NBA 2015-2016: Age of Exorbitant Television Money - Part 2

[Matt]

Can we at least agree it goes 7? I think the Cavs would have had a legitimate shot.

I really don't know. Maybe. So much of basketball, like any sport, is momentum. Cavs really didn't have a lot going into last year's championship. They walked through a weak East. Meanwhile, Warriors had to fight through the West. I think that made them mentally tough and I think we were in a similar situation this year. Cavs came into the playoffs cold, with no momentum. Momentum was given to them when they are able to capitalize on an opportunity (Green's suspension) and run with it. So, would they have had that opportunity last year? I really don't know. And none of that speaks to the fact that Steph was playing hurt.

I think if you put the Cavs and the Warriors next to one another, the Warriors are the better team. In fact, if I could be named coach of any NBA team today, you bet your ass it would be the Warriors. But so much comes down to the intangible and the unpredictable. Its just hard to say. So in the end, what we know is that the Warriors won in 6 last season and the Cavs won in 7 this season.

 

[MyDudeSpidey]

Fight through the West? Um...OKC didn't make the playoffs, Spurs got knocked out in the first round, they swept New Orleans, beat an injured Grizzlies team, 4-1'd the Rockets, and then got taken to 6 games by the Cavs, who were a couple all stars short and who's 2nd best player in that series was Matthew Dellavedova.

 

[Matt]

All of which is still tougher than any competition Cleveland faced, coming out of the East. You can try to discredit the Warriors win last year all that you want. It doesn't change the fact that they got a ring, any more than saying Warriors would've won if Draymond didn't get suspended.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

There's talk that D'Angelo Russell could be moved in exchange for a top 5 pick. Personally, I don't think the Lakers are getting a top 5 pick for him. Kobe's retirement tour kinda stunted Russell's development and has a lot of people throwing around the dreaded B-word (bust). I think that hurts his value. He's actually in a weird place. After one season (in which he was intentionally sidelined so as to let Kobe say goodbye), it would be premature to call him a bust. On the other hand, he handled the situation very poorly and didn't really show the potential that you'd expect from the second overall pick. Plus the situation with the Lakers seems pretty unsalvagable, so I get why there'd be a desire to move him.

I dunno. If I were a GM, I wouldn't gamble a top 5 pick on him, if there is someone I like more on the draft board or if there is a better offer for it.

Agreed. I personally am not a fan of his. I really don't see any GM offering a top 5 pick for him.

I do think Okafor and Butler will be traded.

 

[Infinity9999x]

All of which is still tougher than any competition Cleveland faced, coming out of the East. You can try to discredit the Warriors win last year all that you want. It doesn't change the fact that they got a ring, any more than saying Warriors would've won if Draymond didn't get suspended.

Yeah, at the end of the day, both years each team had things going against them. But that's just the way of life. When you get down to it, you had two really good teams. And they've each beat each other once.

 

[Poetic Chaos]

Warriors should go after Horford.

 

[Matt]

Agreed. I personally am not a fan of his. I really don't see any GM offering a top 5 pick for him.

I do think Okafor and Butler will be traded.

Yeah, I really don't know how you move Russell at this point. I mean, his situation with the Lakers is, at best, a hostile one. I don't think it can be salvaged and I don't think either side wants to salvage it.

On the other hand, why pay much for him? If you have a top five draft pick, and there is no one on the board that you are feeling is a fit for your team, you can always move that pick for a helluva lot more than a potential draft bust. I mean, depending on the situation, a top 5 pick could conceivably trade for 2 or 3 future picks and a decent player. But the Lakers aren't going to give away the number 2 overall pick of last year's draft and a bunch of draft picks for a single first round pick. That would be insane.

I think the only option the Lakers have is to trade him for a mid-first round pick and swallow the loss. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Yeah, at the end of the day, both years each team had things going against them. But that's just the way of life. When you get down to it, you had two really good teams. And they've each beat each other once.

