Legend of Zelda Offical The Legend of Zelda Thread

[Benstamania]

I'm not a motion guy, never will be. That being said the way Link moved due to the motion...also really bothered me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Did you play the GCN version of TP at all?

Sadly no. I was too stupid to pick it up when I had a chance.

I would've preferred a traditional control option for SS, but honestly, I played through it fine. I don't know, I don't really like motion controls but I can tolerate them fine when they're alright.

See, I don't want to have to tolerate my controller.

 

[Tron Bonne]

As long as I can use them without any problem, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I just don't understand why they can't be optional.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Because at the time the Wiimote was the main controller so obviously they're going to design their main franchises around it. They wouldn't have been optional, the traditional controls would've been and I guess they decided not to go through the effort of designing the game around two different control options.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The problem with that theory imo is that it wouldn't have taken much if any effort to make both controls schemes optional. That is the nature of the lock-on button. Plus all you have to do to slash is hit a button. The real reason is they were trying to still push the Wii-mote, which thankfully has died.

The controls for Skyward Sword made me realize all the other things I don't like about the series. Added with the incredibly insightful sequel-itis on OoT, and it helped me put into context the feeling of annoyance I have had playing most Zelda games in 3D. I grew up loving OoT, but I guess I am a very different gamer these days. It just hasn't held up for me. I have been quite down on the series as a whole. And then I played A Link Between Worlds, and well they made the best Zelda game in 20 years.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

For some reason, I've always thought the top-down Zelda games had more of a charm than the 3D ones. Might just be nostalgia because my first game was a handheld, but either way it's true.

Link Between Worlds really was a fantastic game. I should play it again.

 

[Tron Bonne]

The problem with that theory imo is that it wouldn't have taken much if any effort to make both controls schemes optional. That is the nature of the lock-on button. Plus all you have to do to slash is hit a button. The real reason is they were trying to still push the Wii-mote, which thankfully has died.

Well, as I'm not in game design I really don't know what level of difficulty is involved in making control schemes, but I don't think that really invalidates what I said. Like it or not, the main controller for the Wii was the Wiimote. What's being said is essentially the same as saying they wished they'd made Uncharted 2 (just to give a random example) with standard Move controls with optional traditional controls. No one would realistically except that. I understand not liking something, I was by no means a fan of motion control, but there is an obvious logic behind designing a game's control scheme to the main controller in question and not including optional control options.

The controls for Skyward Sword made me realize all the other things I don't like about the series. Added with the incredibly insightful sequel-itis on OoT, and it helped me put into context the feeling of annoyance I have had playing most Zelda games in 3D. I grew up loving OoT, but I guess I am a very different gamer these days. It just hasn't held up for me. I have been quite down on the series as a whole. And then I played A Link Between Worlds, and well they made the best Zelda game in 20 years.

I don't know, SS didn't seem all that much like OOT to me. I even think TP, which seems to be criticized a lot for 'trying to be OOT', didn't seem all that much like OOT. But I also wouldn't call ALBW even close to the best Zelda in 20 years despite enjoying it, so obviously we disagree.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, as I'm not in game design I really don't know what level of difficulty is involved in making control schemes, but I don't think that really invalidates what I said. Like it or not, the main controller for the Wii was the Wiimote. What's being said is essentially the same as saying they wished they'd made Uncharted 2 (just to give a random example) with standard Move controls with optional traditional controls. No one would realistically except that. I understand not liking something, I was by no means a fan of motion control, but there is an obvious logic behind designing a game's control scheme to the main controller in question and not including optional control options.

An attempt to justify the crappy Wii-mote. Which of course did not work. I am not sure how accurate this site is, but I'd imagine it isn't miles off.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda

Skyward Sword sold less then half of what Twilight Princess did, and that was after five years and the huge install base for the Wii. Wind Waker, which was slaughtered by fans and came out for the low selling Gamecube, sold more then Skyward Sword.

No one ever said they couldn't make the game they wanted. Our point is that the controls made the game worse and not all that fun to play for us. We would have preferred that they used a standard control scheme. I was actually enjoying the story of SS and made it to the last few dungeons, but I just couldn't finish it. I was too frustrated playing it. What is unreasonable about that?

