Animation Official Wolverine And The X-men, "Hindsight 1-3" Discussion Thread

Blade X tho is pretty much a 616 purist so he doesn't like many deviations.

It is Domino and she is in the brotherhood. She believes in their cause. The mrd are locking innocent mutants up. So they feel justified in their retaliation.

Rogue joins because she is convinced by Domino and she is disapointed with how she feels Logan has ignored her feelings.
 
Blade X, that isnt a good point becauseyou said it yourself: "in the comics". This is a different continuity, and that there's plenty of characters to choose from, hasnt stopped other continuities from changing things.

And Domino seems to genuinely believe in what the brotherhood is doing so it would be completely out of left field if that happened and would be a bad twist.

IMO, the only bad twist is portraying a Marvel hero as a bad guy in an animated series. I'm a firm believer in portraying the comic characters consistently in all of their other media forms. Which is NOT to say that I'm opposed to any and all changes made to comic characters when they are adapted to other media, because I'm not.

Here's another possible theory about Domino, maybe she is really Copycat. Remember Copycat impersonated Domino for a time in the comics. The REAL Domino didn't make her first appearance until sometime later after the revelation that Copycat was impersonating her.

And again, this is nothing more then a fun theory/speculation on my part.
 
You should be happy that domino is in this series at all and she has a good role. She's not cookie cutter fodder. I don't see Domino in her portrayal as a bad malicious or evil person at all. In this case she simply went to the wrong side. But that doesn't make her a typical cliche villainess. Rogue herself was a brotherhood member before. But here she went from xmen to brotherhood.

All the character portrayals are executed in a logical and rational manner for this series.
 
You should be happy that domino is in this series at all and she has a good role. She's not cookie cutter fodder. I don't see Domino in her portrayal as a bad malicious or evil person at all. In this case she simply went to the wrong side. But that doesn't make her a typical cliche villainess. Rogue herself was a brotherhood member before. But here she went from xmen to brotherhood.

All the character portrayals are executed in a logical and rational manner for this series.


Maybe mistyke(or however u spell her name) will take over from there and then tha whole ms.marvel thing will happen............hopefully cuz i miss that 90s rouge, so hopefully she does get those superhuman powers maybe to carry on to tha next season after this story arc.......JUS A THOUGHT
 
Maybe mistyke(or however u spell her name) will take over from there and then tha whole ms.marvel thing will happen............hopefully cuz i miss that 90s rouge, so hopefully she does get those superhuman powers maybe to carry on to tha next season after this story arc.......JUS A THOUGHT

its mystique btw
and doesnt rogue already have superstrength? in ep.2 she barely pushes a dumpster and it slides down the alley.

and i for one, hope domino stays a baddie. I always thought she just didnt fit in with the X-men
 
its mystique btw
and doesnt rogue already have superstrength? in ep.2 she barely pushes a dumpster and it slides down the alley.

and i for one, hope domino stays a baddie. I always thought she just didnt fit in with the X-men

nope she doesnt have it yet BUT....im so glad they didnt do it cuz i really wanna see an episode arc based on it like her and ms.marvel meeting and evrything i JUS CANT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!this show has so much potential to be tha best but yea im pullin for ya rouge,OH and i have no complaints about storm i luved overflow she was great in it and she has been having sum good screentiem as well, NOW LETS JUS GET GAMBIT N COLOSSUS IN THERE
 
i saw it! it rocks! so excited for more!

the art is good, but i think evo had much better art. i hope they change the style just a little. there isnt enough detail!

but angel's body is pretty hot!
 
Thanks to CaptainCanada, I was able to catch Episode 2, otherwise known as "HINDSIGHT - PART TWO". Unlike the pilot, the episode seemed to lack a little less urgency, but that isn't to say it was without action. After all, most pilot episodes cram in as much as possible. Subsequent episodes build on it.

As always, full spoilers within.

