Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - Part 9

[Shazam]

I don't think you understand a little concept called tension. A Batman who can easily overcome anything even the impossible like breathing in space and surviving without food or water for over a week delivers no tension. There's no need to root or fear for Batman because without tension, you just know that he's going to overcome it with no challenge and his character remains stale and static as a result. There is no need to get emotionally involved with a story if you think that Batman can overcome everything. A Batman who cannot be challenged by normal means is boring. And you need to take into account that Batman is just a man. So he has mortal limitations as a result.

And in something like the superhero genre, tension is a necessity to keep things fresh and lively.

Hunter, come on, ......I'm a huge reader. I know what tension is okay?t:

I also know when it seems contrived. I know that Bruce's will power is second to none. Just based on the facts....just based on what he has trained himself to encounter, he should not have been the total mess we saw in this story. Body weakened a bit from no food??....okay. But mentally??? No way he should have lost his mind like he did.

That's all I'm saying.

Also...Bruce is not a normal man. Human? Yes. A guy that can slow his heart rate and breathing to survive being buried alive???

And as we just saw, survive even being run thru the kidneys to still fight.

 

[Mystirious]

He wasn't just starving though he was dehydrated and heavily drugged too

 

[Watchman]

scott snyder says joe chill is retconned

I remember he was saying he hoped for that in interviews but it's confirmed

God damn it. Whatever, I'll just retreat back into denial and believe that Joe Chill in Hell is forever canon.

 

[Mystirious]

That was a pretty good story

One of Morrison's best Batman ones I think

 

[WompuM]

dude...just stop. 8 days of drinking only drugged water. Yes, he would have been broken down. And he should have been broken down. He's not ****ing Superman.

You don't want to be reading Batman. You want to be reading Superman in a Batman costume.

That was one of the bestr episodes of the Batman Superman adventures. Didn't, what, Brainiac(?) infect Bruce with nanites?

I don't think you understand a little concept called tension. A Batman who can easily overcome anything even the impossible like breathing in space and surviving without food or water for over a week delivers no tension. There's no need to root or fear for Batman because without tension, you just know that he's going to overcome it with no challenge and his character remains stale and static as a result. There is no need to get emotionally involved with a story if you think that Batman can overcome everything. A Batman who cannot be challenged by normal means is boring. And you need to take into account that Batman is just a man. So he has mortal limitations as a result.

And in something like the superhero genre, tension is a necessity to keep things fresh and lively.

Though Batman can totally breathe in space

I've seen it happen

She's right you know. But I agree completely. This story seems so fresh because it does have Batman being challenged and not in control of the situation. Eventually, yes, he regains control through his knowledge of Gotham, but it's wonderful to see him truly have to push himself to win. Plus, I've never seen him have to get so motivated and pissed off in order to win. It was refreshing.

scott snyder says joe chill is retconned

I remember he was saying he hoped for that in interviews but it's confirmed

I'm fine with that as I've always liked the idea of Bruce parents killer never being caught. It just adds to the idea of how corrupt and awful Gotham was back then and why it needed men like Bruce or Jim Gordon to help make it at least a little better

I'm okay with this so long as it remains a mystery and no ****ing Metallo. *facepalm*

 

[Mystirious]

Metallo possibly being the killer of the Wayne's was the first warning sign that Loeb was losing his mind

She's right you know.

He has enough prep time not to need oxygen

But I agree completely. This story seems so fresh because it does have Batman being challenged and not in control of the situation. Eventually, yes, he regains control through his knowledge of Gotham, but it's wonderful to see him truly have to push himself to win. Plus, I've never seen him have to get so motivated and pissed off in order to win. It was refreshing.

Agreed Womp

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I also know when it seems contrived. I know that Bruce's will power is second to none. Just based on the facts....just based on what he has trained himself to encounter, he should not have been the total mess we saw in this story. Body weakened a bit from no food??....okay. But mentally??? No way he should have lost his mind like he did.

He. Was. Drugged. What do you not understand about this?

Based on your idea of what Batman is and can do, I have no idea what it would take for a writer to make you happy.

 

[WompuM]

No ****. The guy was paranoid already. What if you found out that not only was bigfoot real, but he murdered your grandpa? And now he's after you. It would freak you out. Add that to the fact that he was drinking drugged water with no food for several days. How exactly were you expecting Batman to react?

 

[Shazam]

He wasn't just starving though he was dehydrated and heavily drugged too

And why was he "heavily" drugged? Because he kept going back to a fountain he knew was drugged.

Really??

He'd keep drinking drugged water? Not the Batman I'm familiar with. He goes into "that "mind over matter" mode we have seen so many times.

 

[Shazam]

He. Was. Drugged. What do you not understand about this?

Based on your idea of what Batman is and can do, I have no idea what it would take for a writer to make you happy.

Read. My. Posts.

 

[HighFivingMF]

And why was he "heavily" drugged? Because he kept going back to a fountain he knew was drugged.

Really??