Comparing it to Uncharted 2 is a non-starter, because Uncharted was never designed with a flawed control design. The Wii-mote has gone the way of the dodo, and for good reason. The standard controller and mouse/keyboard are still the best way to play games. More important, there is nothing in SS that required motion controls. You are making it sound like it would have been difficult. If you spent 30 mins with SS, it becomes clear that it is no different then any other 3D Zelda in terms of what you do, bowling aside. The lock on button makes it incredibly easy to design it without the Wii-mote.

I don't know, SS didn't seem all that much like OOT to me. I even think TP, which seems to be criticized a lot for 'trying to be OOT', didn't seem all that much like OOT. But I also wouldn't call ALBW even close to the best Zelda in 20 years despite enjoying it, so obviously we disagree.

They are carbon copies of OoT, crappy Wii-mote aside. Adding weird spinning tops and a cloth to float does not change the basic gameplay. Wind Waker gets a pass because of its art style and charm.

 

[Tron Bonne]

An attempt to justify the crappy Wii-mote. Which of course did not work. I am not sure how accurate this site is, but I'd imagine it isn't miles off.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda

Skyward Sword sold less then half of what Twilight Princess did, and that was after five years and the huge install base for the Wii. Wind Waker, which was slaughtered by fans and came out for the low selling Gamecube, sold more then Skyward Sword.

That's a bit misleading. Twilight Princess is one of the big exceptions from a sales perspective of the Zelda series. Most mainline Zelda titles sell within the 3-4 million range (often dubbed the Zelda standard), and SS sold as excepted within that range. TP, OOT, and MM are exceptions to that with the former two selling way more and the latter selling way less. SS really only sold badly in comparison to TP and OOT.

No one ever said they couldn't make the game they wanted. Our point is that the controls made the game worse and not all that fun to play for us. We would have preferred that they used a standard control scheme. I was actually enjoying the story of SS and made it to the last few dungeons, but I just couldn't finish it. I was too frustrated playing it. What is unreasonable about that?

My initial response is to what Thundercrack said about 'not understanding' why the motion controls weren't optional, which is what I've mainly drawn from.

Comparing it to Uncharted 2 is a non-starter, because Uncharted was never designed with a flawed control design. The Wii-mote has gone the way of the dodo, and for good reason. The standard controller and mouse/keyboard are still the best way to play games. More important, there is nothing in SS that required motion controls. You are making it sound like it would have been difficult. If you spent 30 mins with SS, it becomes clear that it is no different then any other 3D Zelda in terms of what you do, bowling aside. The lock on button makes it incredibly easy to design it without the Wii-mote.

Totally sidesteps my point to reiterate personal opinion on motion controls. The UC2 analog is perfectly valid, because again, the main controller for the Wii was the Wiimote as the DS3 was for the PS3. So, yes, it is somewhat unreasonable to except them to design the game, one in their main franchise, around another controller than the main one, just like it would be unrealistic to except Uncharted 2 to be designed primarily around the Move controller with traditional controls as an option.

I'm not disputing that the option would have been great, by any means, but what I'm saying isn't coming from personal preference and more just general logic. My argument stems less from me liking motion controls and more from me simply acknowledging the reality of the time. I mean, speaking personal, hell, I would've had the game just have traditional controls but I know that expectation was unrealistic to the time period. Maybe for a HD remaster at some point down the road.

And to be super clear on one point I am not saying for a fact that it would have been difficult to design alternate controls. As I said, I am not a game designer, so I have no real idea how much effort is made in doing that. Unless you have experience in the field, I doubt you do either. But I think it's safe to assume that some degree of effort is required to program it, and the EAD decided not to put in that effort for whatever reason (to focus on or "push" as you say the Wiimote, most likely).

They are carbon copies of OoT, crappy Wii-mote aside. Adding weird spinning tops and a cloth to float does not change the basic gameplay. Wind Waker gets a pass because of its art style and charm.