After the obligatory recap of episode 1, the show gets off to an unexpected start...a good 5-6 minutes without the sight of Wolverine. I was fairly surprised, although considering Rogue and Beast are probably the second and third most popular and well known X-Men after Wolverine (with Cyclops and Gambit likely rounding out that top 5 of recognizability). Senator Kelly is holding a rally seeking support for the mutant registration act, and proposing a new instrument to combat the mutant threat; a purple spider-like robot that looked like it was on loan from the SPIDER SLAYERS trilogy from SPIDER-MAN:THE ANIMATED SERIES. Seriously, was not a fan of the design. The thing's programmed to only attack mutants, but because Rogue was secretly in the audience, it goes nuts and tries to attack her.

Rogue carries much of the episode here so some commentary on her is due. Kieren van den Blink gets more to do and she takes some getting used to; her Southern accent sometimes sounds awkward, but it gets better as it goes along. I'm still not a fan of the "anime eye through hair" bit, but she appears to be a little from both the comics and the movies in terms of design. She has the green hooded cloak from the original film, but a costume that is very close to her iconic 90's one, complete with the ill-fitting belt. She's also not a goth. Not that I minded it. In EVOLUTION, it made sense that she was isolated like that. Frankly, the EVOLUTION Rogue for me was the best version of the character yet put forth, and I didn't expect W&TXM's Rogue to surpass that. She's basically more like the comics, but like in EVOLUTION, there is focus on recruiting her into the Brotherhood very early in. Hey, the same fellas wrote both, right? I also like her power level here; I never was a major fan of the Ms. Marvel power-set and have preferred Rogue relying on her genuine mutant abilities, which have their strengths and drawbacks (rather than boring, permanent super strength/durability).

The high flying Angel comes to Rogue's rescue from the Spider-Slayer (all they needed was Sebastian Smythe snickering in the background); much like in Evolution, some symbolism is used with Angel's imagery, although his outfit is closer to the comics (actually, exactly from the comics), which is a shame because his EVOLUTION suit was, again, an update. But, at the very least, he launches an attack without needing razor wings (he drops a slab of concrete on the robot). Of course, EVOLUTION fans like me might draw parallels to "ON ANGEL'S WINGS", arguably the best episode of X-MEN EVOLUTION in which Angel saves Rogue from, uh, a nasty purple threat (in that case, Magneto). In a way, while this series is in no way connected to Evolution besides being an X-Men show, the creators do appear to be re-using certain elements or dynamics, which is fine so long as they mix and match well. Beast and Wolverine save the pair from the Spider-Slayer, and try to recruit them.

Warren is busy trying to use his money to help mutants and fears his father will cut off his trust fund if he returns to the X-Men, so Angel declines. Rogue, however, is clearly still perturbed at Wolverine for being halfway out the door when Xavier & Jean got nuked; she outright says that she won't be "abandoned" again by him. Is Logan an unreliable mentor or crush for Rogue? The writers keep it ambiguous, which is the best way to play it, especially as there are a few "made for network TV" angles to the action. More on that later.

I did like the conflict expressed throughout the episode with Warren of all characters; Kyle & Yost obviously like the winged X-Man more than some writers, and considering this is Wolverine's show and he's hardly popular, it was good to see some focus on him, even if I don't expect him to return more than once later on. Liam O'Brien, who also voices Nightcrawler, is fine as Angel, although my preference still goes to Mark Hildreth. Go FATAL FURY! I also liked the tension between Warren and Logan; in the comics, they barely tolerated each other, and this show uses that. Least everyone isn't all gung-Logan (yet).

I do have to admit, I rolled my eyes when not even Beast could dare to attack the Spider-Slayer and had to wait for Wolverine to save them. I mean, let's not make it TOO blatant.

Wolverine takes the interaction with Rogue to signal that "no one will join an X-Men led by me" because he has his rep of riding off into the sunset for various reasons. That leads him into the preview-shown confrontation with Scott Summers. The scene would have been better if we all hadn't seen it already, but that's the price of scoping sneak peaks sometimes. Scott naturally has taken losing Jean and the X-Men hard; he's staying at a dive apartment/hotel and decided that Logan and Beast aren't the only men who can get away without shaving monthly. And why bother putting batteries into a remote when you can just blast the TV? If this were a more mature show, I could have easily imagined a liquor bottle of some sort in Scott's hand, but because kids are watching, it's just emotional distress. Logan shows up and as we all know, picks a confrontation with Scott by pushing his buttons, which gets him a blast for his trouble. It still is hard to gauge Nolan North's Summers when he only gets 1-3 lines an episode, but he's doing fine so far.

