Nolan's Batman, drained of fun?

[Abudefduf]

By "fun" did you actually mean "humour"? Because I think both BB and TDK are a helluva lot of fun, even though they are indeed lacking some quality humour (not totally, just a bit lacking).

 

[Secret Fawful]

This whole "Every comic movie should be bright and entertaining" bandwagon is already irritating as hell. Especially when you know the next fad will come, and everyone will end up *****ing about The Avengers.

Almost as annoying as the "every comic book movie should be like TDK" bandwagon. I'm more of the "every comic book movie should be like the Batman animated series" bandwagon, but whatever.

 

[The Morningstar]

Firstly, Nolan's Batman films aren't that intelligent or sophisticated. They still have the same old tropes and cliches that fill the genre, for better or worse. And there is nothing intelligent about whacking people around the head with themes and subtexts.

Secondly, it's not really fair to compare Batman to a film like Avengers. Batman is supposed to be dark and gritty. Avengers is supposed to be otherworldly, it's supposed to be escapism. Coming out of Avengers people had huge smiles on their faces. The audience regularly burst out into laughter and gasps. I'm from the UK, our cinemas are usually silent.

Batman, by his very nature, shouldn't really have those effects on people.

That said, I think a lot of what makes Batman cool and interesting is missing from these Nolan films. The martial arts for one thing, is truly horrendous. Power Rangers had better fight scenes. I also think taking away the fact that Bruce is a super genius and Sherlock Holmes esque detective takes away a lot of interesting aspects of the character.

Also, Batman is a mysterious character. There is no mystery to Nolan's Batman, because we're told everything about him. That takes away from the interest and "cool" factor of the character. As does the deviant sensuality subtext, which is lacking from these films.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

By "fun" did you actually mean "humour"? Because I think both BB and TDK are a helluva lot of fun, even though they are indeed lacking some quality humour (not totally, just a bit lacking).

I listed the discussion with Falcone as fun, as Blitzkreg Bob said before; "Fun does not mean funny"

Almost as annoying as the "every comic book movie should be like TDK" bandwagon. I'm more of the "every comic book movie should be like the Batman animated series" bandwagon, but whatever.

I wouldn't put every, let's say most

Firstly, Nolan's Batman films aren't that intelligent or sophisticated. They still have the same old tropes and cliches that fill the genre, for better or worse. And there is nothing intelligent about whacking people around the head with themes and subtexts.

That discussion came with the question "If The Avengers gross more than TDKR....?"

 

[Secret Fawful]

Firstly, Nolan's Batman films aren't that intelligent or sophisticated. They still have the same old tropes and cliches that fill the genre, for better or worse. And there is nothing intelligent about whacking people around the head with themes and subtexts.

Secondly, it's not really fair to compare Batman to a film like Avengers. Batman is supposed to be dark and gritty. Avengers is supposed to be otherworldly, it's supposed to be escapism. Coming out of Avengers people had huge smiles on their faces. The audience regularly burst out into laughter and gasps. I'm from the UK, our cinemas are usually silent.

Batman, by his very nature, shouldn't really have those effects on people.

That said, I think a lot of what makes Batman cool and interesting is missing from these Nolan films. The martial arts for one thing, is truly horrendous. Power Rangers had better fight scenes. I also think taking away the fact that Bruce is a super genius and Sherlock Holmes esque detective takes away a lot of interesting aspects of the character.

Also, Batman is a mysterious character. There is no mystery to Nolan's Batman, because we're told everything about him. That takes away from the interest and "cool" factor of the character. As does the deviant sensuality subtext, which is lacking from these films.

Yes. A thousand times yes. I love Nolan's films, but these elements are sorely missing. Nolan's Batfilms are a prime example of the essential film RULE: Don't tell me...show me.

 

[The Morningstar]

lol i've been saying that for years but most of the time people just call me a Nolan hater.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I guess certain scenes could benefit from less explaining
And I do miss the detective aspect, they could decree his genius level, but keep the detective element on him

 

[Abudefduf]

I listed the discussion with Falcone as fun, as Blitzkreg Bob said before; "Fun does not mean funny"

My bad, for some reason I missed that post; I now get what you mean. But I still think fun is extremely subjective and imho there are way more "fun" moments in these movies than you listed.
It probably helps that I don't really take them too seriously...