Yep. That is the situation we are looking at. I mean, sure, we can say if Love and Irving weren't suspended last year, Cavs would've been more competitive. We could also say if Steph wasn't playing hurt and Draymond was suspended, the Warriors would win in five. But they were and they didn't. That's really all that matters.

 

[Doc Samson]

There's talk that D'Angelo Russell could be moved in exchange for a top 5 pick. Personally, I don't think the Lakers are getting a top 5 pick for him. Kobe's retirement tour kinda stunted Russell's development and has a lot of people throwing around the dreaded B-word (bust). I think that hurts his value. He's actually in a weird place. After one season (in which he was intentionally sidelined so as to let Kobe say goodbye), it would be premature to call him a bust. On the other hand, he handled the situation very poorly and didn't really show the potential that you'd expect from the second overall pick. Plus the situation with the Lakers seems pretty unsalvagable, so I get why there'd be a desire to move him.

Completely disagree. Kobe didn't even play that many games this year, and when he did, usually he was on a minutes restriction.

Besides the fact that Shaq (and nobody else for that matter) laid out the red carpet for Kobe when he was a rookie, Byron Scott also saw Russell's immaturity long before the rest of the world and Nick Young. That's why he was on the bench.

 

[Matt]

Completely disagree. Kobe didn't even play that many games this year, and when he did, usually he was on a minutes restriction.

Besides the fact that Shaq (and nobody else for that matter) laid out the red carpet for Kobe when he was a rookie, Byron Scott also saw Russell's immaturity long before the rest of the world and Nick Young. That's why he was on the bench.

He was certainly an immature diva. But, I mean, Scott should've been more cognizant. Half of being a coach is being a psychiatrist and knowing how to handle each player's personality. Scott failed in that regard and the Lakers organization allowed Scott to fail. There is blame on both sides for the situation becoming as toxic as it has.

 

[Doc Samson]

After stewing and sleeping on the result last night, a few observations:

Steph Curry, as I've been saying, is a bad shot maker. People love to harp on guys who play "Iso/Hero-ball" and all that. Well Steph does it too, he just made a good amount of bad shots for two years. He was exposed to a certain degree, and he should have to expand his game on both ends of the floor before being considered the best in the world again.

How about some love for Kyrie? I know the nice story about LeBron and Cleveland is sexy, but man, Kyrie is cold blooded. Not many people in NBA history even think about taking that shot for all the marbles. Once again, it's a bad shot, but the man came through. Defensively I'll even eat some crow. He had a good amount of help, but he also had Steph to himself a lot of this series and outplayed him.

About LeBron, I'll say this: On my little insignificant all-time list, this series vaulted him up a great deal.

1) Kareem
2) MJ
3) Magic
4) Russell
5) Wilt
6) LeBron/Kobe (I know how important the Mamba was for those first 3, even if ya'll don't )
7) Duncan
8) Olajuwon
9) O'neal
10) Isiah

One more ring, and I'd give him Top 3. I'm no hater. As a skilled player, I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top. People get skill and talent confused. He's very talented as an overall player, with a passing mentality and size to rebound. But his skills, as far as shooting, dribbling, posting, all that comes and goes and he really doesn't excel at any of it. He is a jack of many trades though, and that does count for something.

Bottomline, he got it done, was assertive, and I enjoyed finally seeing that for a sustained amount of time. When he does that, yes, he's the King.

 

[Doc Samson]

He was certainly an immature diva. But, I mean, Scott should've been more cognizant. Half of being a coach is being a psychiatrist and knowing how to handle each player's personality. Scott failed in that regard and the Lakers organization allowed Scott to fail. There is blame on both sides for the situation becoming as toxic as it has.

Well certainly. I said from the start that Scott wasn't any sort of long term coach, he's never done well with young guys. Put him with a veteran squad and he'll be ok. But his style will never work with kids of this generation.

