Official The Hobbit thread

[Darthphere]

Shaye apparently doesn't like making money.

 

[DorkyFresh]

matrix_ghost, you're on Shaye's payroll aren't you? hehe

seriously though...no, we don't know what's going on but knowing Peter Jackson's CHARACTER it's more likely, not DEFINITE, that he's the honorable one in this fued. the proof or the evidence you want won't be distributed over the internet by Jackson nor Shaye so there's no point in waiting for it.

all we can do is judge character and actions...and right now, Shaye's actions are pointing him towards "guilty".

 

[Majik1387]

Robert Shaye and Tom Rothman should get together.
Even though I think both LOTR and Jackson are severly overrated, and that many directors could do the Hobbit just as good as Jackson, Shaye is making a boneheaded decision that is denying his company lots of money.

...I think LOTR and Jackson are overrated as well...
But I still think of him as a great director, with a lot of vision and a great understanding of his source material.
I think Shaye should be ousted by his collegues at New Line now. This is going to be a HUGE mistake.
Hell...Now Jackson can make the Hobbit for MGM.

What's with all these movie executives rejected filmmakers that make them bushels of cash?!? Is it really that hard to put their egos aside?

Well, a quarter billion dollars is a very large amount of money, but considering how many billions Jackson has made for New Line, he should get whatever he wants. The first film of the trilogy made all the three films budget back and that's just the U.S. domestic box office. The Hobbit could probably net them another billion worldwide with Jackson at the helm.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Advanced Dark]

I knew Wes was unhappy about Goyer and Trinity, but I didn't know he claimed to have been shortchanged as well.

Looks like this isn't the first time it's happened.

Word has a way of getting around. If I'd made a movie with New Line, I guess I'd be considering my own audit about now.

Oh yeah Wes sued New Line for like 3.5 million or something. I'm sure if you google it you could find it. He was short changed per Wes and I believe him.

 

[matrix_ghost]

matrix_ghost, you're on Shaye's payroll aren't you? hehe

seriously though...no, we don't know what's going on but knowing Peter Jackson's CHARACTER it's more likely, not DEFINITE, that he's the honorable one in this fued. the proof or the evidence you want won't be distributed over the internet by Jackson nor Shaye so there's no point in waiting for it.
all we can do is judge character and actions...and right now, Shaye's actions are pointing him towards "guilty".

I know that this won't happen and i don't expect it to happen too.
However i'm just critical and skeptical about these things and even tough PJ might seem honorable to alot of people , it's been shown many many times in that money can change you. He's playing it safe while Shaye is playing it aggresive. And it doesn't surprise me one bit since everbody is taking Peter's side and blaming Shaye/New Line to be jackasses for not giving PJ his money.

So yeah count me on the neutral side claiming that everybody is guilty and innocent at the same time

*cashes in Shaye's paycheck t: *

 

[Rac]

Sony Pictures, ftw!

Nah. Remember what they did to Kurt Wimmer and Ultraviolet? Warner Bros. ftw!

 

[matrix_ghost]

Nah. Remember what they did to Kurt Wimmer and Ultraviolet? Warner Bros. ftw!

That wasn't Sony. That was ScreenGems

 

[Backdrifter]

And what if Jackson really has gotten his share of the money ?
I don't want to come off as a Shaye supporter here with my posts , but i do feel that we all should be on neutral grounds on this topic.

Shaye has a point in saying just how much PJ has gotten out of the LOTR movies. Like i said with the Tobey argument. If money has been made by a movie , many people do want a bigger share. If PJ was to be paid something like 10 million for all three movies , i'd actually support him if he was asking for more money. However 250 million isn't 10 million. It's ALOT of money. And it shows ( at least to me) that any person would want more money if he/she sees a movie is a massive success.

You are missing the moral issue here. If New Line is breaking a contract agreement then PJ is entitled to that money to begin with, regardless if he has already made millions. New Line is hiding behind this and trying to justify their shady business practices. I respect Peter Jackson for sticking it to this comapny for attempting to take him for a sucker. This is a battle of egos, but there is also a moral issue here and I side with PJ on this one.