Of course, it is one of those scenes where it couldn't have ended another way. Logan of course is going to push Scott's buttons at the slightest moment of weakness. He never thought Cyclops was "all that" or worthy of Jean's love, either in the comics, the 90's cartoon or the movies. Cyclops, of course, is knee deep in bitter angsting and isn't in the mood to hear crap from his rival, and I can understand that. The only downer is, of course, we know that Wolverine really does evolve into the leader of the X-Men so in a way he's kind of right, Cyclops isn't all that without Xavier backing him up or Jean's fawning. Logan's the one trying to rebuild the X-Men, not Scott. Of course, Scott never ran into a little kid who believed in him like Logan did, which always seems to inspire wayward superheroes. The scene's nothing I didn't expect. Cyclops will rejoin the team, of course, but he isn't leader material. That sort of thing wares thin since the moral of the three films was basically the same thing, but Kyle & Yost have more time to work with so things may turn out better. Again, casting Cyclops as the brooding loner to Wolverine's gung-ho leadership is a gutsy move, one that either will be decried as foolish or lauded as brilliant. It won't do anything for Cyclops' popularity (kids aren't stupid enough to fall for a repackaged gift; I'm sure most of them see the intro and go, "hey, he's wearing Gambit's coat"), but if the pair are written well together, and NOT as bosom buddies, it could work out.

Of course, who will get Cyclops to shape up? More than likely Emma Frost. He's nothing without a hot telepath around, but to be fair, that's how he's been written in the comics for the past few years, so Kyle & Yost can claim the sin of being accurate.

Toad, played by A.J. Buckley, gets arrested by cops, but is freed by the Brotherhood of Mutants, consisting of Blob (Stephon Stanton), Avalance (James Patrick Stuart), Quicksilver, and Domino as the token woman. While X-MEN EVOLUTION took time to introduce the Brotherhood one by one, this time they're all heaped out at once and resemble their comics counterparts more faithfully. Toad more resembles his Kubert design from Ultimate X-Men and that works best for him, anyway. Blob is back to being an impossibly fat man in a grotesque spandex outfit (with NO PANTS), but at least Avalanche doesn't have a Trouble Bubble Helmet or makes lame puns like, "Time to rock and roll!" Yes, yes, I know Evolution Lance eventually became a popular anti-hero and all that, but this Avalanche and Blob are back to goon status. Of course, this being a network TV show, great pains are made to show the police officers inside the cars that Blob tosses as alive and well, or later on, buildings that Avalanche collapses to be conveniently "abandoned". It does get a little annoying especially considering that the 2k3 era TMNT cartoon got around that stuff. They frequently showed vehicles or bases exploding and would not show people (usually Foot Ninja) escaping, presuming that they were killed (or mortally injured) without outright saying it. That I figured works better than reducing the Brotherhood to smashing empty structures.

Quicksilver leads the Brotherhood (under the watch of endless GENOSHA billboards featuring his father), and Quicksilver comes off a bit weird. The costume is faithful to the comics, but he has the face wrinkles of a 40 year old man, wearing an outfit that only Peter Pan could pull off. His voice is fine but Quicksilver is one of those characters who has never had a good costume design from the House of Ideas and benefits from any redesign you can find. Domino, being a wise femme fatale, is the one with the most influence over Rogue; the pair seem to know each other and it isn't said from where. They also don't quite explain Domino's power, although allude to the "luck" thing by having her win at pool just by breaking the balls. I never really cared for Domino and I certainly am not the one who is proud to see her attain supporting character status while Colossus is once again shoved into "two guest spots or less" status for the third time in a row. Her breasts did seem to be almost falling out of her leather outfit, though; very sexy for network TV. Rogue naturally is ill at ease with the Brotherhood's methods as they first destroy Sen. Kelly's house and then force Rogue into absorbing Mr. Worthington's memories, TKO'ing Warren in the raid. With knowledge of Kelly's schedule, the Brotherhood seemingly plans to assassinate him at the next public function.