He'd keep drinking drugged water? Not the Batman I'm familiar with. He goes into "that "mind over matter" mode we have seen so many times.

Hydrated and loopy or dead and nothing because you're ****ing dead?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Exactly. Eight days without water is still eight days without water. He'd be dead, regardless of whether he ignored the effects or not.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Read. My. Posts.

I am reading your posts. And you're still making absolutely no sense.

 

[WompuM]

Bingo. He obviously wants to read about a Batman who could never face any real conflicts. Pretty ****ing boring.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm fine with that as I've always liked the idea of Bruce parents killer never being caught. It just adds to the idea of how corrupt and awful Gotham was back then and why it needed men like Bruce or Jim Gordon to help make it at least a little better

To me, it never made sense that the World's Greatest Detective couldn't solve the case, especially if we're never told why Batman couldn't solve it.

I kind of liked what Batman Begins did with the issue. Joe Chill is caught and convicted, then murdered before Bruce becomes Batman. It means that, without a doubt, Batman's crusade is for justice, not revenge.

 

[WompuM]

Honestly, what hope does Bruce really have of solving a ~25 year muder? Sure, the Gotham cops must have some evidence, but it was a poorly run corrupt organization. Even the best detectives need facts and evidence. It's just too cold of a case, and that is one of the points I always liked about that angle; the great irony that not even Batman can solve the Waynes' murder, because at the end of the day, they were the victim of a random act of violence and desperation. Now, I'm not saying Joe Chill didn't do it--I'm just saying Bruce has no way of findong out he did. One thing is certain though, it wasn't ****ing Metallo.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Honestly, what hope does Bruce really have of solving a ~25 year muder? Sure, the Gotham cops must have some evidence, but it was a poorly run corrupt organization. Even the best detectives need facts and evidence. It's just too cold of a case, and that is one of the points I always liked about that angle; the great irony that not even Batman can solve the Waynes' murder, because at the end of the day, they were the victim of a random act of violence and desperation. Now, I'm not saying Joe Chill didn't do it--I'm just saying Bruce has no way of findong out he did. One thing is certain though, it wasn't ****ing Metallo.

Still, wouldn't Batman be able to look at case files and such? Check fingerprints, et cetera? It works if the murder was a mob hit, but not a random mugging. It just never sat well with me that we rarely, if ever, even saw Batman investigate the killing when it was unsolved.
I just like the idea that the case was solved, that book is closed.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Fingerprints on what?

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I'm 100% with Womp on this one. The irony of not solving it is what makes me love it so much.

And how many random muggings go unsolved every night? Way more than solved muggings. Even the world's greatest detective can't do anything when all he can go off of is a 20 year old memory of a guy coming out of an alley and shooting his parents.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Fingerprints on what?

The gun, of course. Or he could match the bullets to the gun. Whenever he says, "My parents' killer was never caught", I think, "Well, you are the goddamn Batman, why don't you do anything to change that?" If Batman's never going to shown at least making an attempt to solve it, don't bother having it be unsolved in the first place.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Also...Bruce is not a normal man.

Yes he is, just because he has the skills, doesn't mean that he's not limited to the restrictions a normal man has. Having great will power and being able to slow down his heart rate have nothing to do with the simple fact that no man can survive 8 days without water.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Why would the killer leave his gun? And if he could find the bullets in evidence, he'd just be able to find out the kind of gun. Plus, the killer would probably wear gloves. But I'm pretty sure street muggers don't buy their guns through legal means or have a life expectancy that's high enough to bother anyway.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Why would the killer leave his gun? And if he could find the bullets in evidence, he'd just be able to find out the kind of gun. Plus, the killer would probably wear gloves. But I'm pretty sure street muggers don't buy their guns through legal means or have a life expectancy that's high enough to bother anyway.

If Batman's not going to bother solving the murder, then don't waste my time with "My parent's killer was never caught.", because it's entirely pointless. I don't want to see Batman endlessly obsess over his parent's unsolved murder if he's not going to do anything about it. There's far more to the character than "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!!"

 

[HighFivingMF]

If Batman's not going to bother solving the murder, then don't waste my time with "My parent's killer was never caught.", because it's entirely pointless. I don't want to see Batman endlessly obsess over his parent's unsolved murder if he's not going to do anything about it. There's far more to the character than "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD!!"

Okay....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Honestly, what hope does Bruce really have of solving a ~25 year muder? Sure, the Gotham cops must have some evidence, but it was a poorly run corrupt organization. Even the best detectives need facts and evidence. It's just too cold of a case, and that is one of the points I always liked about that angle; the great irony that not even Batman can solve the Waynes' murder, because at the end of the day, they were the victim of a random act of violence and desperation. Now, I'm not saying Joe Chill didn't do it--I'm just saying Bruce has no way of findong out he did. One thing is certain though, it wasn't ****ing Metallo.

If I never hear the name "Joe Chill" again, it'll be too soon. I much prefer the irony of the world's greatest detective never being able to solve the one case that means the most to him.