I found myself impressed by Capullo’s technique. One great panel, looking up at Commissioner Gordon through the gaping hole in a murder victim’s chest, is one of the most gruesomely inventive shot angles I’ve seen in a comic in some time. Really, the whole creative team gets to shine here. Once again, Jonathan Glapion gets to have fun with some heavy blacks, from Gotham’s skyline cast into ominous silhouette, to a pair of sinister owl’s eyes glowing from the shadow behind an ambulance window. Colorist FCO Plascenia also gets to flex his muscles, creating an unusual vibe for a Batman comic where the majority of the comic takes place in bright, harsh sunlight. This is just a stylish comic.

But don’t worry, Snyder still gets some of those nice words in there too. Right from the opening pages, Snyder continues his sterling work in shaping Gotham City as a pivotal character in its own right, using the city’s history to shape its identity, while also setting up a suspenseful scenario that keeps the tension up throughout the issue. This really is a relentlessly paced comic, and like I mentioned above, action packed. But it’s still very much about character.

Batman is so iconic, that it can often be easy for writers – even in good stories – to overlook him as a character. They’ll give personality to the supporting figures surrounding him, while Bruce Wayne himself simply remains an unwavering constant. “I’m Batman,” as almost become an all-purposes adjective for the character, a shorthand for actually presenting him as a human being. Not so, here. Snyder is not intimidated by the back catalogue, or the iconic status, and cuts right through it all to give us a story that is very much about Batman as a character. That “I’m always one step ahead and have planned and prepared for everything” quality that much of Morrison’s classic work with the character has been a celebration of is here warped into a kind of hubris, an inability to admit there is a threat in Gotham beyond his understanding that may prove to be his undoing. We’re in the early stages of that development here, but you get a sense it’ll come further into play later, and I’m fascinated to see where Snyder is going with this.

There are a couple of minor quibbles. Prospective mayor Lincoln March is an interesting character, and gets a nice monologue laying out the parallels between himself and Bruce Wayne, but as far as “I’m totally a good guy – honest!” characters go, he’s about as trustworthy as Tommy Elliott, and unless Snyder plans to subvert those expectations about him inevitably turning out to be a bad apple, this is a character whose role feels a bit heavily telegraphed. But that’s a small niggle, and there’s plenty more in the comic that’s executed to perfection.

One small beat I was particularly fond of comes during the autopsy scene, with a seemingly throwaway line from Gordon to Batman, regarding how Bruce Wayne will be protected from the death threat made against him: “I take it you’re keeping an eye on him.” This is a line that works on three levels. At its most basic level, it works as simply Gordon acknowledging that Batman is a guy who’s always well prepared. On a deeper level, for those familiar with recent events in the Batman franchise, it’s an acknowledgement of Bruce Wayne going public as the spearheading figure behind Batman Inc. And, of course, on the deepest level, it’s giving a nod to the idea (revisited near the end of Snyder’s run on Detective) that Gordon is fully aware that Batman is Bruce Wayne, and pretends not to know simply to humor him and give himself plausible deniability. It’s a textbook example of how Snyder has achieved the ideal balance between making Batman accessible to new readers and rewarding to longtime readers.

Two issues in, and I’m already imagining the complete, 11-chapter graphic novel collecting this saga joining the canon of classic Batman stories – alongside Snyder’s Black Mirror, might I add. The pacing is careful and deliberate, with some cards still being held close to the chest, but you get a sense that Snyder knows exactly where he is going, and that the pace and the stakes will continue to escalate with each passing installment. Furthermore, this is a comic that looks simply stunning, with Greg Capullo and his artistic collaborators giving us one of the slickest looking titles of the New 52. It’s a good thing that this is the most read comic of all the New 52, as few titles out there showcase all that’s great about DC – and comics in general – better than this one.
 
Nice to see no real "young heroes" books in the works after Youth in revolt. WTG Marvel. Marvel has no guts with these stories, DC does.

Did you see how horrible Youth in Revolt and Young Allies sold?
 
They didn't sell well, but we will never know what kind of sales really constitute a loss of money to Marvel.

It's also true that some books that have started slow, gained strength and readers with time and build a core base.

Marvel shouldn't expect killer sales from Young Allies....if they did they were fools. If your gonna start a book, give it a few arcs or about 18 issues minimum.

That's basically the "risk" I'm asking for. Even still , a book like NOVA or GOTG selling 35k it still makes sense to me to keep the book out there and maybe change the creative staff and artist rather than nix the book. Those books had a core.
 
The Young Avengers are supposedly getting a new direction after Children's Crusade ends next January. Also, Wolverine and the X-Men, like Avengers Academy, will feature kids again.
 
Marvel shouldn't expect killer sales from Young Allies....if they did they were fools. If your gonna start a book, give it a few arcs or about 18 issues minimum.

LOL! Young Allies #6 and S.W.O.R.D. #5 finished with 11,000 copies ordered. Doctor Voodoo #5 finished with 12,000 copies. It's not that Marvel expected killer sales from these books, it's that these books sold horrifically. And they dropped hard too. It's not like Avengers Academy, the Marvel Cosmic books, or X-Factor where the audience is small, but dedicated. There was never an audience to begin with and those that did check out those books left fast.

