NBA 2015-2016: Age of Exorbitant Television Money - Part 2

[Reek]

Put some respek on my name

when you spell respect right.

you know what's kind of sad?

Cleveland winning a championship is like giving a pig a diamond ring

ugh...anyway, its still Cleveland

enjoy your win, you still live in Ohio

yes, we know what is kind of sad.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Who? Jay Crawford is the only one I know who always reps.

I have mad respect for Jay Crawford, he's always been the stalwart Cleveland fan

 

[the last son]

 

[Matt]

I was also hoping to see Matt in here as well and what he had to say. The end of the season usually ends in some good ol' LBJ hate from him.

Speaking of hate, it's almost bittersweet that LeBron helping bring a title to Cleveland comes on Skip Bayless' last run on First Take, can't wait to see what nonsense he might throw out tomorrow

I'm around. I just wanted to watch Game of Thrones and Veep before bed so I went straight from watching the game to that.

Initial thoughts:

By and large the best NBA finals ever, in terms of suspense, narrative, all of it. That was truly a game 7 of legendary proportion.

My thoughts on Le*****...

I am mixed. On one hand, the dude deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He took an average team and personally carried them past the best team in the league. That's an impressive feat.

On the otherhand...doesn't it undercut all of the excuses? This is a guy who is still 3-4 in NBA Finals appearances and the common excuse was "he didn't have the help he needed." If this finals has proven anything, its this: he doesn't need the help. Draymond calling him a ***** just set him off and gave him the motivation to personally carry the team past the finish line. So now the question is: why hasn't he always played with that kind of fire? The story of Le*****'s career is that this series was the anomaly, not the norm, and what other all time great can you really say that about? If Le***** played with this sense of urgency and passion every time he was in the Finals he would be 5-2, AT LEAST. It basically took inevitable failure to get him to stop worrying about making a mistake, people hating on him, etc and just play the game to win. That is kind of a sad statement.

This is why I think, 30 years from now, when all the silliness about "haters" is gone, Le*****'s ultimate legacy is going to be a top 10 player who should be in the top 3 discussion but isn't, because he holds himself back.


Its also worth noting, that this win, while certainly great for Cleveland now, will be a bad thing long term. Its validated Le*****'s front office control. Even though the Cavs won IN SPITE OF the horrible front office moves throughout the season, it has been validated. Therefore, he will remain de facto GM, which is bad for the team as the East gets more competitive.

And this is the part where Cleveland fans say "one for us is like 5 for any other team." That may be so, I just don't get that mentality. Le***** showed last night that his prime ain't over yet. This is a team that, if managed properly, can win 2 or 3 more, while also building for the future. But for whatever bizarre reason, one is enough.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There is no world in which an NBA Finals Championship is a bad thing! Like I said before, I don't need the Cavaliers to be a dynasty. 1 is enough for me, especially given how that title was earned. I am spending lots and lots of moneyz on merchandise and making the trip to Cleveland Wednesday for the parade!

 

[Matt]

Your post is great. And as a fellow Steelers fan, I must give you even more respect. I agree but this championship here is tangible. The sheer good will, good publicity, and historical significance of Cleveland finally winning a championship negates Wiggins. I'd even go as far as saying that even if Wiggins becomes a top 3 player in the next decade, all stated above will soften the blow tremendously.

Now if Golden State won tonight, you'd be right on the money 100%.

I dunno, maybe. Maybe it is a sad reflection of how pathetic Cleveland is (as I discussed in my previous post). To have the mentality that one championship is to them what 5 are worth to another team is a reflection what losers the city has become. A true competitor would never say "I am good winning one." Yet that is the city's mentality as a whole. That was the rational behind the Wiggins trade and what will be used to justify it. To me it is just kind of pathetic. I think to most outsiders it is kind of pathetic. But I guess that is just Cleveland?

