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Animation Official Wolverine And The X-men, "Hindsight 1-3" Discussion Thread

I managed to catch HINDSIGHT, PART 1 on the internet. I can't say where, but it rhymes with Zoo Lube. Catch it before it gets zapped.

I'd seen the intro before, as it was sneaked online, but it still is a good score with a nice sequence showing most of the prominent X-Men. In some ways, the only major downer is that I'd long known the premise and seen a lot of the preview animation, so there weren't as many surprises as when even X-MEN EVOLUTION debuted in 2000. I will say, though, that despite some reservations, this was a much better pilot than EVOLUTION's was. The tone of the show is darker, but not completely bleak. The animation style reminds me of some of Saban's old "house" style for character models, but with some Steven E. Gordon touches and the quality of the animation so far is good. It's better looking that a few shows on TV and even a few DTV's.

HEAVY SPOILERS!!!

The plot won't surprise anyone who has been scoping out previews online for half a year, but it still manages to have some thrills of it's own.
The episode opens of course with a scene depicting life at the Mansion and a Danger Room training sequence with Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Kitty Pryde. They get in some banter and it was pretty cool to see. Kitty was a bit whiney for my tastes; the Evolution version was, like, TOTALLY a Valley Girl but she had a better first impression for my tastes. I mean, here Kitty was complaining about escaping from tentacles about 20' up and any fan could come up with about 4-5 ways she could do it without any harm to herself. Nightcrawler and Colossus were fine, though. Nightcrawler easily steals the scene, which is fine; Colossus is your standard tanker with a Russian accent whose shoulders and arms are nearly the size of his entire torso, but nothing bad. The DR session was run by Wolverine, who uses it as a departing gesture. He's doing his "John Wayne walking against the sun" bit again, leaving the Mansion for some reason for some length of time.

Cyclops and Jean are having some sort of fight and Jean infamously blows Logan a kiss, as if they're the ones who are lovers and not she and Scott. I'd be a bit insulted, but, well, the movies and every single alternate version X-Men comic seems to claim that she and Logan, not Cyclops, are the ideal X-Lovers, so it was more par for the course. Speaking of which, though, Rogue takes Logan's leaving very hard. The age difference between the two is unknown but Rogue's concerns for Logan seem, erm, a bit unlike a "friend" and more like she genuinely loves him, like, intimately. The X-FILMS, at least the first, raised that specter of "borderline jailbait crushing on Wolverine" and, to be fair, there was some flirting back in the 80's comics when they were X-Men and Rogue, at least by how the writers tell it, wasn't supposed to be older than 18 (Wolverine once shared a kiss with her to "share" his healing powers). I didn't mind this cartoon taking that bit up, because it makes things more complicated and that is interesting. Plus, well, it's hard to forget BATMAN BEYOND basically admitting that Bruce Wayne literally dated a college age Batgirl for a time.

Wolverine wakes up in "present day", one year later (not the DC event). The X-Mansion has been fragged and the X-Men are no more. There is an explosion up the road from him and Logan begrudgingly helps save a small girl of an interracial couple. The resulting explosion knocks Logan out, but he manages to save the girl's life. Logan's "power level" appeared on par with what it was in X-MEN EVOLUTION, which I always liked compared to the seemingly invincible instant regeneration he has in the comics sometimes. Logan can "heal fast", but it takes time, and he can be TKO'd with sufficient force (like being in the center of an exploding truck, as he was here). That keeps the danger level high because he's not unbeatable. Plus, I was a fan of the 80's when being shot by a shotgun was actually a major inconvenience in a fight for him. He couldn't just be THE CROW and walk through a hundred gunmen without trying to duck. I liked that.

While only mentioned by the term "MRD", I presume it stands for the MUTANT REGISTRATION DEPARTMENT, which is in operation and acts as like a mutant terrorist hotline for anyone to report sightings of mutants. Basically, everyone white is either prejudiced against mutants, wants to report them to the MRD, or works for the MRD. Only minorities appear willing to defend or even touch a mutant, or those married to minorities. At least that was the impression that I got from the pilot, as the family of he girl Logan saved works to take him into their trailor while a neighbor of their's reports Logan, who the MRD has on a "list". Hey, it may sound like complaining, but in a way I don't mind the race analogies. Considering mutants face the very same prejudices that a lot of minorities of various genders and ethnic groups face, to me it makes sense that, say, a black person would be more willing to help a mutant than a white person (and this is coming from a white guy). Heck, sometimes I almost roll my eyes at the hypocrisy of ethnic groups who have faced equal oppression hating on mutants. But, that's another topic.

