New rule about use of term "racist" or "racism"...

[Baramos]

Is it just me or does this seem in response to the recent topic in general discussion about the use of several SuperHeroHype posts in a Cracked article about "Nerd Racism"? (I can't seem to find the topic now or I would link to it).

I honestly can't see any other explanation for this rule popping up now, and if it is in response to that...it seems weird to me. Like the administrators are taking a side on that issue.

Seems like it would have been more sense to just ban topics about THAT topic (changing the race of established characters in movies) than take a side like this.

Anyway, no idea if topics are actually allowed to be made discussing rule changes on the forum. So lock this if it is not allowed.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Is it just me or does this seem in response to the recent topic in general discussion about the use of several SuperHeroHype posts in a Cracked article about "Nerd Racism"? (I can't seem to find the topic now or I would link to it).

I honestly can't see any other explanation for this rule popping up now, and if it is in response to that...it seems weird to me. Like the administrators are taking a side on that issue.

Seems like it would have been more sense to just ban topics about THAT topic (changing the race of established characters in movies) than take a side like this.

Anyway, no idea if topics are actually allowed to be made discussing rule changes on the forum. So lock this if it is not allowed.

Its long over due.

Its a common tactic that gets used when an individual knows their argument is going to be hard to prove. Just get into any argument with a staunch Obama supporter, eventually, if you have a solid argument that they realize they cant top, the word "racist" will come out. You then have to defend and prove that you aren't racist and the original argument gets dropped, with them walking away feeling as if they've won. Same thing happens if you are debating anything that feminist are pushing. Its MUCH easier just to label you a sexist, because once that bomb gets dropped you have to spend all your time defending that.

NOT saying that racism or sexism doesnt exist, far from it, but more often than not(especially in places like these message boards) those terms are used to stifle an argument the individual(s) know theyll have trouble defending.

 

[Darthphere]

Yup, thats it.

 

[bullets]

What's the rule? We can't call anyone a racist? I missed all the hoopla.

 

[Darthphere]

Before this thread gets deleted, i'd like to point out the obvious because apparently it needs to be pointed out. You don't have to be a racist to say something racist. Or in fairness, something that can be interpreted as racist. That goes for all "ists" and "isms".

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Its long over due.

Its a common tactic that gets used when an individual knows their argument is going to be hard to prove. Just get into any argument with a staunch Obama supporter, eventually, if you have a solid argument that they realize they cant top, the word "racist" will come out. You then have to defend and prove that you aren't racist and the original argument gets dropped, with them walking away feeling as if they've won. Same thing happens if you are debating anything that feminist are pushing. Its MUCH easier just to label you a sexist, because once that bomb gets dropped you have to spend all your time defending that.

NOT saying that racism or sexism doesnt exist, far from it, but more often than not(especially in places like these message boards) those terms are used to stifle an argument the individual(s) know theyll have trouble defending.

Coming from a person of visible minority, I've noticed that it is more common for someone to claim someone is "pulling the racism card" then for someone to genuinely "pull the racist card".

A lot of the times, people make racist statements, whether they know it or not, and people who regularly face the issue of racism can generally pick up on them pretty well. I hear my friends (who aren't racist) making racist statements all the time, but it's out of ignorance, not hate (like, "how come black people get a month?" or "how come they can have an all chinese/arab/black school but we can't have an all white school!?").

There was a lot of debate over whether or not white comic book characters should be played by black people, and a lot of people did in fact make racist statements (I'm going to give most of them the ignorance credit rather than racist credits), and some posters started calling them out on it. A lot of the people who made the racist statements couldn't believe that they were racist (because naturally "I have black friends! How dare he call me a racist!"), and they called slander. Then, some posters DID start calling POSTERS racist (which in the cases of ignorance it would have been slander) and the mods walked in to see the huge mess and attempted a clean up.

That said, my understanding is this:
Being a racist on these boards is prohibited. However, making racist statements is a grey area (because 90% of the time on these boards, these statements are made out of ignorance rather than hate).

Calling someone a racist is a very bold claim, and if you're found to be slanderous, you will likewise be banned. However, (as far as I can tell) identifying a racist statement is still fair game.

 

[bullets]

Before this thread gets deleted, i'd like to point out the obvious because apparently it needs to be pointed out. You don't have to be a racist to say something racist. Or in fairness, something that can be interpreted as racist. That goes for all "ists" and "isms".

