Official 2011 MLB Thread

[BlackLantern]

Disappointed in the voting for Bagwell. Seems like this thing is turning into a witch hunt. It's gotten to this point:

1. "Are there any allegations against this guy?" No.
2. "Any smoking gun evidence?" No.
3. "OK, what does he look like?" Muscular.

So much for innocent until proven guilty. I just wonder how much worse the witch hunt will get. Does a guy like Griffey get kept out on the first ballot simply because he was a slugger who played at the same time as Bonds, McGwire, et al? Griffey passes the test on the three questions I posted above, yet somehow you wonder if people will take the witch hunt tactics even further. Guilt by association so to speak. Just by being a power hitter in the steroid era, a person is tainted.

that hasn't been the case in this society for a long, long time

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Yeah, I don't like how the voters treated Bagwell with "guilty by association." He clearly is one of the best power hitting first basemen of all time.

I think if you were ever within 100 yards of Ken Caminiti then you're technically a steroid user.

 

[Kingfish]

only repetitive due to people saying over and over "i dont get it...please explain it" so id give a brief history every couple of pages

People were confused about it but I highly doubt anyone ever actually asked for an explanation.

 

[BlackLantern]

pretty much....

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

I think if you were ever within 100 yards of Ken Caminiti then you're technically a steroid user.

Camineti's name has not come up once with any of the writers regarding Bagwell's candidacy. In terms of the era they all played in, no one is presumed innocent now. Bullox.

 

[BlackLantern]

Camineti's name has not come up once with any of the writers regarding Bagwell's candidacy. In terms of the era they all played in, no one is presumed innocent now. Bullox.

Griffey....he is seen as the antithesis of the "Steroid Era"

Griffey IMO is the only guy that I can look at, as a fan, and be 99.9 percent sure he never took 'roids

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Actually I think Frank Thomas is the antithesis. There was a claim in Canseco's book that Arod and Griffey were all sitting around and made some blood brother promise to do roids. Not that I think it's true in the slightest but I can't remember anyone making a claim insinuating Big Hurt ever juiced.

 

[Kingfish]

They're both pretty much seen that way. Thomas will still run into problems when they start *****ing about well over half of his career spent as a DH.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Knocking someone down a peg as a DH isn't a legitimate argument, if someone can hit, they can hit. Edgar Martinez could hit, judge him based on that.

 

[Kingfish]

Yes, because HOF voters follow any kind of logic. That's why two of them voted for BJ Surhoff.

 

[BlackLantern]

BJ ****ing Surhoff

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Whoever voted for Surhoff did it out of sympathy. No integrity with those guys out of respect for deserving candidates.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Griffey....he is seen as the antithesis of the "Steroid Era"

Griffey IMO is the only guy that I can look at, as a fan, and be 99.9 percent sure he never took 'roids

The sad thing is it shoulda been him breaking Aaron's record instead of Barroid. In any event, I'm going to be pretty pissed if they keep Junior out on the first ballot simply because of the era he played in. The second half of his career was sad to watch, but he had a 10-12 year run that was legendary. I do wonder how much longer he could have kept going if he didn't play on astroturf for so many years. Playing reckless center field on basically concrete was bound to catch up with him at some point. Add in his alleged lack of work ethic in the gym and the two combine for a pretty obvious physical breakdown.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

People were confused about it but I highly doubt anyone ever actually asked for an explanation.

actually someone said to explain it so i did!
the other times were just me tryin to help.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

The sad thing is it shoulda been him breaking Aaron's record instead of Barroid. In any event, I'm going to be pretty pissed if they keep Junior out on the first ballot simply because of the era he played in. The second half of his career was sad to watch, but he had a 10-12 year run that was legendary. I do wonder how much longer he could have kept going if he didn't play on astroturf for so many years. Playing reckless center field on basically concrete was bound to catch up with him at some point. Add in his alleged lack of work ethic in the gym and the two combine for a pretty obvious physical breakdown.

A-rod has a good shot at breaking the HR record still. No one will be pleased that a pretty boy *****e bag broke the record of a polarizing *******.

