Old Birds of Prey Discussion Thread

[Enriquespy]

"Older Montoya" now counts as a disgrace?

wat

 

[Da-Scribe]

I genuinely don't give **** about fidelity. Just cast the best person for the story you're telling.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

I was kinda hoping for surprise announcement of Michelle Rodriguez

same, i've been hoping she'd get the part for years. right age, right look, right attitude and acting, right action experience, perfectly convincing

i like perez, but i thinks she's too old for the character, but it seems like they're just going to go with an older montoya

 

[semper]

"Older Montoya" now counts as a disgrace?

wat

Yeah...think about it. How many Latina/Lesbian superheroes in comics can you think of?

It's basically Montoya. She represents a very underserved demographic in the genre. In a BOP movie they deserve to have this character as a superhero or potential superhero. When you cast someone as old as Perez, you are making that clear you have no intention to do that.

So yeah. A disgrace. Think about demographics that relate directly to to Montoya character over the years. A gay Latina who sees Montoya as a prime, young superhero in the comics and how much inspiration that gives them.

Only for them to turn Montoya into a nearly retirement age cop, who clearly won't be as important

 

[Micromind]

But all this casting tells me (from my possibly skewed perspective) is that Robbie doesn't want competition and I wish she wasn't a producer on it. Actress fine though. But I feel the casting and some of the decisions would look at lot different if Robbie didn't require appeasing

Your reasoning is flawed, if that were the case, WB wouldn't have gone after Lady Gaga, who is going to get a lot of praise for her performance in ASIB. Had she accepted the role for Black Canary, she would have got more attention from general audiences than Margot Robbie.

 

[misslane38]

I think it's laughable to suggest that an older Montoya would be less inspiring than a younger one. Young women and young people are inspired by older women too. Plus, there are plenty of young role models in the genre, so why not give older women and older people in general someone who can prove that being 50 years-old isn't a handicap. There are plenty of women Perez's age who are still hot and badass, including in the DCEU (e.g. Robin Wright's Antiope). Spare me the ageism dressed up as concern for representation and inspiration.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It's also insane to me that you're pinning all of this on Margot as if she's incapable of maintaining in semblance of professionalism and inserted herself into the casting process so as to guarantee all erections start and end with Harley Quinn.

This whole things smacks of thinly veiled ageism/sexism.

 

[semper]

I think it's laughable to suggest that an older Montoya would be less inspiring than a younger one. Young women and young people are inspired by older women too. Plus, there are plenty of young role models in the genre, so why not give older women and older people in general someone who can prove that being 50 years-old isn't a handicap. There are plenty of women Perez's age who are still hot and badass, including in the DCEU (e.g. Robin Wright's Antiope). Spare me the ageism dressed up as concern for representation and inspiration.

Absolutely, older women deserve some form of representation.

But you don't have to take away the ONE Latina/Lesbian superhero in her prime to do that. Invent a new older female cop character. Call her Latoya instead. Use the character of Maggie Sawyer, who has always seemed older, and never developed a superhero alter ego that has a passionate following.

There are dozens of workable alternatives to provide inspirational older woman representation than to rip away the possibility of Montoya being a major superhero force in her own right. Of being The Question. Of getting her own spin-off. Because 55 year old Latina supporting actresses don't get their own spin-off franchises. We already know there is a ceiling for this character now because they cast Perez.

Spin it whatever way you want, this casting is a dagger in the heart to Montoya fans who want to see her reach her potential in movies.

 

[semper]

It's also insane to me that you're pinning all of this on Margot as if she's incapable of maintaining in semblance of professionalism and inserted herself into the casting process so as to guarantee all erections start and end with Harley Quinn.

This whole things smacks of thinly veiled ageism/sexism.

Proof is in the pudding.

 

[Enriquespy]

I'm a fan of Montoya and I like the casting. I mean I can see why Semper might not like it and that's ok, but I stand by my hype.

 

[Loki882]

Or Vic Sage is going to be The Question and Renee will just be a cop. You know like it was in the comics for DECADES and currently is now, and was in the DCAU as well.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Proof is in the pudding.

Oh yes, on that we can agree.

 

[semper]

Or Vic Sage is going to be The Question and Renee will just be a cop. You know like it was in the comics for DECADES and currently is now, and was in the DCAU as well.

Well the makers of this BOP film seem bent on using the 'diversity' and 'representation' arguments to justify changes in casting. But if they are going that route, then obviously it makes more sense to develop the ONE Latina/Lesbian superhero character in comics into a potential force that could lead her own film one day.

Not regress her into a much older supporting character with no spin-off potential, so Vic Sage (another straight white male) will become the easier Question alternative to later filmmakers in the DCEU franchise

 

[misslane38]

Well the makers of this BOP film seem bent on using the 'diversity' and 'representation' arguments to justify changes in casting. But if they are going that route, then obviously it makes more sense to develop the ONE Latina/Lesbian superhero character in comics into a potential force that could lead her own film one day.

