New Government

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Malice, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Malice BMFH

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought I would post this here...its would be ineteresting to hear.
    Please be serious and dont start spouting out go Communist! or just post links...post something interesting...

    if you were given a free hand to reshape the Federal Government or scrap it and start over, what would you do?
     
  2. Malice BMFH

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I personally gotta say the government that was described in the movie Starship Troopers. (I am filling in the gaps from what they described to what I kinda "see)

    There are two classes of people:
    Citizens - Those that have the right to vote
    Non-Citizens - Those that dont have the right to vote.

    All people start out in life, as a Non-Citizen. They are subject to the laws, but dont have the right to vote to change the laws. A Non-Citizen must perform public duty, which usually means joining the armed forces, to gain Citizenship.

    Then from there they gain the right to vote and also serve as a law-maker.

    This should shut up those up that comment but don't act. If they complain about the state of the union, and its problems, they have to serve, and can then have a voice.
     
  3. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2000
    Messages:
    80,956
    Likes Received:
    8
    I'm not sure I would change that much. I would reform it. Add term limits to Congress (1 term per Senator and 3 per Congressman. Keep things constantly changing) and possibly the Supreme Court as well, maybe even make the Supreme Court a matter of election. I'd definitely try and regulate campaign finance and the lobbyist system, though I'm not sure how much leeway could be made there.
     
  4. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2000
    Messages:
    80,956
    Likes Received:
    8
    Also, this is about as radical as I would go in revisions...I would strongly look into making the Executive Branch more than one President. Perhaps a Tribunal or something along those lines. When the founders first created the Executive Branch, its essential responsibility was war and treaties. It has grown into far more as time progressed. I think we should consider expanding it to allow more balance into the office.
     
  5. The Senator Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,290
    Likes Received:
    1
    Executive Branch

    The President of the United States would not be elected by the people. Instead, he or she would be the leader of the party in control of the House of Representatives. The Vice President would then be the leader of the party in control of the Senate. That system would avoid the two-year nonsense and waste of money that comes with nationwide Presidential campaigns. Considering Congressional elections take place every two years, Americans wouldn't be forced to live with the same President for 4-8 years.

    I would also install a six-year term limit on the Presidency. So, the President could be in charge for as little as two years or as many as six, depending on public sentiment.

    The President would still have a cabinet, would still live in the White House, would still be able to appoint justices and whatnot. So most of the same executive privileges would still exist.

    The Legislative Branch

    I wouldn't change much, except install term limits. Two terms for Senators (12 years in office), and eight terms for Congressmen (16 years).

    Reverting back to the Presidency, here's how things would play out in Congress.

    The House Majority Leader would be President, and the Senate Majority Leader would be Vice President. So, if this system was in place today, Steny Hoyer would be President, and Harry Reid would be Vice President.

    The Judicial Branch

    I would increase the number of Supreme Court Justices to fifteen. The current nine members would be permanent members of the court, whereas the other six would be appointed to fill out four-year terms.

    Bill of Rights

    FIRST AMENDMENT
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    SECOND AMENDMENT
    Congress will make no laws which infringe on a person's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, regardless of gender, race, creed, sexual orientation, nationality, age or personal identity.

    THIRD AMENDMENT
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    FOURTH AMENDMENT
    No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    FIFTH AMENDMENT
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

    SIXTH AMENDMENT
    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law

    SEVENTH AMENDMENT
    The United States will not partake in cruel or unusual punishment. No citizen shall be put to death unless ruled otherwise by the Supreme Court. No citizen will be subjected to excessive bail, and the United States will not engage in any military practices which engage in cruel interrogation methods.

    EIGHTH AMENDMENT
    The role of the states should not be infringed upon by the federal government, less they go against the rights guaranteed by this Constitution.

    NINTH AMENDMENT
    Every citizen over the age of 18 has the right to vote.
     
  6. Zen Binary Oneness

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2001
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    1
    Philosopher King/benevolent dictatorship.


    a system should be devised that puts people in power who would rather not be, who specifically have no interest in power.

    i do not think that person should be elected in the public spectacle arena like how our political process is now.

    i am rather fond of just throwing a dart at a spinning map, enlarge that state... throw a dart at that state... enlarge that town... so on and so forth until you have a house equally divided by all eligible inhabitants and you fire a dart and theres your next "benevolent" dictator

    so basic eligibility requirements would come into play like a minimum level of education...and a minimum level of community service work, which would in turn drive just about everyone to reach at the very least a certain level of education and help their communities for a certain amount of time

    something akin to "associates in arts, and 10 years of community service"

    maybe throw an Age on it... somewhere in the 30-40 range as a minimum

    im not sure about a maximum... maybe 90 er so.

    make the turnover relatively fast, something like once every 4 years.