 

[AssMan]

Wesley Snipes also had the same trouble with New Line. He sued New Line saying for 5 million saying that New Line did not do their end of the contract with paying him what they agreed on.

 

[Rac]

That wasn't Sony. That was ScreenGems

Oh yeah. Sony was the distributor. My bad.

 

[matrix_ghost]

You are missing the moral issue here. If New Line is breaking a contract agreement then PJ is entitled to that money to begin with, regardless if he has already made millions. New Line is hiding behind this and trying to justify their shady business practices. I respect Peter Jackson for sticking it to this comapny for attempting to take him for a sucker. This is a battle of egos, but there is also a moral issue here and I side with PJ on this one.

That "IF" is why i'm not siding with neither PJ nor Shaye on this .
You're already choosing a side here. I agree with ya that Pete has every right to sue New Line if he can truly show that New Line hasn't paid him the money he so rightfully deserves.

And what's the moral issue here. A man showing a big company that they aren't allmighty ?
Well that doesn't prove anything. Tell that to many people out there who sue companies RIGHTFULLY OR WRONGFULLY.
It is rightfull if they are indeed ripped off however IMO the very notion of a moral issue shouldn't even be mentioned when suing someone for all the wrong reasons.

Sure it's a battle of egos. Cause the bigger you are , the harder you fall. Imagine the humiliation when it's announced that PJ loses the case or when Shaye loses the case.Nobody wants to suffer that shame but again it's a matter of who is telling the truth and neither party has so far convinced me that they are telling it.

 

[matrix_ghost]

Wesley Snipes also had the same trouble with New Line. He sued New Line saying for 5 million saying that New Line did not do their end of the contract with paying him what they agreed on. I personally believe Peter Jackson is in the right here & New Line just simply does not want to give up the money.

I find this very funny cause Wes was later called to the states cause he didn't pay his taxes.
Any news of whether Wes won or not

 

[AssMan]

I find this very funny cause Wes was later called to the states cause he didn't pay his taxes.
Any news of whether Wes won or not

I dont see what Wesley Snipes not paying his taxes has to do with New Line not paying him & as I recall the whole taxes thing happend LONG AFTER Trinity.

 

[matrix_ghost]

I just found the irony funny that Snipes sued New Line for not doing their end of the contract and pay him what they agreed on and in '06 he's charged for failed tax returns aswell as fraudulent claims over tax refunds

 

[Movies205]

Man I love fanboys and how they love to see things from such a bias standpoint. Whether you like it or not, Hollywood is out to make money, how else do you justify spending a 100+ million dollars on something. I think if Peter Jackson has integrity, he's probably ashamed of his fans right now in all there stupidity. Jackson had a choice which is make considerable more money than what this suit would get him and also get to make a Hobbit movie, or stick by his guns at the consequence of not making a Hobbit movie. He knew the consequences that's what happen. Now Bob Shaye is a dignified and respected executive in Hollywood, why should a buesiness man have to deal with this kind of crap for making a buesiness decision? He obviously was left with only one choice, you can't have film-makers running amuck in buesiness, he had to put his foot down, blame yourselves and actually blame Jackson for getting blacklisted. Had he handle this profesionally, not sending a letter to TheOne Ring, and kept this quiet he wouldn't be blacklisted. I'm sorry I feel no remorse for Jackson and I think this buesiness is ridiculous since it should be private.

 

[matrix_ghost]

Man I love fanboys and how they love to see things from such a bias standpoint. Whether you like it or not, Hollywood is out to make money, how else do you justify spending a 100+ million dollars on something. I think if Peter Jackson has integrity, he's probably ashamed of his fans right now in all there stupidity. Jackson had a choice which is make considerable more money than what this suit would get him and also get to make a Hobbit movie, or stick by his guns at the consequence of not making a Hobbit movie. He knew the consequences that's what happen. Now Bob Shaye is a dignified and respected executive in Hollywood, why should a buesiness man have to deal with this kind of crap for making a buesiness decision? He obviously was left with only one choice, you can't have film-makers running amuck in buesiness, he had to put his foot down, blame yourselves and actually blame Jackson for getting blacklisted. Had he handle this profesionally, not sending a letter to TheOne Ring, and kept this quiet he wouldn't be blacklisted. I'm sorry I feel no remorse for Jackson and I think this buesiness is ridiculous since it should be private.