I'll disagree with you there. It doesn't matter how weak the East was. The best team in the league is the team that wins the NBA Championship. Cleveland beat the the greatest regular season team in NBA history and overcame a 3-1 deficit. That will always outshine how bad the East was during this season and why it'll never get brought up often.

Tell that to Peyton Manning. You cannot talk about his legacy without hearing about the weakness of the NFL in 2006 and the fact that he was carried to a title this year.

I agree, right now, it doesn't matter because right now is not about logic. There is an emotional component. 20 years down the line, when talking legacy and comparing Le***** to other greats, it will matter. Remember, one of the biggest knocks on Jordan is that he did it in an era that lacked a true competitive counterpart (Magic had Larry and vice-versa, for example). But while there may not have been a single player who dominated like Jordan, there were good teams. The Rockets, the Magic, the Jazz, Barkley's Suns, the Sonics, the Ewing Knicks, the Pistons, etc. Meanwhile, Le***** is in an era where there is just no competition in his conference and he still hasn't even gotten it done half the time (where as MJ got it done every time). To say that isn't part of his narrative...I think, with all due respect, that is really short sighted. Its absolutely part of the story.

 

[Matt]

There is no world in which an NBA Finals Championship is a bad thing! Like I said before, I don't need the Cavaliers to be a dynasty. 1 is enough for me, especially given how that title was earned. I am spending lots and lots of moneyz on merchandise and making the trip to Cleveland Wednesday for the parade!

I just don't get that mentality, man. See my above post to Warhammer. I just can't understand that mentality on any level. It is just so pathetic. It is like a sweet, innocent dog (albeit, that dog is Cleveland, so an ugly, old, broken dog) whose owner kicks it 9 out of 10 times they are together...but the dog remains completely loyal and happy so long as it gets the occasional pat on the head and bone. Its just....for lack of better wording (and you're my boy so don't take this wrong, its not a shot at you, its a shot at the city's collective mentality)...its just sad.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I just don't get that mentality, man. See my above post to Warhammer. I just can't understand that mentality on any level. It is just so pathetic. It is like a sweet, innocent dog (albeit, that dog is Cleveland, so an ugly, old, broken dog) whose owner kicks it 9 out of 10 times they are together...but the dog remains completely loyal and happy so long as it gets the occasional pat on the head and bone. Its just....for lack of better wording (and you're my boy so don't take this wrong, its not a shot at you, its a shot at the city's collective mentality)...its just sad.

Sports wise, we definitely have been an abused fan base by basically all 3 teams. But in the end, you just gotta cherish the moments when you get them. Especially up here, where we know full well, these opportunities don't come often. Not even just the fact they won the Finals, but they defied all odds by doing it and had to slay an impossible dragon in the process, when said dragon had them dead to rights. What the Cavs did was special. It was a great victory!

 

[Matt]

Sports wise, we definitely have been an abused fan base by basically all 3 teams. But in the end, you just gotta cherish the moments when you get them. Especially up here, where we know full well, these opportunities don't come often. Not even just the fact they won the Finals, but they defied all odds by doing it and had to slay an impossible dragon in the process, when said dragon had them dead to rights. What the Cavs did was special. It was a great victory!

But that's like saying, "we're in a war, so let's be content to build an army that is capable of winning one battle and then going back to 50 + years of obscurity."

Pittsburgh Pirates were ****. Right before they turned the corner, you have fans staging walkouts with regularity. You had boycotts. You had calls for change of ownership. The ownership only got serious about competing (rather than just trading away any assets and running the team for as cheap as possible) when the fans walked (which led to talk of the MLB forcing a sale). If you don't accept it, it won't be the reality. But the city as a whole is like a battered wife. Just content to make excuses and keep coming back so long as they tell you they love you and give you the occasional gift. Its just something I cannot comprehend.

 

[Spider-Fan]

But that's like saying, "we're in a war, so let's be content to build an army that is capable of winning one battle and then going back to 50 + years of obscurity."

