Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - Part 4

[hippie_hunter]

He claims he's unimpressed with her, which I suspect is because she's not reveling in how much of a badass she is. She's actually ashamed of her violent past and f***ed up upbringing, as opposed to Damian.

Personally, I think it's more along the lines of Damian's insecurities than Cassandra holding back.

Damian fears Tim because Tim is a rival for Bruce's affections and is entitled to the Wayne family legacy just as much as he is. But Tim really stands out because he's the smart one of the group which is something that Bruce admires. And because Damian was raised with an elitist mentality from his mother, he feels that he should be the most deserving just because he's Bruce's biological son while Tim was just adopted. And to say that Tim is completely innocent is wrong because he has done nothing to calm those fears within Damian. He's just a 10 year old boy who still needs comforting.

Now take a look at Cassandra, another adopted Wayne child who is also entitled to the Wayne legacy. However, unlike Tim, Cassandra is essentially just like Damian in terms of skill sets, but much, much better. Being the insecure child that he already is due to barely knowing his father and having to compete with Tim, Cassandra just makes Damian feel that much more threatened in terms of his place not only within his father's heart, but within the team as well.

To Damian, with Tim being much smarter, and Cassandra being much more skilled, together they are major threat to Damian's securities. Add in the fact that Tim and Cassandra get along very well and complement each other perfectly as well and you can understand why Damian is hostile to them and feels the need to put them down as harshly as possible. The only adopted Wayne child that has earned Damian's respect is Dick, the one who actually took him in and raised him when he had no one else to go to.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So, in short, Damian's jealous of everyone because they're all better than he is. On this, we agree.

 

[hippie_hunter]

So, in short, Damian's jealous of everyone because they're all better than he is. On this, we agree.

He's not jealous of the other two adopted sons. Jason is the black sheep of the family and Dick actually earned his respect and love.

Tim on the other hand, despite being much closer to Damian in age than Dick is has done no such thing. He has done nothing to show that Damian's jealousies and insecurities regarding him are unfounded and has shown him more resentment than love.

 

[Anubis]

Well, he did try to kill him. I could see how he might not want to have anything to do with that *****e.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, no one should be jealous of Jason Todd. Strung out crack fiends have their s*** together more than that idiot.

And I can't fault Tim for not being as enlightened as Dick. So Damian's got Bruce's DNA. Big deal. Tim wasn't raised by Bruce the way Dick was, so he doesn't feel that familial connection to all things Wayne. He had his own parents and his own life and only made the transition from partner to surrogate son to Bruce after his own family and friends were all violently ripped away. I see Tim's adoption by Bruce as more of a crutch to get him through those hard times than anything else. And without that deep familial connection to the Wayne legacy that Dick has, all Tim sees when he looks at Damian is a snot-nosed little bastard (literally) who has earnestly tried to kill him on a couple of occasions. I think the fact that Tim can be in the same room as Damian without punching him in the head at least once counts as monumental restraint and respect (for Bruce and Dick more than Damian, obviously) on his part.

 

[Anubis]

Cuz as I said, he did try to kill him.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, the kid's a dick. I don't care that he's 10 or that he's had a rough life. Cassandra had a rougher life but she was never a straight-up *****ebag after freeing herself from Cain's influence. Damian's an a**hole, plain and simple. I don't see how it's somehow Tim's duty to coddle him or pretend that his sociopathy's acceptable.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Tim shouldn't coddle Damian's behavior, but he does need to show Damian that his fears are unregarded. That Bruce has room in his heart for the both of them and that he isn't a threat to Damian. He should at least attempt to act like a brother to Damian the way that Dick acts like a brother to the both of them.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Bull to the s***. Tim never presented himself as a threat to Damian. Damian assumed he was and then tried to murder him. Talk about blaming the victim.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, I mean, sure he's probably less of a dick now, but the first time he meets him, he tries to kill him. Talk about making a lousy first impression.