Of course, the next flashback reveals that Xavier and Jean were nuked a year ago, and among visions of a mangled wheelchair, the X-Men are no more. The MRD is summoned to the home of the nice people and despite Wolverine donning his yellow costume and thrashing some soldiers, he can't prevent the MRD from arresting his protectors. Determined to do something, Wolverine returns to the ruins of the X-Men and finds the only X-person who still seems to hang around the area; Beast.

Wolverine is the de facto star of the show, but he and Beast get in some good interplay with each other. Beast appears to even sport Logan's EVOLUTION hairstyle, and they both enjoy thick sideburns. Over the year since the Mansion was fragged, Beast has eliminated virtually every known means that Xavier and Jean could have been bombed, leaving things at square one. Beast is disturbed that the MRD is now arresting "human civilians" instead of just mutants, and agrees to help Logan stage a jailbreak. They steal an MRD jeep and by playing the ol' "Fake Stormtrooper/Wookie prisoner" ploy with Beast as the Wookie, a rescue they did go.

We learn that the general of this particular facility is a guy with Wolverine-like scars across his face, who fans would know is John Wraith. He seeks knowledge of where Logan is and is willing to use this mental-torture device to extract data from his mind. Quite a few other mutants get cameos in cells, but the most specific ones were Rockslide, Pyro, Dust, and Boom-Boom (the latter of which was, according to interviews, always close to Steven E. Gordon's heart; on his website he professed to like the "bad girls" of Evo). Beast goes about the rescue trying to convince anyone he meets if they can "discuss things" before he has to ultimately throw them against a wall or into each other. Again, he and Logan have some good interplay between each other and manage to get the rescue. Logan leaves Wraith strapped to his own torture device, although he doesn't seem to recognize the scars or make any note of who he is besides "random base leader". Dust, Pyro, and Boom-Boom have notable sequences helping to blow up some aircraft, but after Beast notes that the cell will be "full of mutants tomorrow", Wolverine appears to figure the futility of things and melodramatically announces, "We're bringing back the X-Men." Hey, and it only took a year of futility for a new strategy. Wolverine > President Bush.

Onto the characters. Steven Jay Blum voices Wolverine of course and does a good job of it. He's had prior experience of course from video games, but this naturally gives him more material to work with. He passes the "growl" test, which is essential for anyone who voices Wolverine. Speaking of Wolverine, perhaps the only downside to the character (besides the fact that he is the star and central focus for those of you who dislike that), is that he's a bit more of a generic superhero with a mild surly chip on the shoulder than a beserker loner struggling with a killer rage. He's more of a biker who every now and then growls in his yellow spandex. While that's close to how Yost & Kyle ran with Logan in X-MEN EVOLUTION (when he "babysat kids"), in a way it takes edge off him and makes it a bit more obvious that he, of course, will lead the X-Men. In the opening sequence he literally comes off as Mr. X-Man, running Danger Room sims, and being the object of affection for Jean and Rogue. When Xavier starts twitching in agony, Logan, not Cyclops, rushes to his aid. While this is hardly the first X-Men story that wrote Wolverine as the "heart" of the team, in a way the one-sidedness took a lot of drama out of things. The "hook" is Logan announcing wanting to reform the X-Men by the end of the episode; I was wondering why he wasn't leader of the X-Men before they blew up, from how they depicted things. The whole "Logan was about to leave" thing almost seemed obligatory and a function of the plot, because the rest of Logan's character was not written to reflect that. If you want a "dark hero" out of Wolverine, this isn't it; Wayne in THE BATMAN probably came off as darker in some episodes. The only "rebel" thing Wolvie does is leave Wraith in his own torture machine, but, again, Batman's at times tormented some of his enemies like this before.

Fred Tatasciore, who usually is the guy voicing Hulk in Marvel DTV's, voices Beast and does a terrific job; I was very impressed. From design to costume, Beast's full of "win", as they say on the Internet. Danielle Judovit's Kitty Pryde was a bit annoying; I preferred her EVOLTUON voice actress (Valley accent and all). Kieren Van Den Blink only gets one or two long lines as Rogue in this episode, but she does a good job of things; I'm not a fan of the anime style "eyeball drawn through the lock of hair" thing. Liam O'Brien seemed to own his role of Nightcrawler and I liked the adventurous flair to the elf's voice, and the design is good, too. Nolan North's Cyclops doesn't get a whole lot to do in this episode so it is hard to gauge him so far, but he was fine for the 1-2 lines he had. Still, North of course was fine as Hank Pym in the ULTIMATE AVENGERS DTV's and I was impressed with his take on Raphael in the TMNT (or "Ninja Turtles 4") on the big screen last year. Overall, the voice cast is pretty good here.