Pittsburgh Pirates were ****. Right before they turned the corner, you have fans staging walkouts with regularity. You had boycotts. You had calls for change of ownership. The ownership only got serious about competing (rather than just trading away any assets and running the team for as cheap as possible) when the fans walked (which led to talk of the MLB forcing a sale). If you don't accept it, it won't be the reality. But the city as a whole is like a battered wife. Just content to make excuses and keep coming back so long as they tell you they love you and give you the occasional gift. Its just something I cannot comprehend.

It's a different mind set because Pittsburgh teams are used to being champions. Cleveland teams are under dogs, so we don't look at it the same way. Even our team that finally beat the 52 year streak was a massive under dog the entire series. Kind of poetic in that way.

 

[Matt]

It's a different mind set because Pittsburgh teams are used to being champions. Cleveland teams are under dogs, so we don't look at it the same way. Even our team that finally beat the 52 year streak was a massive under dog the entire series. Kind of poetic in that way.

Its a different mindset because it is the one you guys settle for. Le***** took a **** on your city on national television 6 short years ago, and you can bet your ass would've never looked back if he didn't see a team with young talent (Kyrie) and the number one overall pick (trade leverage) giving him a better chance to win for HIMSELF than Miami. You are now going to build a statue of him and throw him a parade. He won your city a title, great. But if you don't respect yourself, no one else will.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Its a different mindset because it is the one you guys settle for. Le***** took a **** on your city on national television 6 short years ago, and you can bet your ass would've never looked back if he didn't see a team with young talent (Kyrie) and the number one overall pick (trade leverage) giving him a better chance to win for HIMSELF than Miami. You are now going to build a statue of him and throw him a parade. He won your city a title, great. But if you don't respect yourself, no one else will.

No doubt the younger talent in Cleveland was a bigger draw than the aging talen in Miami. I don't think there is any denying that. But, I don't see celebrating the accomplishment as somehow us not having respect for ourselves. Not having respect for ourselves is selling out Browns games despite the fact no team has lost more games since 1999 than they have. This Cavs team did something never done in the history of the NBA. They deserve our respect and earned that parade. Regardless of why LeBron actually came back, you cannot deny what was accomplished. They beat a 73-9 team, when down 3-1 in a Finals series, including winning twice on their home court. They made the 1st unanimous MVP ever look like the 3rd best player in the series. All the respect coming the Cavs and LeBron's way was earned here.

 

[JaD]

I'm around. I just wanted to watch Game of Thrones and Veep before bed so I went straight from watching the game to that.

Initial thoughts:

By and large the best NBA finals ever, in terms of suspense, narrative, all of it. That was truly a game 7 of legendary proportion.

My thoughts on Le*****...

I am mixed. On one hand, the dude deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He took an average team and personally carried them past the best team in the league. That's an impressive feat.

On the otherhand...doesn't it undercut all of the excuses? This is a guy who is still 3-4 in NBA Finals appearances and the common excuse was "he didn't have the help he needed." If this finals has proven anything, its this: he doesn't need the help. Draymond calling him a ***** just set him off and gave him the motivation to personally carry the team past the finish line. So now the question is: why hasn't he always played with that kind of fire? The story of Le*****'s career is that this series was the anomaly, not the norm, and what other all time great can you really say that about? If Le***** played with this sense of urgency and passion every time he was in the Finals he would be 5-2, AT LEAST. It basically took inevitable failure to get him to stop worrying about making a mistake, people hating on him, etc and just play the game to win. That is kind of a sad statement.

This is why I think, 30 years from now, when all the silliness about "haters" is gone, Le*****'s ultimate legacy is going to be a top 10 player who should be in the top 3 discussion but isn't, because he holds himself back.


Its also worth noting, that this win, while certainly great for Cleveland now, will be a bad thing long term. Its validated Le*****'s front office control. Even though the Cavs won IN SPITE OF the horrible front office moves throughout the season, it has been validated. Therefore, he will remain de facto GM, which is bad for the team as the East gets more competitive.