Like I said, I don't really agree, but I don't care enough to argue. I will acknowledge that overall structure of Zelda barely changes from installment to installment, but that's about it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's a bit misleading. Twilight Princess is one of the big exceptions from a sales perspective of the Zelda series. Most mainline Zelda titles sell within the 3-4 million range (often dubbed the Zelda standard), and SS sold as excepted within that range. TP, OOT, and MM are exceptions to that with the former two selling way more and the latter selling way less. SS really only sold badly in comparison to TP and OOT.

The atypical game is SS, even with its massive install base. The original Zelda sold 6.5m. OoT and TP both basically sold 8m. All the other main series console Zelda games sold well over 4m. SS sold well below 4m, even though it was the purposely built Wii version and turned out to be the origin story.

LoZ: 6.51m
AoL: 4.38m
LttP: 4.61m
OoT: 7.6m
WW: 4.43m
TP: 8.58m
SS: 3.67m

Adeventure of Link is the closest to SS, and it sold 710k more then SS. It really isn't all that close. MM fell in your range by the way, though it is a spin off.

Totally sidesteps my point to reiterate personal opinion on motion controls. The UC2 analog is perfectly valid, because again, the main controller for the Wii was the Wiimote as the DS3 was for the PS3. So, yes, it is somewhat unreasonable to except them to design the game, one in their main franchise, around another controller than the main one, just like it would be unrealistic to except Uncharted 2 to be designed primarily around the Move controller with traditional controls as an option.

I'm not disputing that the option would have been great, by any means, but what I'm saying isn't coming from personal preference and more just general logic.

Except they did do it for other games. They even created a controller for this very purpose. Now this generation, they remade the Gamecube controllers for Smash and made an adapter for them.

Like I said, I don't really agree, but I don't care enough to argue. I will acknowledge that overall structure of Zelda barely changes from installment to installment, but that's about it.

What was different about the base gameplay of TP and SS? It isn't like the gameplay has evolved in the same manner we have seen with say Metal Gear Solid. The gameplay and structure just hasn't changed. Which would be ok if it was great, but I don't feel like it is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I wonder why Skyward Sword sold so poorly relatively speaking.

 

[Tron Bonne]

The atypical game is SS, even with its massive install base. The original Zelda sold 6.5m. OoT and TP both basically sold 8m. All the other main series console Zelda games sold well over 4m. SS sold well below 4m, even though it was the purposely built Wii version and turned out to be the origin story.

LoZ: 6.51m
AoL: 4.38m
LttP: 4.61m
OoT: 7.6m
WW: 4.43m
TP: 8.58m
SS: 3.67m

Adeventure of Link is the closest to SS, and it sold 710k more then SS. It really isn't all that close. MM fell in your range by the way, though it is a spin off.

MM isn't a spinoff, at least I've never heard it acknowledged as one. I'm pretty sure it's considered a mainline entry unless it's been stated otherwise that I'm unaware of.

I should note, too, that I include the handheld games in what I said, so taking those into account this really doesn't disprove what I said though maybe the standard is a half million more than what I thought. Though I was wrong about the original and MM, I guess (I always thought MM sold under 2 million, maybe I was mixing it up with The Minish Cap for some weird reason).

Except they did do it for other games. They even created a controller for this very purpose. Now this generation, they remade the Gamecube controllers for Smash and made an adapter for them.

Hm, are you actually familiar with how many Nintendo developed Wii games used the Classic Controller? It wasn't very many. It had a decent amount of 3rd party support, but the 1st party support was rather dry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_that_use_the_Classic_Controller

That controller was made more for VC in mind, I think. And lol at the GCN controller for Wii U. You realize, too, that GCN controller for Smash is hardwired just for Smash and not a single game besides Smash supports it, right?

What was different about the base gameplay of TP and SS? It isn't like the gameplay has evolved in the same manner we have seen with say Metal Gear Solid. The gameplay and structure just hasn't changed. Which would be ok if it was great, but I don't feel like it is.

I don't know, it's been awhile since I've played either so I couldn't give you a totally proper argument here, but I've never felt any Zelda was really a carbon copy to the last myself. Like I said, there is a degree of stagnation in certain elements to the games, but eh, they've all felt distinct to me.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I wonder why Skyward Sword sold so poorly relatively speaking.