The action is standard for a network TV cartoon. Wolverine can't cut anything besides robots, objects, or guns, but quite frankly I've gotten used to that after 15 years so picking on that would be a bit unfair. There are still ways to pace good action sequences without having Wolverine slice everyone into bits, and in a way it fits with the whole "fighting against the beast" thing Logan has (although not in this episode; again, here Logan is written as "Mr. Biker X-Man"). They weren't bad, but didn't really get my blood pumping either. I do admit the best part was when Wolverine shreds a net and walks out of a smoke-bomb explosion, daring his attackers to try again. But, hey, these things take time. The 90's Wolverine's iconic, "THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, MORPH!" moment didn't come until the end of the second episode, recall.

The show assumes you know about the X-Men by now as it dumps you right into the thick of things. As to which X-Men were founders and of the order of their recruitment, that's unknown. EVOLUTION had Storm and Wolverine as Xavier's first X-Men so don't be surprised if they mess up the order a little. Still, I imagine it may be closer to the films with Cyclops, Jean, Beast, and Storm being Xavier's first few before stumbling upon Wolverine, and then the rest are kids (or younger).

One could argue that Cyclops very easily could have been written as Logan is here, and he could have. But, Wolverine's the most popular X-Man after all. From a business perspective, building a show around him does make sense. Wolverine's edges are quite a bit smooth here, at least from my impression here. Unlike Wolverine, censorship rules aren't as stern against "zapping people with energy", so Cyclops has ironically been easier to stage fights with on network TV than Logan has. It will be interesting what they do with him. Sure, Scott and the rest of the team will serve as supporting characters to Wolverine, which is annoying unto itself, but it is what it is and we knew that coming in. EVOLUTION was your last chance to appreciate an X-Men that wasn't hogged by Wolverine and it is a shame all the DVD's of that aren't out. Still, that doesn't mean that supporting characters can't be interesting unto themselves. Captain Kirk was the main star of STAR TREK, but Bones, Scotty, Sulu, and of course Spock got plenty of moments too. Part of me still sees no reason why Colossus can't be on the future core cast of the show if Storm and Nightcrawler are there, but I've grown accustomed to it. Hopefully in one of Colossus' few guest spots on the show, he gets in a good moment. In EVOLUTION, all he did was get tossed. Least in the 90's show, he got some good moments against Juggernaut and Omega Red.

I was skeptical of the show but it has a lot of potential, and the pilot alone is FAR better than virtually all of the Marvel LG DTV's that Yost & Kyle have written. They may be boxed too much into "writing for TV" that they can't strike for better when they have the networks off their back for DTV's, but for TV at the least, they're proving solid overall. "Strategy X" from 2000's EVOLUTION jazzed me up, although I was only 18 back then. "HINDSIGHT PART 1" is at least twice as good, in my opinion. Even if you're pissed that Wolverine is hogging all the other X-Men's spotlight again in a mass media adaptation, there's plenty of goodness in this, and is worth a look. I'll be interested in seeing as many episodes as I can, when I can, however I can. Waiting until next year for "synergy" with Wolverine's movie is U.S.' loss and Canada (and the Internet's) gain.
 
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yeah the pilot aired this morning on ytv up here. It was okay not great.I hope it will get better.
 
SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN had a better debut, but I still enjoyed the pilot overall.
 
Episode 2. Description from YTV:

Episode #2: Hindsight, Part Two
Original Canadian Airdate - 13th September, 2008

With Professor Xavier still missing and the MRD capturing and torturing mutants, Wolverine and Beast attempt to reunite The X-Men to oppose them.

That was a good review Dread.

I'm glad I was not the only one that noticed that it felt like there was more to Rogue's emotions than just being upset with Logan on a FRIENDLY level. I feel Rogue is more upset that Wolverine isn't leaving, but that he seems to be ignoring what she feels for him.

The movies even went further with the Rogue/Wolverine connection when Mystique transformed into her in the second movie when she was trying to sex up Wolverine.
 
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Where is everyone seeing part 2 and 3 in English? I have looked all over and cannot find it!

If someone has a link would you mind messaging it to me? :)

Thanks!
 
Part II just aired.

As I said previously, anyone who's seen the promo reel understands the general outline of events here, but, hey, that's what you get when you read/watch spoilers.