With the short list of potential X-Men dwindling, Beast and Wolverine pay a visit to the home of Bobby Drake and literally kick down the door to get the kid to run away back to the X-Men. Drake's played by Yuri Lowenthal, who isn't a stranger to teen superheroes, having voiced Superman for two seasons in LEGION OF SUPERHEROES. Iceman's design here isn't bad; the best animated Iceman design was, of course, from SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS, but I liked this design better than his Evolution one, which I found a bit bland. This at least has more flair. Unlike the others so far, Iceman was eager to return to the X-Men and play hero again, which was a switch. Kitty Pryde had run away and hopped a boat to Genosha, but is easily persuaded to return. Danielle Judovits still isn't better in the role than Maggie Blue O'Hara was from Evolution, but she has less annoying material to work with. Her costume isn't bad, although I dislike the pigtails.

Rather than just snipe Kelly outright, though, Domino only stages a distraction while the X-Men, with a seemingly reformed Rogue with them, stage a rescue. Things get out of control as they wait until after the chopper is crashed and they pummel every trooper in the area to realize no Brotherhood are there. Even for Wolverine, it seemed obligatory and stupid. Couldn't he have just smelled that no Brotherhood were there? Or seen that no bright spandex was in the crowd? Not even Beast caught on. While I did like at least that in this episode, Logan was hardly a perfect X-Man, setting up the team could have been handled a little better. I don't mind Wolverine making errors in leadership, so long as he isn't just stupidly inept, which is out of character. Frankly, I was surprised he so easily trusted Rogue again. No one in the audience was, though. Even without trailers, it was fairly obvious.

The Brotherhood seemingly won round one, setting up the X-Men for the attack on Kelly and provoking the fight they want, as well as getting Rogue to join them. Quicksilver's trying to be his father's son, but whenever he tries to be scary, he just comes off as a bit...well...not. The writers get a lot of comic mileage out of Toad, though.

And anyone notice Logan wearing his same clothes from Evolution?

Bottom line, the episode was fine. Not packing quite as much punch as the pilot, but still getting a lot done in 22 minutes. The rapport between Wolverine and Beast is again a highlight, with Blum and Tatiasciore working well off each other's lines. The tone is mature, albeit with censorship woes in terms of violence. The animation was shakey at times, but on par with most TV shows. Still, it's off to a strong start, and I am curious how HINDSIGHT PART 3 will leave things (besides with the X-Men reassembled, of course).
 
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i have ep 1 and 2 in my playlist on youtube so just go on my acount and go to my playlist and my acount name is joshthesmart
 
Watched the second episode and like almost everyone said, it was way better than the first one. Really wish X3 had developed Warren in the same way as here. As for Rogue, I’m pretty sure she’ll re-join the X-men. She showed reluctance and guilt twice when she was with the Brotherhood. If the X-men re-banding doesn’t convince her, then perhaps in the future Ms. Marvel can. But if the creators of the show do decide on something like that, I really don’t want the power transfer to be permanent or maybe some powers are permanent and others aren’t. Like to see a few changes :yay:
 
I'd love to see Rogue back on the X-Men, but from what I've heard...it doesn't happen soon...
 
Watched the second episode and like almost everyone said, it was way better than the first one. Really wish X3 had developed Warren in the same way as here. As for Rogue, I’m pretty sure she’ll re-join the X-men. She showed reluctance and guilt twice when she was with the Brotherhood. If the X-men re-banding doesn’t convince her, then perhaps in the future Ms. Marvel can. But if the creators of the show do decide on something like that, I really don’t want the power transfer to be permanent or maybe some powers are permanent and others aren’t. Like to see a few changes :yay:

yeah i hope she gets super strength and flight,its not rogue without em!
 
I think it's time to close the book on the Ms. Marvel powers with Rogue.