So you know. Maybe they can come together when, like, they are forced to team up in a life or death situation and Tim ends up having to save him or something, cuz you know, he's not a *****e bag. That's kinda how these things work out.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Bull to the s***. Tim never presented himself as a threat to Damian. Damian assumed he was and then tried to murder him. Talk about blaming the victim.

Which is why Tim needs to show that he isn't a threat to Damian. But instead he shows resentment and sometimes flat out loathing to Damian. It's gotten to the point where neither one of them are victims and both are to blame for the state of their relationship.

 

[Anubis]

Except for the fact that, you know, HE TRIED TO KILL HIM!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I know, I'm really not seeing how this is in any way an equally contentious relationship. Tim shows Damian resentment, fine. Damian shows Tim resentment AND TRIES TO KILL HIM.

 

[X Knight]

what about Steph?

Has Bruce adopted her into the family, too?

and how does Damian get along with Steph?

 

[Anubis]

No and Not well.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Damian calls her fat, as I understand it.

 

[Anubis]

Fatgirl.

 

[X Knight]

Damian calls her fat, as I understand it.

that little ***!!!

how dare he insult Steph??!!

hasn't he seen her fabulous drawings?? she's a genius!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You know what? Maybe hippie's right. It probably is Tim's own fault that Damian hates him and tries to kill him. I mean, Damian obviously can't control himself, right? He's just following his nature and all kinds of psychological impulses he's far too young to understand.

Hey, you know who else could benefit from an end to their constant persecution? Gotham's criminal element. I mean, these are clearly victims--honorable folks who just want to scrape together a modest living by robbing and occasionally murdering Gotham's citizenry. But are they allowed to go about their business in peace? No, sir. Instead, they've got some psycho in a bat costume running around punching their faces in and calling them a "superstitious and cowardly lot." The nerve of that guy! If he could just tone down the resentment a bit, I'm sure every last one of them would realize that the law ain't so bad after all and straighten out right quick. It's a damn shame, is what.

 

[Roose Bolton]

They're actually pretty good together. Like the Brian and Stewie of the Bat family.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Provided Damian doesn't actively try to murder Tim, I agree. They're fun. The idea that Tim should accept responsibility for Damian's hostility and pretend he's a loving brotherly figure is patently ridiculous, but he also shouldn't let Damian's bulls*** get to him so much. The facts 1) that he does and 2) that Damian's more than happy to keep dishing it out make them a funny, b****y odd couple. You know, as long as Damian isn't cutting Tim's grappling line mid-swing to see what he looks like as a smear on the pavement.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I know, I'm really not seeing how this is in any way an equally contentious relationship. Tim shows Damian resentment, fine. Damian shows Tim resentment AND TRIES TO KILL HIM.

When he was first introduced and under the guidance of his crazy psycho mother. The Damian of today would never attempt to kill him. The whole point of Damian's character is to show him progressing from the murderous little bastard his mother raised to someone who fights for the ideals that Bruce represents.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Damian tried to kill him again under the veil of friendship after he had become Robin. Cut Tim's grappling line while he was like 40 stories up.

Anyway, that's irrelevant. Whether Damian's tried to kill Tim once or ten times, Tim is well within the realm of understandability for hating Damian. The idea that Tim is somehow failing in his duty as one of Bruce's heirs by not ignoring Damian's venomous hatred and treating Damian like his dear, beloved brother is just utterly ridiculous. That's, like, Superman-level being the bigger man. Tim's prone to fits of angst and often a jerk himself, so he's not quite at that level. Besides, Damian's trusted with the responsibility of protecting innocent lives and stopping psychopaths. Why shouldn't he be held responsible for his own actions and constant barrage of insults?

 

[Anubis]

You know something? I don't like what they did to Talia.

She wasn't a crazy psycho b***h until like a few years ago. Before she was probably the only sane person in the league of Shadows.

Then there was this huge sudden shift in character and I swear it's like I'm the only one that noticed it.

 

[Tron Bonne]

You weren't. Others, including myself, commented on that a few times during the B&R run.