 

[Themanofbat]

Ok... seeing as Akron is home to Lux Interior of the Cramps, and DEVO, and Howard the Duck, I AM very happy they won, and everyone who's just crapping on Cleveland, especially the guys from Pittsburgh (you have the word "pitts" in your town for eff's sakes)... just stop it. It's dumb and immature. Be the bigger fan and congratulate their fans and their city.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

After stewing and sleeping on the result last night, a few observations:

Steph Curry, as I've been saying, is a bad shot maker. People love to harp on guys who play "Iso/Hero-ball" and all that. Well Steph does it too, he just made a good amount of bad shots for two years. He was exposed to a certain degree, and he should have to expand his game on both ends of the floor before being considered the best in the world again.

How about some love for Kyrie? I know the nice story about LeBron and Cleveland is sexy, but man, Kyrie is cold blooded. Not many people in NBA history even think about taking that shot for all the marbles. Once again, it's a bad shot, but the man came through. Defensively I'll even eat some crow. He had a good amount of help, but he also had Steph to himself a lot of this series and outplayed him.

About LeBron, I'll say this: On my little insignificant all-time list, this series vaulted him up a great deal.

1) Kareem
2) MJ
3) Magic
4) Russell
5) Wilt
6) LeBron/Kobe (I know how important the Mamba was for those first 3, even if ya'll don't )
7) Duncan
8) Olajuwon
9) O'neal
10) Isiah

One more ring, and I'd give him Top 3. I'm no hater. As a skilled player, I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top. People get skill and talent confused. He's very talented as an overall player, with a passing mentality and size to rebound. But his skills, as far as shooting, dribbling, posting, all that comes and goes and he really doesn't excel at any of it. He is a jack of many trades though, and that does count for something.

Bottomline, he got it done, was assertive, and I enjoyed finally seeing that for a sustained amount of time. When he does that, yes, he's the King.

Interesting.

 

[Doc Samson]

Indeed. Personally, I would put Olajuwon higher, just in terms of skill, which as I said before, is different than "talent" & career accomplishments. But encompassing all those things, I can't justify it. But it was close...

Duncan, IMO, had the most help of his generation. People love to talk about who played with who, and somehow that gets left out when talking about him. And I still don't think he's much better (if at all) than KG, but again, that goes to skill. If we're comparing everything, 5 rings is 5 rings.

And Shaq, while dominate offensively, never lead the league in rebounding or blocks. Not even once. And he was never DPOY, which for a Center of his size and magnitude, should've been a given.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Cavaliers have only been to the Finals 3 times too, right? They finally got (a special) one in their 46 year history and there's still room for people to bash the man who is largely responsible for helping deliver the title. The city that never wins anything still can't catch a break from some, heh. But I'm real happy for him and people of Ohio. Great for them and I think it was beautiful to see all that emotion in the end. Even coach Lue was a wreck on the bench for a few minutes. Have fun at the parade, and share some pics

I already got 2 shirts for myself, bought my dad one for father's day, and buying the blu ray. I am having a blast at the parade, you better believe it!

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Indeed. Personally, I would put Olajuwon higher, just in terms of skill, which as I said before, is different than "talent" & career accomplishments. But encompassing all those things, I can't justify it. But it was close...

Duncan, IMO, had the most help of his generation. People love to talk about who played with who, and somehow that gets left out when talking about him. And I still don't think he's much better (if at all) than KG, but again, that goes to skill. If we're comparing everything, 5 rings is 5 rings.

And Shaq, while dominate offensively, never lead the league in rebounding or blocks. Not even once. And he was never DPOY, which for a Center of his size and magnitude, should've been a given.

I figured 5 rings is why you put Duncan ahead of Hakeem, but I was surprised about Shaq, even if I agree with your rationale wholeheartedly. Most people would probably put Shaq ahead, but I've never been a big fan or got much enjoyment watching him play. I always felt he should have been much more dominant on the defensive end, particularly in the Orlando days when he was a pure athletic freak of nature. Hakeem is one of my 3 or 4 favorite players ever and was a beautiful marriage of athleticism and skill. His footwork rivaled Jordan and Kobe's imho. Duncan was just super solid in most aspects of the game across the board. If all three were available in the draft and I had the first pick I'd take Hakeem in an instant. Duncan #2 and Shaq #3.