If a book sells terribly right from the get go you don't continue to support it period. Asking for a few arcs or 18 issues minimum for books that don't show any stability is just ridiculous. And in my opinion, Marvel should be cancelling more books right now.
 
The books (i.e. Youth in Revolt) sold poorly because a crappy crossover that Marvel is still jamming down our throats was applied wholly to those books and what the books should have been about was completely lost.
 
Crossovers generally tend to boost sales, actually. I know no one seems to like them anymore, but the sales charts suggest that events do still sell comics.
 
I guess we just disagree how to market and build new products, not seeing anybody win this one.
 
Crossovers generally tend to boost sales, actually. I know no one seems to like them anymore, but the sales charts suggest that events do still sell comics.

The mere fact that Fear Itself was completely unable to boost sales of books like Herc, Black Panther, and Iron Man 2.0 and series like The Home Front and Youth in Revolt sold like total crap I think shows that most people are now experiencing event fatigue, at least on Marvel's end. After Avengers: Disassembled, House of M, Civil War, World War Hulk, Secret Invasion, Siege, Fear Itself, and the upcoming Phoenix event (along with various Spider-Man, X-Men, and Hulk crossovers) people are just tired of the constant shifts in the status quo, sub par quality, and far too many tie-in issues.
 
I guess we just disagree how to market and build new products, not seeing anybody win this one.

I think that Marvel needs to take a look at their entire line and give it some much needed trimming and focus. They need to take a look at which creative teams are starting to get stale and bring some fresh blood onto certain books. Also a price cut is needed, the $3.99 price point for all of their flagship titles is killing their lower tier titles.

Personally, I think that Marvel should do a pseudo-relaunch the way DC has with the New 52. Marvel doesn't need a reboot in continuity the way DC needed it, but it needs something to reinvigorate their line of comics.
 
Crossovers generally tend to boost sales, actually. I know no one seems to like them anymore, but the sales charts suggest that events do still sell comics.

Yes. I'm not the biggest Marvel fan anymore, but to their credit, they did try listening to fans' outcry, and said, "Right, we're not going to do big crossover events for a while, and are instead going to focus on each individual title being its own event." Fair enogh, in theory. But sales went down the toilet, and Marvel had to scramble to Fear Itself in an attempt to get people buying books again. Because, as much as many fans moan about hating them, there is a distinct demographic who will still blindly buy up every issue of any event Marvel puts in front of them and all the crossovers.
 
Yes. I'm not the biggest Marvel fan anymore, but to their credit, they did try listening to fans' outcry, and said, "Right, we're not going to do big crossover events for a while, and are instead going to focus on each individual title being its own event." Fair enogh, in theory. But sales went down the toilet, and Marvel had to scramble to Fear Itself in an attempt to get people buying books again. Because, as much as many fans moan about hating them, there is a distinct demographic who will still blindly buy up every issue of any event Marvel puts in front of them and all the crossovers.
I think if they treat events the way they treated Siege and Flashpoint, with few high quality tie-ins, it'll end up being a success. Events like Fear Itself which are promoted to have a bevy of tie-ins and most of them suck, it's going to bomb, especially with the lower tier titles.
 
Yeah, this was the first event that I didn't buy a majority of the crossovers. I bought all of them for House of M, Civil War, and Secret Invasion (save one). I got maybe 90% of Siege's because there weren't too many and they tied in closely.

Come Fear Itself I bought the main mini and the ongoing books I already buy. The only thing "new" that I tried was Iron Man 2.0 for Iron Fist, the Monkey King oneshot (because I was mistaken and thought it followed up on Iron Man 2.0) and the first 3 issues of Youth in Revolt. That's a signifigant drop and I'm not even sure if I'm going to finish the New Mutants arc (one more issue to go).

Marvel's been milking their buyers hard core for a few years now and I'm real bored of it. I buy too much of their product as is - I'm not buying any more for the sake of an event.
 
I'm in the same boat as you. I bought The Home Front and Youth in Revolt minis along with Uncanny X-Force and Deadpool because I buy those books regularly. Asides from those, the only Fear Itself tie-ins I bought were already part of ongoings that I was already buying. Far different from when I bought everything of an event like Civil War, World War Hulk, and Siege. I used to love events because it gave me an opportunity to try out new titles.

Now, I just don't give a crap because Marvel feels like Fear Itself: Fearsome Four, Fear Itself: The Monkey King, and Fear Itself: Hulk vs. Dracula are great ideas for tie-ins and the quality of books like Heroes for Hire, Black Panther, Iron Man 2.0, Herc, Invincible Iron Man, Uncanny X-Men, Thunderbolts, Hulk, etc. dropped under the Fear Itself banner.
 
I think that Marvel needs to take a look at their entire line and give it some much needed trimming and focus. They need to take a look at which creative teams are starting to get stale and bring some fresh blood onto certain books. Also a price cut is needed, the $3.99 price point for all of their flagship titles is killing their lower tier titles.