To me, it's silly to give her all that on top of the absorbing powers. With the absorbing powers she could have the powers of basically any mutant she wants.

Yeah she started with them, but I think over-powering certain characters is a big problem. If Rogue can briefly use any character's mutations or powers, I feel that's enough for the character.
 
I think it's time to close the book on the Ms. Marvel powers with Rogue.

To me, it's silly to give her all that on top of the absorbing powers. With the absorbing powers she could have the powers of basically any mutant she wants.

Yeah she started with them, but I think over-powering certain characters is a big problem. If Rogue can briefly use any character's mutations or powers, I feel that's enough for the character.

I agree. When Rogue has the "permanent" Ms. Marvel powers atop her regular ones, it becomes too easy to just use her as a flying tanker, like the 90's cartoon did. Heck, most of the time her "actual" powers were rarely used. She would usually just fly and deck things. And while that was fine for a 90's show that wanted to use Rogue's then-current power level (and they did spend a whole episode showing the origins and consequences of her Ms. Marvel powers in Season 2), I like other interpretations of her powers.

The films and X-MEN EVOLUTION for me re-introduced the notion of Rogue relying on her actual mutant powers instead of being a Ms. Marvel Lite. The comics started shifting her power levels to reflect this as well, and while for a few years it was a mess, it eventually did work out. It makes things more dramatic if Rogue can't just rely on Class 40 strength, flight, and invulnerability in every fight; she has to rely on absorbing someone else's powers, which always risks their deaths. While this is fine against someone like Toad, against, say, a large robot, things get more dicey. That creates suspense.

That said, X-MEN EVOLUTION did make Rogue's absorption powers virtually unbeatable after Season 1; any character, even Magneto, could be instantly TKO'd and have their full powers drained from the slightest tap, and that was a bit too far (especially after Season 1, when Rogue was unable to fully drain Blob's power, she was simply able to really weaken him).

Hopefully, WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN avoids that trap for Rogue within 26 episodes. So far, so good. I did like seeing a variation of her iconic outfit return.
 
Right. It also eliminates the necessity of having to spend time on how Rogue got super strength, invulnerability, and flight powers.

That's narrative economy people :D .
 
OMG OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!ep.13 was crazy good and im talkin nonstop action THIS SERIES HAS TO GO ON>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Right. It also eliminates the necessity of having to spend time on how Rogue got super strength, invulnerability, and flight powers.

That's narrative economy people :D .

Exactly.
 
For those who liked 2, 3 is even better. :) In my opinion atleast. Less action, but the story progresses more Id say.
 
I said elsewhere, if you aren't into the show by episode 3, you probably won't be into the show.

3 is really the episode where everything is fully established and pretty much sets the tone for the rest of the season. You get a better picture of where things are heading.

I think people are going to like what happens in this episode. I think so much is made clear on why the series is the way it is.

This series is very much what I wanted X-men 3 to truly be. People complain that there's too much anime around and all that.

Well this is the show you've been waiting for. If you are going to complain so much that all the networks do is get anime and NOT watch this show, then you don't deserve new, original animation.
 
I said elsewhere, if you aren't into the show by episode 3, you probably won't be into the show.

3 is really the episode where everything is fully established and pretty much sets the tone for the rest of the season. You get a better picture of where things are heading.

I think people are going to like what happens in this episode. I think so much is made clear on why the series is the way it is.

This series is very much what I wanted X-men 3 to truly be. People complain that there's too much anime around and all that.

Well this is the show you've been waiting for. If you are going to complain so much that all the networks do is get anime and NOT watch this show, then you don't deserve new, original animation.

Vile if u dont mind pming me or tellin me where u saw or downloaded tha 3rd ep could u tell me plzzz thx
 
I saw the third episode at San Diego Comic Con. No downloading :D .

I posted my thoughts on the entire pilot in the Con thread. You can read them there.

They showed parts 1-3 of Hindsight as a pilot preview.

Since 1-3 are meant to be watched together, that is why I feel Nicktoons should air it as one big event before January.
 

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