 

[Doc Samson]

I would definitely do it in that order as well. I'm not sure why Hakeem doesn't get more love, but the man was silky smooth offensively and one of the best defensive players of all time. I actually don't like comparing perimeter players to big men, it's just a much different game between the two, but however I look at it, Olajuwon has to be in there somewhere.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I would definitely do it in that order as well. I'm not sure why Hakeem doesn't get more love, but the man was silky smooth offensively and one of the best defensive players of all time. I actually don't like comparing perimeter players to big men, it's just a much different game between the two, but however I look at it, Olajuwon has to be in there somewhere.

Absolutely, never understood it. Definitely feels to me that he's underrated.

 

[Tilapia]

Steph Curry stars in Titanic reboot, trailer here:

http://cavaliersnation.com/2016/06/18/top-10-hilarious-memes-from-game-6-of-nba-finals/7/

 

[runawayboulder]

Olajuwon was the best center in the 90's but if I'm putting together the best starting 5 (that I've seen in my era) I'm going with Shaq for the size, rebounding and defense. Then I'd put Malone at PF, Lebron at SF, Jordan at SG and Stockton at PG.

 

[Matt]

Olajuwon was the best center in the 90's but if I'm putting together the best starting 5 (that I've seen in my era) I'm going with Shaq for the size, rebounding and defense. Then I'd put Malone at PF, Lebron at SF, Jordan at SG and Stockton at PG.

Why is LeBron on your 90s era team?

If I am putting together a 90s era team, I'd take Barkley over Malone, Pippen at SF and Robinson over Hakeem or Shaq.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Olajuwon was the best center in the 90's but if I'm putting together the best starting 5 (that I've seen in my era) I'm going with Shaq for the size, rebounding and defense. Then I'd put Malone at PF, Lebron at SF, Jordan at SG and Stockton at PG.

Hakeem won the DPOY two times.

 

[spiderman2]

There's talk that D'Angelo Russell could be moved in exchange for a top 5 pick. Personally, I don't think the Lakers are getting a top 5 pick for him. Kobe's retirement tour kinda stunted Russell's development and has a lot of people throwing around the dreaded B-word (bust). I think that hurts his value. He's actually in a weird place. After one season (in which he was intentionally sidelined so as to let Kobe say goodbye), it would be premature to call him a bust. On the other hand, he handled the situation very poorly and didn't really show the potential that you'd expect from the second overall pick. Plus the situation with the Lakers seems pretty unsalvagable, so I get why there'd be a desire to move him.

I dunno. If I were a GM, I wouldn't gamble a top 5 pick on him, if there is someone I like more on the draft board or if there is a better offer for it.

Saying a guy is a Bust after one year is crazy and even more so when you are talking about a guy who is only 19. How many guys are great in there first year? Jordan, James maybe a few more. You have got to give him a few years and he had some good moments but like most really young players he was very up and down.

 

[spiderman2]

Absolutely, never understood it. Definitely feels to me that he's underrated.

Hakeem is the most underrated player in NBA history.

 

[spiderman2]

I figured 5 rings is why you put Duncan ahead of Hakeem, but I was surprised about Shaq, even if I agree with your rationale wholeheartedly. Most people would probably put Shaq ahead, but I've never been a big fan or got much enjoyment watching him play. I always felt he should have been much more dominant on the defensive end, particularly in the Orlando days when he was a pure athletic freak of nature. Hakeem is one of my 3 or 4 favorite players ever and was a beautiful marriage of athleticism and skill. His footwork rivaled Jordan and Kobe's imho. Duncan was just super solid in most aspects of the game across the board. If all three were available in the draft and I had the first pick I'd take Hakeem in an instant. Duncan #2 and Shaq #3.

I love Oneal has a player and a person but what hurts him is he didn't play at a high level for as long has some other players have. Even thought oneal was dominating he was lazy and if he wasn't lazy and keept off say 20lbs or so from what he got up to I think he could have played at a high level for around a extra 2-3 years and that would then up him on the greatest of all time list.