    Rulers would have history as a guide to past decisions made, and set precedents for the future, along with advisors which are made up from many folk including past rulers.

    i would like to see a precedent set that we simply don't attack other nations, we only defend ourselves and our allies. no invasion, only protection.

    ...hey you asked
    :woot:



    As scary and as arbitrary as this system may sound, just reflect back to the MANY times a president has been horrible, lackluster, great, ingenious...

    i would argue that most of the american populous has just as much of an ability to be those things in those orders (IF NOT BETTER) when given a chance... experience has proven throughout the years to mean Nothing in terms of intentions, only in terms of ability to persuade other stubborn colleagues does it pay off...

    so do away with that system, and put in place one that streamlines the process...

    yeah... certain things will be more up in the air and change from time to time... like ideas such as abortion and others, but as time wears on history will set precedents for the most part, instead of a long....arduous grinding process of political persuasion that alienates people all the time, i am for a more erratic process that alienates some folks some of the time. i think Chaos has a place in the political spectrum, it breeds strength and true character... and it keeps people intimately involved in the political process.

    i also think you would get the philosopher king that those great greek thinkers always wished for, more often than not.

    as to who would throw the dart... make some person chosen by national lottery or something, and have the map be scrambled.

    :oldrazz:
     
  7. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2000
    Messages:
    80,956
    Likes Received:
    8
    There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. It is like communism, looks great on paper, but power corrupts.
     
  8. SuBe Voluntaryist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    2
    I can agree with that. I like the "Non-Citizens" with out the right to vote, But, I brough that up in the "Could you be President" thread and got lambasted for it. I believe that it would be tough to get that to go through as you would have liberal parties (whom ever they may be) attack you for being racist, sexist, whateverist. But, I personally believe that you have to weed out the non-contributors in our system. But, I don't think that you have to serve in the Military to become a citizen. Not everyone has the ability to do so, but you could serve the public by being a teacher, a postal worker, a garbage man, firefighter, police officer, etc. Contribute for a minimum of 36 months, then you are a Citizen.

    I have no problem what-so-ever with term limites for Congress. But Supreme Court Elections would get in the way of their duty to the legal system. They would be more worried about getting elected than doing what is right for the Constitution.


    I personally would enact the Fairtax, and sit back and watch the Economy explode and rights revert back to the people.

    I would create a 10th Amendmant Comission that would review all Federal programs and decide whether that program could be better utilized in the Private Sector, the local Government or the State Goverments.
     
  9. Matt IKYN Guy Groupie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2000
    Messages:
    80,956
    Likes Received:
    8
    But as of now, they are worried about paying back the favor by sticking strictly to the political views of whoever appointed them as opposed to the constitution...sooo....
     
  10. SuBe Voluntaryist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    2
    That is not necessarily true because once they are appointed they are appointed to life. They don't "owe" anything to that person legally. But, an election would change the dynamic. Instead of servicing the Constitution, they would be Vote Buying on the bench.
     
  11. Malice BMFH

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is fascinating.
     
  12. Zen Binary Oneness

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2001
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    1
    a true statement if there ever was one, but absolute power would mean their rule would last more than 3 or 4 years, they do not have absolute power when they have term limits that are so short.

    i think when you look back on the few enlightened rulers of the past they started out great and slowly got corrupted, i am not completely sure that 4 years is long enough bring out the worst in people...

    perhaps 3 years,

    plus as history plays on ...every 3 or 4 years... people will remember the injustices they lived under during others reign and will endeavor to not stray into those areas.

    the only thing i get anxious about under what i propose is war... so i only support defensive military pursuits
     
  13. Zen Binary Oneness

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2001
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    1
    i am completely for people earning the right to participate, that merely birth alone doesn't mean you can vote... earn the vote, as liberal as some of my positions are, people should not be given anything if they have done nothing.

    i like your citizen/non-citizen example, social lobbyists be damned. :up:
     
  14. The Senator Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,290
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't endorse any of this, but I have one question:

    Do those who can't join the armed services because of medical problems remain non-citizens?
     
  15. Malice BMFH

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would imagine the military is not the only way to become a citizen...
    They are espacing me at the moment
     
  16. Malice BMFH

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2001
    Messages:
    12,744
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think my biggest issue with the government now is that fact the the majority of constituent opinion seems to be ignored at times. That is what it seems to me....
     