I agree with ya on this ( although not completely ).
However i just don't think this could've been kept private with constant talks about the hobbit movie. Sooner or later one of the parties was bound to open up about the lawsuit and really tell everyone why a hobbit movie won't be moving foward at least for now.

On one hand you have to hand to PJ for bbeing a smart person and sending or allowing ( depends on which view you look at it) OneRing to post his letter concerning this issue and thus get the fans involved in the whole thing.
It's no surprise that the fans would side with Pete on this . And what you pretty much get is the negative stand against NEw Line getting stronger and stronger from fans who would like a hobbit movie made and also MGM. The pressure to settle this would grow on NEw Line's side and to me it's really no surprise that Shaye was this agrresive.

What you said Movies205 about Shaye stepping in and putting his foot down. He had too because so far it's just been PJ claiming to be the innocent person here people believing him.

 

[Movies205]

I agree with ya on this ( although not completely ).
However i just don't think this could've been kept private with constant talks about the hobbit movie. Sooner or later one of the parties was bound to open up about the lawsuit and really tell everyone why a hobbit movie won't be moving foward at least for now.

On one hand you have to hand to PJ for bbeing a smart person and sending or allowing ( depends on which view you look at it) OneRing to post his letter concerning this issue and thus get the fans involved in the whole thing.
It's no surprise that the fans would side with Pete on this . And what you pretty much get is the negative stand against NEw Line getting stronger and stronger from fans who would like a hobbit movie made and also MGM. The pressure to settle this would grow on NEw Line's side and to me it's really no surprise that Shaye was this agrresive.

What you said Movies205 about Shaye stepping in and putting his foot down. He had too because so far it's just been PJ claiming to be the innocent person here people believing him.

Well that's what I mean, in life we can't always get what we want and as for it getting out that's true, it probably would get out but while Jackson thought he was being clever with that letter all he did was shoot himself in the foot. Does everyone remember Martin Scorsese's Gangs of New York? Well back then Martin had many problems with the Weinstiens they forced him to cut it down much to his chagrin. Did Martin ever ONCE mention it to the media, never, he was a professional and took it like a man. As a result he went on to make Aviator at Miramax with the Weinsteins. Think of it this way, Peter Jackson had shut the door on some wonderful productions down the line because you have to admit, you all say Shaye is ******ed now but without him Lord of the Rings would of never happened along wiht many great movies.

 

[The Lizard]

Those who think that Peter Jackson is just looking to make himself more money with this lawsuit should read these comments by Quint on AICN:

Someone sued Paramount over COMING TO AMERICA in which the books on that film were opened and audited. That lawsuit resulted in Eddie Murphy, having nothing to do with the lawsuit, getting a crazy amount of money and never having to go to court. The studio was cheating everybody, so they were forced to pay everybody, not just the person who sued.

It sounds to me like New Line isn't risking just having to pay Jackson what they owe him, but if the books on all 3 movies are made public, they could owe so many more people money. Or they could have completely fulfilled their contractual obligations to everybody, but then why would they deny access to a contracted party? And why would they do everything they could to make it go away, roll it in with that deal for Jackson to direct HOBBIT? It's looking more and more like New Line cooked the books a bit and shortchanged at least Jackson, if not more we don't know about.

So it's quite possible that New Line's refusal to allow the LOTR profit books to be audited might be to withhold money from people other than Jackson. The claim that "Jackson's been paid enough" is simply a straw man argument to distract from the fact that other actors, crew and companies might also be entitled to more than New Line has given them. Since Jackson formed close bonds with many of the cast and crew of LOTR, his insistance of an audit would make even more sense in this regard.