The scene with the unveiling of the proto-Sentinel (which looked remarkably like one of the Spider-Slayers from the 90s Spider-Man series) seemed like a Robocop reference. Angel got a decent rescue moment, though not even the show's opening credits can pretend he has much offensive capability; his character is in an interesting spot, though given that he's in the opening credits I imagine we're eventually going to get a moment where he tells dad to go to hell and goes public.

Given the huge roster of X-Men in comics, it feels somewhat odd to see this series have Logan and Hank's rolodex of potential allies apparently so small, though they do a decent job of reintroducing everybody. Iceman finally gets on the main cast of an X-Men series, as a teenager, which I think makes sense, since his jokester persona works well at that age.

Cyclops, meanwhile, is being an angsty loser, but this is well in keeping with what he does in the comics whenever Jean vanishes for a while; he left the team post-"Dark Phoenix", and he was going to post-"Planet X" until Jean made him love Emma instead.

Semi-different Brotherhood incarnation; Avalanche, the Blob, and Toad, but no Pyro, plus Quicksilver (so do these guys report to Big M, 'cause I would think that a foreign head of state's son running a domestic terrorist group would be a potential PR problem?) and Domino. Toad has an ickier redesign, but he's still lame (though that's kind of the point these days). On the subject of Avalanche, where is he in the comics these days? You always see him in adaptations but I've not seen him once in the 4+ years I've been reading X-Men comics.

The Brotherhood's setup of the group makes plenty of sense, since, from their perspective, the sooner the X-Men see things their way, the better everyone will be. That's what I like about the whole mutant dynamic, when done well. It's not just "muahahaha" stuff like it is with most such setups.
 
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Good review as always Dread. Like you, I also managed to find an online posting of it and many of the points you brought up I also happen to agree with. One of the things I found quite interesting was
The fact that it takes the "status quo" bending concepts from the comics such as the X-Men being disbanded, Xavier and Jean "out of commission," Mutant Registration, the "outlaw" X-Men, and uses that as a springboard for a status quo that seems actually doable. Perhaps it's in part why Wolverine, aside from his popularity, is going to be the leader of this group of X-Men as it reflects their "outlaw" status. Although, I imagine that Cyclops, having been the first X-Men, the one time leader of the group, and a person who is more devoted to Xavier's dream and sees him as a surrogate father would have to feel pretty pissed that the "psycho with claws" whose been hitting on his girl is made leader of the team by no less than Xavier himself if you see the trailer of the series. And I really agree that there seemed to be a lot more of a vibe that Rogue regards Logan as more than "just a friend" with her whole "We're the same, Logan" plea, which seemed, in so many words, about as close as an "How can I tell you I love you without actually saying it" speech.
 
I only saw part one this morning with logan and beast freeing that family.when is 2 on?
 
In part 3, Cyclops does make a pretty overt reaction when Xavier says Wolverine must be the leader.
 
Good review as always Dread. Like you, I also managed to find an online posting of it and many of the points you brought up I also happen to agree with. One of the things I found quite interesting was
The fact that it takes the "status quo" bending concepts from the comics such as the X-Men being disbanded, Xavier and Jean "out of commission," Mutant Registration, the "outlaw" X-Men, and uses that as a springboard for a status quo that seems actually doable. Perhaps it's in part why Wolverine, aside from his popularity, is going to be the leader of this group of X-Men as it reflects their "outlaw" status. Although, I imagine that Cyclops, having been the first X-Men, the one time leader of the group, and a person who is more devoted to Xavier's dream and sees him as a surrogate father would have to feel pretty pissed that the "psycho with claws" whose been hitting on his girl is made leader of the team by no less than Xavier himself if you see the trailer of the series. And I really agree that there seemed to be a lot more of a vibe that Rogue regards Logan as more than "just a friend" with her whole "We're the same, Logan" plea, which seemed, in so many words, about as close as an "How can I tell you I love you without actually saying it" speech.

To be fair, the X-Men have disbanded a few times, although as you said, it's rarely been shown in the cartoons.

I understand that Wolverine leading the team is more a matter of obligation due to popularity, but they didn't have to overplay their hand and virtually make him "Grandpa X-Man" before Xavier blew up. Again, take the entire episode as a whole, and it seemed out of character that he was leaving at all. Like, "oh, it's Logan, so that's his schtick."

As I mentioned in some past discussions, Wolverine and Cyclops appear to be swapping roles here, at least from promotional material. While Wolverine has been able to be okay written a variety of ways, Scott as a brooding emo loner is a bit out of type for him. It'll either sink or swim. But I still am interested.
 