 

[Kingfish]

And then Albert Pujols has a shot at being the white knight and saving us from either sitting up there for too long.

 

[redfirebird2008]

And then Albert Pujols has a shot at being the white knight and saving us from either sitting up there for too long.

Personally I think Pujols has been juicing his entire career or at the very least the early part of it before the steroid testing started. I also suspect he is older than he claims, just like a lot of other Dominican players over the years. Remember the Little League pitcher who was tearing it up in the LLWS and then it turned out he was actually 14 going against 12 year olds? There have been a number of Dominican Major Leaguers who lied about their age as well, including Miguel Tejada. Pujols is supposedly engaged in contract discussions with the Cardinals right now and age is definitely a factor at this point in his career in terms of his earning potential. If he's actually, say, 33 instead of his claimed 30, that makes a big difference on the contract. If I remember right, Tejada got busted right around the time he was in contract negotiations. He was claiming to be 32 when he was really 34.

Bottom line is if you were hoping to have a clean guy from this era set a home run record, it went down the tubes with Griffey's constant injuries in Cincinnati. And for all we know he's not clean either. Heck, Hank Aaron himself admitted to using amphetamines ("greenies") even though he claims it was "only one time." Sounds like McGwire's excuse for using steroids "only to recover from injuries." No doubt amphetamines help your awareness and would have a pretty significant impact if someone used them for a long career like Aaron's. If you take away a few homers per year due to him not being quite as alert as he was with the amphetamines, suddenly he's below Ruth's 714 homers. And since we're on the topic of unfair playing fields, Ruth was part of the segregation era. He didn't face all of his potential competition. Basically if you go down the rabbit hole with each generation, they can all be criticized in one way or another.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

but what if Pujols isnt juicing and is the age he says he is?
then it didnt go down the tube lol.
Its all speculation on that.

 

[redfirebird2008]

but what if Pujols isnt juicing and is the age he says he is?
then it didnt go down the tube lol.
Its all speculation on that.

Then he's the greatest hitter in baseball history. But considering the history of the Dominican Republic for pumping out not only steroid users but age liars, it's not out of the realm of possibility to look at his rookie year and think something was off right out of the gate. He was performing like a guy in his mid to late 20's, not a 21 year old kid in his first season against steroid-enhanced pitching at the Major League level. And mind you, his rookie year was the same year Bonds hit 73. In other words, no drug testing and the absolute pinnacle of the Steroid Era.

 

[Kingfish]

1. "Are there any allegations against this guy?" No.
2. "Any smoking gun evidence?" No.
3. "OK, what does he look like?" Muscular.

So much for innocent until proven guilty.

Personally I think Pujols has been juicing his entire career or at the very least the early part of it before the steroid testing started.

 

[redfirebird2008]

t:

Not a Hall of Fame voter. If I was, I would vote for Pujols since there is no actual proof or even allegations. I have my own suspicion about the beginning of his career, especially with regard to his age. But suspicion is not enough reason to vote against the guy IMHO. Same goes for Bagwell. Neither one of those guys have been accused of steroid use by other players or baseball insiders and neither has failed a test (that we know of). The actual and circumstantial evidence is pretty damning for the likes of Bonds, Palmeiro, McGwire, Clemens, Sosa, etc.

 

[Erzengel]

Looks like Garza to the Cubs.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/cubs-to-acquire-matt-garza.html

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

^ That's a heck of a haul that Tampa got for him. Tampa's farm system will be bordering on ridiculous.

 

[redfirebird2008]

One thing I will say in defense of Pujols is that his name wasn't leaked to the NY Times or Sports Illustrated in association with the 2003 anonymous steroid tests where 104 players failed. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, and A-Rod all had their names leaked to the media. Pujols has been one of the biggest stars in the game his entire career, so it bodes well for his credibility that his name wasn't leaked. Like I said, it's one thing to have suspicion and it's another to vote against someone because of suspicion.

 

[Kingfish]

Looks like Garza to the Cubs.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/cubs-to-acquire-matt-garza.html

Yowch. That's an insane haul for a #3 starter. The Rays have to be one of the smartest front offices in the game, doing what they do with the resources they have. That's an absolute fleecing.