 

[The Morningstar]

Everything could do with less explaining. It's ok for films like The Prestige and Inception, because the very nature of those stories require exposition. How dreams work, how the magic tricks work.

But Batman? No. Batman is supposed to be a mysterious character. We shouldn't be told absolutely everything about him i don't think. And the socio-political themes are so unsubtle they become obnoxious and get in the way of everything else. It's like they are put in there not to say something worthwhile about society, but just to make the film more intelligent and deeper. That's my impression.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Everything could do with less explaining. It's ok for films like The Prestige and Inception, because the very nature of those stories require exposition. How dreams work, how the magic tricks work.

But Batman? No. Batman is supposed to be a mysterious character. We shouldn't be told absolutely everything about him i don't think. And the socio-political themes are so unsubtle they become obnoxious and get in the way of everything else. It's like they are put in there not to say something worthwhile about society, but just to make the film more intelligent and deeper. That's my impression.

These same people also think American Psycho is the most brilliant thing ever. No, sorry, it's pretentious crap.

 

[The Morningstar]

These same people also think American Psycho is the most brilliant thing ever. No, sorry, it's pretentious crap.

I love American Psycho!

 

[Shazam]

on a different site, people were discussing what would it mean if the avengers grossed more than the dark knight rises, some summed their thought as; "avengers would gross more due nolan's batman films being too dark depressing"

i see the dark and depressing in the past two movies, but i thought there is enough fun moments to like in them, the movies are nicely balanced and don't give all their focus on dark brooding, and depressing moments

what are your views?

your poll omitted "movie is fine as it is"

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I love American Psycho!

It's a fun movie, but the writing is so ham fisted and pretentious it's amusing to see people take it so seriously. It's truly a B-Movie.

Underrated writing: Predator. First of all the first thirty minutes satirizes every movie it's cast was known for. It's brilliance comes from watching action heroes display ACTUAL PANIC. There's even subtext like the hinted at gay relationship between Bill Duke and Jesse Ventura. The dialogue does such an awesome job of displaying these avatars of masculinity devolving into crying little girls. Just like they would be faced with such a monster. Instead of standing their ground they run, they panic, they make half witted attempts to attack, most of which backfire. There's a lot of subtle genius that movie doesn't get credit for, probably because Cameron's Aliens and Terminator(s) ecllipse that movie.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yea, Predator is a very smart script. It isn't just a brainless action movie. It's just that, like with Avengers, the subtle little things are easily overlooked because HOLY **** HULK IS FIGHTING THOR!!!

 

[The Joker]

Of course they're fun. They have so many great scenes and moments. They are a joy to watch again and again. There's just enough humor injected into them without taking away the dark gritty tone that Batman should have. I love them.

I didn't vote on the poll because none of those options are suitable for me.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yea, Predator is a very smart script. It isn't just a brainless action movie. It's just that, like with Avengers, the subtle little things are easily overlooked because HOLY **** HULK IS FIGHTING THOR!!!

TDK is prone to such awful fits of dialogue. The boat scene. Please. No one gives moralistic speeches as their about to die. Don't these people have lives? Or do they just sit around and wait for moments to pontificated about the morals of blowing up a boat? Where's the people in those scenes pleading because they'll never see their daughter or wife again? That's what I'd be doing? Begging for my life or trying to figure out a way to escape the boat undetected. There was not a ounce of real emotion in that scene. That bald guy wouldn't be giving stump speeches about how they broke the law. He'd be crying like a baby!

 

[Franklin Richards]

I don't watch The Maltese Falcon looking for fun. If Bogey cracks a joke, that's cool. But I didn't go into this looking for a laugh.

 

[The Morningstar]

TDK is prone to such awful fits of dialogue. The boat scene. Please. No one gives moralistic speeches as their about to die. Don't these people have lives? Or do they just sit around and wait for moments to pontificated about the morals of blowing up a boat? Where's the people in those scenes pleading because they'll never see their daughter or wife again? That's what I'd be doing? Begging for my life or trying to figure out a way to escape the boat undetected. There was not a ounce of real emotion in that scene. That bald guy wouldn't be giving stump speeches about how they broke the law. He'd be crying like a baby!