 

[Movies205]

I agree with ya on this ( although not completely ).
However i just don't think this could've been kept private with constant talks about the hobbit movie. Sooner or later one of the parties was bound to open up about the lawsuit and really tell everyone why a hobbit movie won't be moving foward at least for now.

On one hand you have to hand to PJ for bbeing a smart person and sending or allowing ( depends on which view you look at it) OneRing to post his letter concerning this issue and thus get the fans involved in the whole thing.
It's no surprise that the fans would side with Pete on this . And what you pretty much get is the negative stand against NEw Line getting stronger and stronger from fans who would like a hobbit movie made and also MGM. The pressure to settle this would grow on NEw Line's side and to me it's really no surprise that Shaye was this agrresive.

What you said Movies205 about Shaye stepping in and putting his foot down. He had too because so far it's just been PJ claiming to be the innocent person here people believing him.

Those who think that Peter Jackson is just looking to make himself more money with this lawsuit should read these comments by Quint on AICN:



So it's quite possible that New Line's refusal to allow the LOTR profit books to be audited might be to withhold money from people other than Jackson. The claim that "Jackson's been paid enough" is simply a straw man argument to distract from the fact that other actors, crew and companies might also be entitled to more than New Line has given them. Since Jackson formed close bonds with many of the cast and crew of LOTR, his insistance of an audit would make even more sense in this regard.

My argument isn't about that but more about Jackson handling of this, he should of simply said I'm not interested in directing the Hobbit and continue on his audit. It would leave ******ed fanboys out of it and keep his ass out of the fire.

 

[The Lizard]

My argument isn't about that but more about Jackson handling of this, he should of simply said I'm not interested in directing the Hobbit and continue on his audit. It would leave ******ed fanboys out of it and keep his ass out of the fire.

But he did want to direct The Hobbit, and any potential issues with the LOTR bookkeeping shouldn't have had anything to do with The Hobbit in the first place.

The fanboys would have demanded to know what was going on anyway, and Jackson just told them.

 

[Movies205]

But he did want to direct The Hobbit, and any potential issues with the LOTR bookkeeping shouldn't have had anything to do with The Hobbit in the first place.

The fanboys would have demanded to know what was going on anyway, and Jackson just told them.

Then he should of kept his mouth shut and made the hobbit, he had a choice... Life's not fair, all he did was make it worse.

 

[The Lizard]

Then he should of kept his mouth shut and made the hobbit, he had a choice... Life's not fair, all he did was make it worse.

You're assuming that Jackson's blacklisting from New Line is due to his comments and not the lawsuit to open the books. "Life's not fair" might be true, but since it might affect many more people than just Jackson, why shouldn't he voice his reasons to anyone who would listen?

 

[matrix_ghost]

Then he should of kept his mouth shut and made the hobbit, he had a choice... Life's not fair, all he did was make it worse.

You know this wouldn't have happened with the court case .
See what Shaye said :

"I do not want to make a movie with somebody who is suing me," Shaye—New Line's chief executive officer—said in an interview on Jan. 5 while promoting The Last Mimzy, a New Line family fantasy that marks his first time in a director's chair since 1990's Book of Love. "It will never happen during my watch."

 

[enterthemadness]

New Line pwned Jackson.

Which is just because he directed a popular trilogy that did great at the box office.

 

[Movies205]

You're assuming that Jackson's blacklisting from New Line is due to his comments and not the lawsuit to open the books. "Life's not fair" might be true, but since it might affect many more people than just Jackson, why shouldn't he voice his reasons to anyone who would listen?

Then take it to court, it doesn't involve the fans... His getting blacklisted has more to do with the public outcry he's created. I love Terry Gilliam but he created the rut he is now in terms of having to fight for every movie he makes because he started it by bringing his fight over Brazil public. When dealing with these things, I beleive in professionalism. Why should a buesiness executive have to deal with fan outcry over buesiness decisions? This should be left with the courts...