This is very true. I think some people in the debate had no idea why anyone would call them out on their statements. It's not about labeling , but instead trying to explain how the comments are being interpreted.

 

[zeroapoc]

I honestly can't see any other explanation for this rule popping up now, and if it is in response to that...it seems weird to me. Like the administrators are taking a side on that issue.

They aren't "taking a side". All the rule is about is preventing people from being labeled racist for having an opinion that they want a character portrayed as the same race in film as they have always been in comics.

People are still free to say that race changing isn't a big deal to them. They just can't name call others for feeling otherwise.

 

[JP]

Its long over due.

Its a common tactic that gets used when an individual knows their argument is going to be hard to prove. Just get into any argument with a staunch Obama supporter, eventually, if you have a solid argument that they realize they cant top, the word "racist" will come out. You then have to defend and prove that you aren't racist and the original argument gets dropped, with them walking away feeling as if they've won. Same thing happens if you are debating anything that feminist are pushing. Its MUCH easier just to label you a sexist, because once that bomb gets dropped you have to spend all your time defending that.

NOT saying that racism or sexism doesnt exist, far from it, but more often than not(especially in places like these message boards) those terms are used to stifle an argument the individual(s) know theyll have trouble defending.

Too bad that's not what happened in this case.

 

[E-Man]

It reeks of wanting to ignore a problem rather than deal with it head on. It's too "out of sight and out of mind" for my liking. I understand wanting to infract people for using the race card, but it seems as if actual racism is outright ignored in favor of not wanting to be labeled poorly by a popular website. I bet this thread will get deleted too because there is not even a chance to discuss things civilly.

 

[JP]

Before this thread gets deleted (because open discussion is also forbidden) I'd like to echo Asteroid-Man's post. Hope it helps clear up this awful misrepresentation of what actually happened in those previous thread.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't even know what happened. I did read the Cracked article in question, and if I recall correctly, there was some validity to it, but as with most of those Cracked articles, you can only really take an entertainment factor from it, not much of a credibility factor.

I believe there are genuine, non racist concerns to seeing major characters have their racial identity changed in movies. I also don't have a problem with those changes, in certain circumstances. However, in other circumstances, I feel that the racial change can be "gimmicky", which can in itself be just as racist as any resistance to change.

U wouldn't want Logan, or Superman, or Batman, or Gambit, or Storm, or Colossus, or Cyclops or someone to have a racial change.

Kingpin being changed didn't bother me. If they made a black Ghost Rider I don't think it'd bother me. I guess it depends on the character, and how it's done.

 

[zeroapoc]

It reeks of wanting to ignore a problem rather than deal with it head on. It's too "out of sight and out of mind" for my liking. I understand wanting to infract people for using the race card, but it seems as if actual racism is outright ignored in favor of not wanting to be labeled poorly by a popular website. I bet this thread will get deleted too because there is not even a chance to discuss things civilly.

I don't see the problem with this rule. I think both opinions have validity to them. If you're unopposed/in favor of race changing I don't see how calling someone a racist with the opposite view is a necessary tool that you need.

 

[zeroapoc]

How can I be latching onto something because I lack an argument, when I didn't even make an argument in the first place?

I didn't read a lot of that thread, so I didn't see every post. If people made offensive statements then those posts should be reported and the posters dealt with. The thing is that's not what this rule is addressing. It's there to stop an exchange like this...

Poster A " Johnny Storm is white in the comics, I want him to be played by a white guy."

Poster B "That's racist. You're a racist."


Do you not think that's unwarranted and should be prevented?

 

[Asteroid-Man]

How can I be latching onto something because I lack an argument, when I didn't even make an argument in the first place?

I didn't read a lot of that thread, so I didn't see every post. If people made offensive statements then those posts should be reported and the posters dealt with. The thing is that's not what this rule is addressing. It's there to stop an exchange like this...

Poster A " Johnny Storm is white in the comics, I want him to be played by a white guy."

Poster B "That's racist. You're a racist."


Do you not think that's unwarranted and should be prevented?

I think it was more like this:

Poster A: Johnny Storm is white in the comics, I want him to be played by a white guy.

Poster B: It's a movie.

Poster C: Pfft... it's clearly to be PC.

Poster D: Yeah! Or to make it more hip!