That's my problem with the dialogue. A lot of it is just completely unnatural. It's so blatantly scripted and thought out before hand. Barely any of it is real, instinctive. I never got the sense these were real people saying real things.

 

[baerrtt]

Firstly Nolan's films PERIOD aren't fun in a conventional sense but I don't believe TDK could've done the overall business it did if audiences as a whole weren't entertained by many of the things they saw onscreen. I just find this attitude expressed in the title thread curious.

I view the superhero genre as akin to the western in it's countless tales of good vs evil and quite frankly you don't get western fans bemoaning why THE WILD BUNCH, for example, is less 'fun' than BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID considering their loosely (with a capital Lt based on the same factual story or why THE SEARCHERS and UNFORGIVEN are darker than every other western their respective leading men (John Wayne and Eastwood) did.

And yet some comic book fans want it one way or the other without appreciating that different takes and perspectives keep a genre fresh and alive.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

TDK is a fun movie. Maybe not the funnest, but Ledger was a lot of fun, so was a lot of the action. The characters are often very dry and unnatural but the set pieces and action certainly make up for it

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I tihnk Nolan's dialogue fits the traditional DC romanticism.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I tihnk Nolan's dialogue fits the traditional DC romanticism.

You see it in most all of his movies though. It might fit but it's still very awkward and hard to take seriously.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Listening to a couple of these comments, you know who you are don't act like you don't. You'd think that extreme subtlety = good movie

when really it's not.

Nobody really dresses like a bat and beats up thugs in the night but ey...

It's all romanticized, why don't you guys just relax ?

 

[Nathan]

I love the Movies, but I agree it misses the "fun". Fun as in embracing the fact that it's based on a comic book. Things such as Joker being perma-white. It's just a small detail and Heath as Joker was still terrific, but when we can have a proper Red Skull in a Captain America Movie, I'd like to see a Joker created through a chemical accident. Or something even more simple, like the Batarang being one of Batman's main weapons, instead he barely uses them in the Movies. It'd be like having Captain America only throw his shield once or twice in a Movie.

It just doesn't feel fantastic enough. Nolan created a world, where you can't believe that Clayface, Man-Bat, Killer Croc, Mr. Freeze or even Poison Ivy could exist.

 

[Shazam]

Firstly, Nolan's Batman films aren't that intelligent or sophisticated. They still have the same old tropes and cliches that fill the genre, for better or worse. And there is nothing intelligent about whacking people around the head with themes and subtexts.

Secondly, it's not really fair to compare Batman to a film like Avengers. Batman is supposed to be dark and gritty. Avengers is supposed to be otherworldly, it's supposed to be escapism. Coming out of Avengers people had huge smiles on their faces. The audience regularly burst out into laughter and gasps. I'm from the UK, our cinemas are usually silent.

Batman, by his very nature, shouldn't really have those effects on people.

That said, I think a lot of what makes Batman cool and interesting is missing from these Nolan films. The martial arts for one thing, is truly horrendous. Power Rangers had better fight scenes. I also think taking away the fact that Bruce is a super genius and Sherlock Holmes esque detective takes away a lot of interesting aspects of the character.

Also, Batman is a mysterious character. There is no mystery to Nolan's Batman, because we're told everything about him. That takes away from the interest and "cool" factor of the character. As does the deviant sensuality subtext, which is lacking from these films.

I agree with mostly all of your points!

Batman lives in a different world. Martial artist will always be missing with that stupid "RUBBER SUIT" that movie directors simply refuse to get rid of!!! No on e can move in that thing! NO ONE!!

I don't agree on on his mysterious aspects.....He isn't suppose to be mysterious to us.....he should be that way with the other characters in the story. And I thinks he pulls that off nicely......

I do think that gets hurt with all the daylight scenes in the coming film. A man in a black rubber suit looks kinda silly in day time. Where's his advantage...where's the mystery in that?