And this is the part where Cleveland fans say "one for us is like 5 for any other team." That may be so, I just don't get that mentality. Le***** showed last night that his prime ain't over yet. This is a team that, if managed properly, can win 2 or 3 more, while also building for the future. But for whatever bizarre reason, one is enough.

You really are quite the optimist, huh? Well, I was certainly looking forward to seeing what positive words you would write about this and you didn't let me down. And I see your psychic abilities are still working in knowing what was conflicting and pushing James all these years and the Cavs locker room to push back in this series. Coming back from 3-1 on a 73 win team that was clearly a better team overall and you still believe he's capable of doing it all by himself or that it's bad long-term? That's pure insanity, dude.

Even the greatest players to have ever played the game had their own story play out a certain way and didn't win a championship every year or every time they reached the Finals. You win some, you lose some, sheesh. And "he doesn't need help?" Are you for real? Nothing about the championship is easy and LeBron doesn't walk on water. Did you not see all those players crying and coach Lue breaking down on the bench alone when the buzzer sounded? When was the last time you've ever seen that in the end of a Finals championship? Whew, you must hate sports, man.

And is there any particular reason you're spelling LeBron's first name Le*****? And what happened to your red letters? Did Le***** take that from you too?

 

[spiderman2]

I'm around. I just wanted to watch Game of Thrones and Veep before bed so I went straight from watching the game to that.

Initial thoughts:

By and large the best NBA finals ever, in terms of suspense, narrative, all of it. That was truly a game 7 of legendary proportion.

My thoughts on Le*****...

I am mixed. On one hand, the dude deserves a hell of a lot of credit. He took an average team and personally carried them past the best team in the league. That's an impressive feat.

On the otherhand...doesn't it undercut all of the excuses? This is a guy who is still 3-4 in NBA Finals appearances and the common excuse was "he didn't have the help he needed." If this finals has proven anything, its this: he doesn't need the help. Draymond calling him a ***** just set him off and gave him the motivation to personally carry the team past the finish line. So now the question is: why hasn't he always played with that kind of fire? The story of Le*****'s career is that this series was the anomaly, not the norm, and what other all time great can you really say that about? If Le***** played with this sense of urgency and passion every time he was in the Finals he would be 5-2, AT LEAST. It basically took inevitable failure to get him to stop worrying about making a mistake, people hating on him, etc and just play the game to win. That is kind of a sad statement.

This is why I think, 30 years from now, when all the silliness about "haters" is gone, Le*****'s ultimate legacy is going to be a top 10 player who should be in the top 3 discussion but isn't, because he holds himself back.


Its also worth noting, that this win, while certainly great for Cleveland now, will be a bad thing long term. Its validated Le*****'s front office control. Even though the Cavs won IN SPITE OF the horrible front office moves throughout the season, it has been validated. Therefore, he will remain de facto GM, which is bad for the team as the East gets more competitive.

And this is the part where Cleveland fans say "one for us is like 5 for any other team." That may be so, I just don't get that mentality. Le***** showed last night that his prime ain't over yet. This is a team that, if managed properly, can win 2 or 3 more, while also building for the future. But for whatever bizarre reason, one is enough.

Best NBA finals ever lol not even close. There was only one really close game and like 5 of the 7 games where blow outs. James should be at least 5-2 in the finals? Get out of hear even Jordan would only be 4-3 in the finals with the teams James had. The only NBA finals you can hold against him was the Dallas one. The first finals he made with the Cavs it was amazing he even made the finals that year. He had to take over to even get there and the Spurs where such a better team to the point he had like zero chances to win. That Cavs team may be the worst team to ever make the NBA finals. When he lost in the NBA finals vs Spurs in 2014 he played great but the spurs where just the flat out better team and both Wade and Bosh didn't have a good finals. Last year when he lost he didn't have love or Kyrie Irving.