It will swim.

This is not out of character for Scott. And he's still a major character in the series.
 
It will swim.

This is not out of character for Scott. And he's still a major character in the series.

Yeah, thank heaven for small miracles.

I don't think I've ever seen Scott become a beard stubble growing loser who takes orders from Wolverine and accepts that to Xavier, Logan's the chosen son. Usually when he goes off from the X-Men to run a pity party he either stays away or founds X-Factor. :p

Like I said, it will be very weird. He'll be playing against type. Cyclops isn't the rebel type. But we'll see how it goes. The pilot was more than good enough to interest me in more.
 
So no links yet huh?

There are a bunch of Spanish Eps on Youtube but i don't want to see them cuz i can't understand them.
 
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Maybe he'll usurp Logan's spot as the fan-favourite brooding loner.:cwink:

I doubt Cyclops will reach that level of popularity; the trenchcoat seems to mark that either they're trying too hard, or he raided Gambit's closet. But, it should be interesting. It is a bold idea I suppose, to swap roles for the two. It will either go down as utterly brilliant or horribly lackluster, depending on how it is executed.

After NEXT AVENGERS, which did nothing risky, I am gaining more respect for bold ideas, even if they don't pan out.
 
Yeah, thank heaven for small miracles.

I don't think I've ever seen Scott become a beard stubble growing loser who takes orders from Wolverine and accepts that to Xavier, Logan's the chosen son. Usually when he goes off from the X-Men to run a pity party he either stays away or founds X-Factor. :p

You've not read many X-men comics. You've not seen episode 3 either.

Like I said, it will be very weird. He'll be playing against type. Cyclops isn't the rebel type. But we'll see how it goes. The pilot was more than good enough to interest me in more.

He's not really being a rebel.

After NEXT AVENGERS, which did nothing risky, I am gaining more respect for bold ideas, even if they don't pan out.

This series definitely uses one. Making Cyclops a broken former leader, and having Wolverine step up to lead the team.
 
Just saw episode 2 .... it was awesome! Really liking how the show has started off and the direction that it is going. Wish that it was already playing in he US but I can deal with finding it somewhere else ... for the time being :)
 
You've not read many X-men comics. You've not seen episode 3 either.

I haven't seen episode 3 but I have read a lot of X-Men comics. Usually if Cyclops takes orders from anyone, it is Storm, but even then, he's usually off the team when he isn't leader in the comics.

He's not really being a rebel.

He may come off as more rebellious than Logan here.

This series definitely uses one. Making Cyclops a broken former leader, and having Wolverine step up to lead the team.
It's risky, we'll see how it comes off.
 
Just saw episode 2 .... it was awesome! Really liking how the show has started off and the direction that it is going. Wish that it was already playing in he US but I can deal with finding it somewhere else ... for the time being :)


where did u see tha second ep in english at?
 
I haven't seen episode 3 but I have read a lot of X-Men comics. Usually if Cyclops takes orders from anyone, it is Storm, but even then, he's usually off the team when he isn't leader in the comics.



He may come off as more rebellious than Logan here.


It's risky, we'll see how it comes off.

You said you like bold ideas in your own words. So I mean, you pretty much admit that this is on here. Putting this series on a higher level than the LG DVD's.
 
Well, while I enjoyed the first episode (I'm a crazy obsessed avid X-fan who can still watch X3 once a month even though it was horrible), the 2nd episode really blew it all out of the water and made me REALLY excited for the show. I can't wait to see what happens next!!!!!

Loving Domino in the brotherhood. Loved when she was playing pool, and got all the balls in the wholes while breaking. Loved Warren's introduction to the series, and it seems like they're setting it up that he used to be a member of the X-Men, probably at the very beginning, but wasn't an active member at the time of the disbanding, like he's been away.

And I LOVE how much is being held from us. I know that may sound weird, but the PROMISE of Storm and Cyclops and Emma and Nightcrawler being on the team is so anticipating and inviting, it's nice to see them not in this first storyarc. Keeping it simple with fewer characters, and holding these characters for a bit is a great idea. Though I'm guessing Emma comes in in the 3rd episode?

Another thing that's being held that I'm loving, is Genosha and Magneto and all that jazz - tho I bet that comes into play in the 3rd episode as well. I can't wait for Polaris (who's been abused in every form of non-comic x-ness), Mystique, Magneto, and the Scarlet Witch (who's been even more abused in every form of non-comic x-ness, tho she was a playable in XMLII).
 

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