I'm sure the explanation most will give is the controls, but I would probably say it was more in part to do with a combo of following a really successful and well-loved entry and disappointed people when it wasn't similar, and it came out fairly late in the Wii's lifespan. Also, the Japanese console market was starting to die around that point, so that may have had an impact in some way.

 

[TheLastBlade]

Skyward Sword was okay.

It's a downgrade of Twilight Princess.... Which Twilight Princess was also a downgrade of Wind Waker.

 

[zenith16]

Ganon Goes On A Rampage In Hyrule Warriors. February 26, 2015 . 12:50am

Hyrule Warriors has a new downloadable content pack that makes The Legend of Zelda series biggest enemy into a playable character. If you get the Boss Pack you can go on a rampage as Ganon in a challenge level.

[YT]50iWo_3BLWU[/YT]Hyrule Warriors has a new downloadable content pack that makes The Legend of Zelda series biggest enemy into a playable character. If you get the Boss Pack you can go on a rampage as Ganon in a challenge level. The 500 yen pack also includes a Boss Challenge mode. Complete these and you can unlock additional costumes for characters like Ganondorf and Lana.

The Ganon DLC will be out in Japan today. Nintendo announced the Boss Pack will be available in North America or March 12 for $2.99.




Read more stories about Hyrule Warriors & Wii U on Siliconera.

source: Siliconera

I smell a EPN.TV Versus Review for this & Dragon quest heroes now that the latter is coming to the west. should be interesting to see.

 

[spiderman2]

Skyward Sword was okay.

It's a downgrade of Twilight Princess.... Which Twilight Princess was also a downgrade of Wind Waker.

I agree with the first part but both TP and SWS are better then WW but they are all great.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I loved Skyward Sword. Could never get away with constantly recalibrating the Wiimote every minute or so

TW got a little too dark and depressing for my tastes. Still completed and loved it. But I've never wanted to cut my wrists after playing any game before

 

[zenith16]

[YT]nWqWPtPD7aQ[/YT]
A Giant Cucco Hatches In Next Hyrule Warriors DLC

dlc
on Feb 27, 2015 at 07:41 PM
3,615 Views

13
In what might be the best Hyrule Warriors DLC, players will soon be able to peck and scratch their enemies to bird seed by playing as a giant Cucco.
... More

source: GI

 

[Tron Bonne]

Playing through Majora's Mask 3D makes me remember how much I really like MM. But going through the longest sidequest in the game, getting to the end, and forgetting that you need the goddamn hookshot to finish it does show how it can be incredibly frustrating since you have to start the entire thing over from Day 1. The new Song of Double Time make that more tolerable and all, but still.

I do still love the game, though. I'm even finding new things in the 3DS version that I missed in the original. The [blackout]toilet ghost[/blackout] for instance. Never found that in the original N64 game. It's crazy how much stuff is crammed into this game.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I had some left over Club Nintendo points to burn, since they're discontinuing it, so I downloading the original Zelda game that I've never played.

This **** is hard.

 

[Soapy]

I actually just cashed in my Club Nintendo coins last night. I got Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid because I've never played a Metroid game before. I was going to get Zelda II as well, but they charged me twice for Metroid, so I'm waiting for them to get back to me about refunding my coins or maybe just giving me a Zelda II code if they can't do a refund. I've still got 90 coins left, but I don't think there's anything that cheap on there.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Yeah, I think the cheapest stuff is 200 coins. I downloaded the original Zelda and Link's Awakening DX. I have a few copies of it for GBC, but for some reason, I keep breaking them so they don't work. This should solve that problem.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I actually just cashed in my Club Nintendo coins last night. I got Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid because I've never played a Metroid game before. I was going to get Zelda II as well, but they charged me twice for Metroid, so I'm waiting for them to get back to me about refunding my coins or maybe just giving me a Zelda II code if they can't do a refund. I've still got 90 coins left, but I don't think there's anything that cheap on there.

I was going to say Grill Off with Ultra Hand, but it looks like they took it down

 

[Matt Mortem]

150 is the cheapest I think, which blows. I have 35 coins just sitting there.