Personally, I think that Marvel should do a pseudo-relaunch the way DC has with the New 52. Marvel doesn't need a reboot in continuity the way DC needed it, but it needs something to reinvigorate their line of comics.

One of the core issues that needs to be ironed out is what the comic book profits are, and what is there role (or priority) at Marvel.

I say Priority, because with Disney and Marvel Films, the comic books represent so little...they could almost be written off as advertising for movies and products.

How much do "unsuccessful titles" hurt the company?

We wont get any answers about these issues any time soon. It's hard to get a straight answer how much movies make for profit.

I can't even be sure that a 12,000 selling comic is actually going to be a loss. I mean some 3rd party books that have been going for 30 years don't sell that.

I generally agree with what your saying on a refit of the books, IMO though I would trim in different areas.

The price is something I am 100 percent in agreement. Marvel's plan here doesnt even follow simple economics.
 
One of the core issues that needs to be ironed out is what the comic book profits are, and what is there role (or priority) at Marvel.

I say Priority, because with Disney and Marvel Films, the comic books represent so little...they could almost be written off as advertising for movies and products.
But they still need to be profitable.

How much do "unsuccessful titles" hurt the company?

We wont get any answers about these issues any time soon. It's hard to get a straight answer how much movies make for profit.

I can't even be sure that a 12,000 selling comic is actually going to be a loss. I mean some 3rd party books that have been going for 30 years don't sell that.
I talked to someone who works in the industry and he pointed out that a lot of titles that DC published through their Vertigo line lose money. I think with the way Marvel and DC are run a 12,000 selling comic is a money loser for them.

I generally agree with what your saying on a refit of the books, IMO though I would trim in different areas.
It's not that a specific set of books needs trimming. I think that the entire Marvel line needs to be looked at, see what is excessive, see what works and what doesn't, see what books have stable audiences, etc.
 
But they still need to be profitable.


I talked to someone who works in the industry and he pointed out that a lot of titles that DC published through their Vertigo line lose money. I think with the way Marvel and DC are run a 12,000 selling comic is a money loser for them.


It's not that a specific set of books needs trimming. I think that the entire Marvel line needs to be looked at, see what is excessive, see what works and what doesn't, see what books have stable audiences, etc.

With the way you phrase that, the Marvel Line would be all Spider man and Wolverine Books. The Line is the product, and the product needs to have an experimental and risk taking set of books that break down thresholds.

I see it more as the profit of the line versus the profit of each book. It's the Model the NFL used for the success of it's league versus Baseball where each team essentially competes financially against each other. I'm taking about Revenue sharing and the strength of Marvel as a whole...

Which further extends to Movies, Toys, video games, etc...

Its OK for some comics ....maybe even A LOT of Marvel comics to lose money. Until we have access to those magic numbers, i don't think we can know.

I would personally think Marvel could keep these charity case books afloat longer.

I could go down the list of books that struggled for years in the 90s and 2000s , had down periods and cancellations and are now at least solid sellers.

I don't even know if a book like Thunderbolts or Deadpool would make it these days.
 
I think if they treat events the way they treated Siege and Flashpoint, with few high quality tie-ins, it'll end up being a success. Events like Fear Itself which are promoted to have a bevy of tie-ins and most of them suck, it's going to bomb, especially with the lower tier titles.
Fear Itself's main mini sucked, which is something they needed to correct long before they got to any issues concerning tie-ins.
 
One of the core issues that needs to be ironed out is what the comic book profits are, and what is there role (or priority) at Marvel.

I say Priority, because with Disney and Marvel Films, the comic books represent so little...they could almost be written off as advertising for movies and products.

How much do "unsuccessful titles" hurt the company?

We wont get any answers about these issues any time soon. It's hard to get a straight answer how much movies make for profit.

I can't even be sure that a 12,000 selling comic is actually going to be a loss. I mean some 3rd party books that have been going for 30 years don't sell that.

I generally agree with what your saying on a refit of the books, IMO though I would trim in different areas.

The price is something I am 100 percent in agreement. Marvel's plan here doesnt even follow simple economics.

This is something I've been saying for a long long time.

Marvel's problem is they're running the company strictly like a business. I know that sounds funny cause marvel is a business, but follow me for a moment. They're running things like they produce sprockets or something. You try a few things, get rid of anything underperforming and double down on anything that seems to do ok. Going for short term maximum profit. What they need to realize is they're creating art and art that is great, even if it doesn't sell well is ALWAYS successful long term in some form. Hell even something that's just ok can generate a massive profit. Blade had an interesting enough idea to produce three movies which have probably made enough of a profit to keep that series going for all time and still have plenty of money in the bank. They question they need to ask themselves is will they make the smart move and take a short term loss for a long term continuous gain? The answer is, sadly, always no.
 
I think if they treat events the way they treated Siege and Flashpoint, with few high quality tie-ins, it'll end up being a success. Events like Fear Itself which are promoted to have a bevy of tie-ins and most of them suck, it's going to bomb, especially with the lower tier titles.
Flashpoint had a few tie ins? You're joking right?
 

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