  17. The Incredible Hulk Bad Hombre

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    33,085
    Likes Received:
    89
    hey now! in Sid Meier's Civilization, communism kicked ass and made all kinds of crazy money....plus you could nuke people without getting Congress' approval...

    OK maybe you're right :)
     
  18. The Incredible Hulk Bad Hombre

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    33,085
    Likes Received:
    89
    In all seriousness, I'd rather see a true Democratic society as opposed to the Representative Republic we have in place now. The entire electoral college and delgate system needs to be scrapped.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, I'd like to see the dissolution of political parties, and have elections based on an individual's values, as opposed to the "team approach" that is rampant in tis country now.
     
  19. The Senator Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,290
    Likes Received:
    1
    And then watch as the country falls apart. There's a reason why we have representatives-- because the American people aren't intelligent enough to do things for themselves. Over 40% of Americans don't read the newspaper on a regular basis, and frankly, I don't want those people voting for an economic stimulus package or deciding whether we should go to war. I don't want racists, bigots, members of the Minute Men, religious figureheads, rapists, or drug addicts to have as much say as lawyers, consultants, professors, doctors, economists or business executives. I want people who know how the system works, and who went to school to learn the ins and outs of law and politics. I think it works perfectly as it is.

    The current government is like a lake covered in algae. The algae is the really gross part no one likes and is disgusted with, a lot like to partisan bickering and legislative gridlock. But underneath that, there's so much that works, so much that does what it's suppose to. And obviously, someone like me--who not only studies this every day, but actually works in our government-- understands this.
     
  20. SuBe Voluntaryist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    2
    What's wrong with the Minute Men? These people are doing things that the government should be doing. That is exactly what this country was founded on. Not, put everything in the hands of the Government and let them figure it out, but to do it your self.
     
  21. The Senator Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,290
    Likes Received:
    1
    They're racists, bigots, and possible murderers who have taken the law into their own hand. They have scapegoated an entire race of people, and I personally find that deplorable. If they were actually concerned citizens working for the greater good of society, and not ignorant yokels who hate Mexicans because they "took er jerbs!!1!!1!," then maybe I could live and let live. But obviously, that's not the case, so I think society would be better off without them.
     
  22. wiegeabo Omniposcient

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    37,116
    Likes Received:
    7

    While I disagree on getting rid of the Republic system and the electoral college (I'd modify the college, but it's been mathematically proven the EC is the most fair way to elect in our system), I wouldn't mind getting rid of politcial parties one bit.

    God forbid someone actually vote on people and laws based issues rather than party lines. That seems to be a big problem with the current system. Granted, parties are probably the most efficient was to gathering campaign financing and support, but that doesn't mean it's the best way, or the way it should be done.
     
  23. EdRyder Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    2,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    Out of the dozens of countries around the world that practice a form of mandatory service, Im pretty sure were the only country at the moment who offer military service as a path to "expedited citizenship".

    Now ,as for conscripted service=The reasons for exemption vary widely.I believe in Russia you're exempt if you're currently a student.Finland offers a form of exemption for consciences objectors.(I read somewhere that Jehovah's Witnesses man lighthouses there)Other countries have service merely suspended for medical reasons(pregnancy)

    As for Service as a mandatory path to citizenship.-I cant think of a single country that practices it.
    The most extreme example i can think up is if you're conscripted in Greece,and you dodge it ,you cant obtain a passport or leave the country.
     
  24. The Master Planner The Autodidact

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    The First Amendment applies to all, including idiots, racists, bigots, etc. It would be pretty friggin' pointless to enact a law guaranteeing freedom of speech only for those who agree with the views of the "powers that be", or even the majority of people. Under our current systems, fallacious arguments fail on their merits because others promptly have the chance to denounce them. Ku Klux Klanners have their freedom of speech, but nowadays the only place you see them is on Springer and a few websites.

    So, my reforms:
    Enact the FairTax.
    Throw out the fallacious "separation of church and state" precedent that is more often than not, used against the religiously inclined.
    Enact strict term limits.
    Rule that the First Amendment includes the internet and the broadcast media. Currently, the mainstream media is clogged with airheads who all agree with each other. I'm sure the Founding Fathers would hae done this if they'd had TV and internet around at the time.
     
  25. SuBe Voluntaryist

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    2
    :up: :woot: :woot: :up:
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"