Not regress her into a much older supporting character with no spin-off potential, so Vic Sage (another straight white male) will become the easier Question alternative to later filmmakers in the DCEU franchise

There would be nothing wrong with an older female lead of a comic book movie. I mean, Robert Downey Jr. is as old as Rosie Perez, and I doubt people would have a problem with him doing another Iron Man movie at his age. Also, not every character should or will get solos, and that's okay. I think it's doubtful any version of the Question would spin off.

 

[Yellow Cyclone]

RDJ is as old as perez NOW, and is rumored to hang up the suit in A4, he's been iron man for over 11 years

i think it's a fair point on montoya's actress age because all the talk about "diversity" will be seen as insincere when BoP could easily be a backdoor movie for half the characters involved in the future, renee/question/gotham central included

 

[misslane38]

RDJ is as old as perez NOW, and is rumored to hang up the suit in A4, he's been iron man for over 11 years

i think it's a fair point on montoya's actress age because all the talk about "diversity" will be seen as insincere when BoP could easily be a backdoor movie for half the characters involved in the future, renee/question/gotham central included

Does anyone seriously believe that Renee Montoya had a serious chance at a solo film? She's hardly ever even a lead in comic books. Black Canary, Huntress, and Batgirl are far more likely to get solos before Montoya.

Not to mention that Tom Cruise and Harrison Ford were and are still doing the action hero lead thing well into their fifties, and I doubt Montoya would even be as demanding as some of those roles are. The faux outrage about this is laughable if it wasn't so predictable and disappointing.

 

[Loki882]

Heck Harrison is doing another Indiana Jones film and he'll be near 80 by that time. Also Sly Stallone is still doing action films into his 60's. I doubt that Montoya will constantly be fist fighting or anything.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Age is only a problem when it comes with ovaries.

 

[Iceman]

Babyface Cruise looks younger than some of the guys in their late 30s so he doesn't count lol.

 

[semper]

There would be nothing wrong with an older

Does anyone seriously believe that Renee Montoya had a serious chance at a solo film? She's hardly ever even a lead in comic books. Black Canary, Huntress, and Batgirl are far more likely to get solos before Montoya..

Why couldn't Montoya (as The Question) potentially carry a movie one day?

Blade has never really been able to support an ongoing solo in comics, yet could carry his own movie trilogy.

No one has ever cared about Ant-man (Scott Lang) as a solo comic book, yet the character now has 2 movies that have grossed over a billion dollars.

The Question is an interesting character/concept that had at least one incredible solo run by Dennis O'Neil and Debts Cowan in the 1980''s that could easily provide some interesting material for Question film (even though Vic Sage was the lead there).

Plenty of supeheros who have never really held down solos have greater cinematic potential than many who have. It's a poor excuse now. Renee/The Question has greater cinematic potential for a solo movie than some others, because she's not as generic. The faceless mask, the Latina/Lesbian background...she's more unique than someone like Black Canary, who might have a bigger comic following, but might not make for as interesting a movie solo.

 

[Abudefduf]

I think Montoya has a more significant fan base than Bill Foster (whom Fishburne plays). In terms of Latina and Lesbian representation in comics (Which is limited), Montoya has been quite significant in the last 2 decades. She's someone I feel they had more of a duty to get right. A younger woman that can convincingly play an active superhero. There are other characters you can get to play a 55 year old cop. Get Montoya right.

I think this is a reasonable opinion to have, and one I can relate to since I'm still mad at what Marvel Studios did to Janet Van Dyne. You're a fan of Montoya and you don't think the actress is right for the part... there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's kind of hard to deny that Perez doesn't really look much like the character.

It's everything else you said that... it just undermined your argument. I strongly doubt Robbie is trying to pull a Queen Grimhilde and intentionally casting actresses less attractive than her. Come on.

 

[Enriquespy]

Am I the only one that suddenly has the urge to go watch Perdita Durango?
No?

Just me?

 

[Guts]

Yeah...think about it. How many Latina/Lesbian superheroes in comics can you think of?

It's basically Montoya. She represents a very underserved demographic in the genre. In a BOP movie they deserve to have this character as a superhero or potential superhero. When you cast someone as old as Perez, you are making that clear you have no intention to do that.

So yeah. A disgrace. Think about demographics that relate directly to to Montoya character over the years. A gay Latina who sees Montoya as a prime, young superhero in the comics and how much inspiration that gives them.

Only for them to turn Montoya into a nearly retirement age cop, who clearly won't be as important

Isn't Montoya supposed to be a rookie around the same time that Bruce first starts his career as Batman though? It would make sense for her to be older in a universe where Batman has already been around for 20+ years.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

same, i've been hoping she'd get the part for years. right age, right look, right attitude and acting, right action experience, perfectly convincing

i like perez, but i thinks she's too old for the character, but it seems like they're just going to go with an older montoya

Absolutely!

 

[The Guard]

I think it's laughable to suggest that an older Montoya would be less inspiring than a younger one. Young women and young people are inspired by older women too. Plus, there are plenty of young role models in the genre, so why not give older women and older people in general someone who can prove that being 50 years-old isn't a handicap. There are plenty of women Perez's age who are still hot and badass, including in the DCEU (e.g. Robin Wright's Antiope). Spare me the ageism dressed up as concern for representation and inspiration.

This.

I'm cool with seeing a different side of Rene Montoya.