Poster B: Both of those statements are kind of racist. A decision like that is just as racist if true - which it isn't, because the other front runners are white, and Michael B Jordan played a character very similar to Johnny Storm already.

Posters A, C and D: We're not racist! That's slander!

Poster E: You guys totally are.

Poster B: Wait, guys I never-

Posters A, C, D, E: **** you!

Posters A, C, D, E: No, **** you!

Poster B: ...

Moderator K: EVERYONE ****!

Moderator H: If any of you are racist, you will be banned. If any of you call someone who isn't a racist a racist, you will be banned.

Everybody else: ...well I don't wanna be banned for calling someone a racist, so I'm just gonna let racist statements be posted by non-racist, but equally ignorant posters.

Posters A, C and D: Down with black Johnny Storm!!!

Cracked: LOL! Racist fanboys.

Darthphere:

JP: ...well clearly none of us are racist.

Moderators: Ahem.

Everybody else: I MUST NOT TELL LIES.

This Thread: Probably closed.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Honestly, it really doesn't bother me one way or the other.

I mean, if it was a character I actually cared about, then yeah, I would presumably want them to be brought onto the big screen as accurately as possible.

And the cynic in me will always assume the worst, about the motivations of the people behind the production if there is some significant alteration to the character. Remember Airbender? You know you do.

 

[SuperFerret]

Airbender was weird because even though the cultures in the cartoon's world were based off of amalgams of real world cultures, the characters themselves were difficult to pigeonhole into real world races. Plus, that movie was just plain bad.

The issue is, as always, not what you say, but how you say it. Preferring Johnny Storm to be played by a white person because he's white in the source material is not racist. Claiming that it would destroy the aesthetic of the Fantastic Four if one or more of them were black, or suggesting that the Thing (who for most of the movie won't look human) be the one who is cast as a different race if they simply must have a black person, borders on racist at the very least.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Airbender was weird because even though the cultures in the cartoon's world were based off of amalgams of real world cultures, the characters themselves were difficult to pigeonhole into real world races. Plus, that movie was just plain bad.

The issue is, as always, not what you say, but how you say it. Preferring Johnny Storm to be played by a white person because he's white in the source material is not racist. Claiming that it would destroy the aesthetic of the Fantastic Four if one or more of them were black, or suggesting that the Thing (who for most of the movie won't look human) be the one who is cast as a different race if they simply must have a black person, borders on racist at the very least.

Also making statements like "well then, let's have Black Panther played by a white actor!" is a racist use of reductio ad absurdum, in that Black Panther is black for a reason. He was meant as a symbol of Black Empowerment - again, that's not saying if a poster made such a claim that he or she would be racist, they would probably just be ignorant.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I'm dreading the live-action Akira movie in which they will recast all the Japanese teens as Americana-friendly whitebread kids. Does that make me racist?

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Honestly, stuff like Electro being black doesn't bother me, because his racial identity isn't important in the comics (His whole ID boils down to former electric linesman who got super-charged). But a black (or Asian or Hispanic or even red-headed) Peter Parker would bother me, because his civilian identity is so prolific and recognizable. Other things that would bother me: a white Luke Cage, an Australian Captain America, a catholic Ben Grimm, a Jewish Matt Murdock, a male Scarlet Witch. See... It's not about race. It's about being true to source material and backstory.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I'm dreading the live-action Akira movie in which they will recast all the Japanese teens as Americana-friendly whitebread kids. Does that make me racist?

Nope but it shows a lack of good taste

PS : just kidding, I don't mind about Akira movie casting as long it is good ( hypothetically speaking )

 

[SuperFerret]

I don't know much about Akira, but that feels a bit like it's a different situation.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I don't know much about Akira, but that feels a bit like it's a different situation.

Yeah I was half joking and half making a point that it's not about just wanting white characters to be white, but wanting all characters to be true to their background (if that background is important) no matter where they're from. I'd be the first to complain if a white actor tried to portray Luke Cage.

And it's a shame you haven't seen Akira, because it's good. But now you have something for your Netflix queue.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Nope but it shows a lack of good taste

PS : just kidding, I don't mind about Akira movie casting as long it is good ( hypothetically speaking )

It can't be good if they change it to America. The most important character in that movie is Neo-Tokyo itself.

 

[NickNitro]

What happened to the good ole days when racism was just another thing that happened in the world, like global warming.....or AIDS

The days when Power Rangers were segregated in costume by their nationality