So you are telling me he should have beat the spurs in 2014 even though the Spurs won in 5 games and blew them out in like ever game even with James playing great? James was suppose to win when he had like the worst team in NBA history to make the finals? James was suppose to win with out his second and 3erd best players last year? Man people hate on James for the most stupidest things. You can make the cause that James should be 4-3 in the finals but any thing above that no just no. You could even make the cause that James should be 2-5 in the finals or 3-4 like he is because the only reason he won this year is because Curry pulled a James 2011 NBA finals. If Curry was even ok GS would have won and James would be 2-5 instead of 3-4. Or you could say maybe GS losing because of Curry like Heat losing because of James in 2011 cancels each other out and there for James should be 3-4 like he is.

 

[JaD]

Sports wise, we definitely have been an abused fan base by basically all 3 teams. But in the end, you just gotta cherish the moments when you get them. Especially up here, where we know full well, these opportunities don't come often. Not even just the fact they won the Finals, but they defied all odds by doing it and had to slay an impossible dragon in the process, when said dragon had them dead to rights. What the Cavs did was special. It was a great victory!

Cavaliers have only been to the Finals 3 times too, right? They finally got (a special) one in their 46 year history and there's still room for people to bash the man who is largely responsible for helping deliver the title. The city that never wins anything still can't catch a break from some, heh. But I'm real happy for him and people of Ohio. Great for them and I think it was beautiful to see all that emotion in the end. Even coach Lue was a wreck on the bench for a few minutes. Have fun at the parade, and share some pics

 

[TheCommissioner]

Cleveland burnt this mans jersey in the streets and put it on YouTube

history will not remember that kindly once the shine leaves your ONLY championship win

 

[Hunter Rider]

Ok fellas lets put an ice cube in this fire water you're all spewing at each other.

I have no idea who this guy is you're arguing about but spell his name correctly and let the discussion be a civil one.

 

[Logan0327]

 

[Matt]

Ok fellas lets put an ice cube in this fire water you're all spewing at each other.

I have no idea who this guy is you're arguing about but spell his name correctly and let the discussion be a civil one.

In fairness, the whole Le***** thing is part of the ongoing storyline of this Finals. In Game 4, Draymond Green called him "*****" on the court, which resulted in James crying to the media about how he wasn't even really upset about being fouled, he was upset that he was called "*****." Its not like it is being pulled out of no where. He opened himself up to it when he held a press conference talking about how he got his feelings hurt by another player.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Any big trade predictions during the draft?

 

[Matt]

Any big trade predictions during the draft?

There's talk that D'Angelo Russell could be moved in exchange for a top 5 pick. Personally, I don't think the Lakers are getting a top 5 pick for him. Kobe's retirement tour kinda stunted Russell's development and has a lot of people throwing around the dreaded B-word (bust). I think that hurts his value. He's actually in a weird place. After one season (in which he was intentionally sidelined so as to let Kobe say goodbye), it would be premature to call him a bust. On the other hand, he handled the situation very poorly and didn't really show the potential that you'd expect from the second overall pick. Plus the situation with the Lakers seems pretty unsalvagable, so I get why there'd be a desire to move him.

I dunno. If I were a GM, I wouldn't gamble a top 5 pick on him, if there is someone I like more on the draft board or if there is a better offer for it.

 

[raisethe3]

I knew having a healthy Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love would've made a difference.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Cavs probably win last year if those guys are healthy.

 

[Matt]

Cavs probably win last year if those guys are healthy.

I call ******** on that. It seems to be the narrative being passed around by the sports media today. I call ********. Look at the first four games of this series. Cavs were outmatched on every level. Draymond Green doesn't get suspended, Cavs never regain momentum, lose in five. No one is saying that. Instead, we are not only anointing the Cavs, we are trying to diminish what the Warriors did last year.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Can we at least agree it goes 7? I think the Cavs would have had a legitimate shot.