Comics One More Day Discussion Thread

[kguillou]

Originally posted by Blader5489
Uh...he only said it was cut out because of OMD's terrible delays. Considering that Norman and the Thunderbolts will be appearing in ASM later this year, and an issue of New Avengers this summer will focus entirely on Spider-Man, I think it's a safe bet that we will see reactions to the new status quo in other books.

I just wanna ask, when was this announced? A full issue just for Spidey?

 

[Apprentice]

I'm not sure when it was announced, but I believe that it's issue #44 and it'll be a tie-in to Secret Invasion.

 

[iloveclones]

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35318

The one thing to realize is that when you think about every hallmark, watershed moment in the history of comics, whether that be at Marvel, DC or anywhere, they all have one thing in common.

Change to the status quo.

Absolutely correct. I just looked through the Best Spidey stories thread, and it is dominated by those kind of stories: Death of Jean DeWolff, Kraven's Last Hunt, Death of Harry Osborn, Death of Aunt May, Death of Green Goblin, The Night Gwen Stacy Died, Death Of Captain Stacy...it makes me wonder if spidey fans won't be happy until the entire cast is killed off
Green Goblin Unmasked (a major turning point and story fodder for years in Spidey)
Boy who collected Spider-Man (first time he willingly divulged his identity to a stranger)

Look at the "most memorable" of the rest of the MU

Death of Jean Grey
Death of Elektra
Death of Karen Page
DD's outing (to get away from death for a bit.)

And people complained about all of those, too, almost without exception (Boy who collected Spider-Man would be it)

 

[Cullen]

"The Boy who collected Spider-Man" sucked. No fights at all.

(This is, of course, a joke. However, had I read it when it first came out(back in my fabled youth), I would have preferred the Thunderball stuff, 'cause it had a fight in it.

(Long story short, there isn't a story out there everyone likes (or hates))

 

[Brand]

Given that MJ was seen in the "new day" portion of OMD, and Harry mentioned how Pete almost married a supermodel once, I don't think they're flat out ignoring MJ.

And I again, I think you're blowing things out of proportion.

They showed her for all of two seconds at Harry's party to highlight that her relationship with Peter was history. We haven't seen "MJ" since then, only Jackpot. They even made it a point to tell us that she had moved out to California, which is the ONLY thing that makes me question whether or not Jackpot is MJ. ASM #546 said that Jackpot was New York's officially licensed superhero. It would be awfully hard for MJ to fulfill those duties living across the country.

Let's be honest now. MJ isn't COMPLETELY gone from the books, but her role is just a tiny fraction of what it once was; she's been traded off for Carlie. In a few months to a year, Carlie will be pushed aside only to be replaced by Rachel, the new employee at the Coffee Bean, who will in turn eventually be replaced perhaps by a young police officer, Dannielle.

After all, isn't that what every Spider-Man fan wants to read?

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

When I read your post, I thought WTF??? JQ's nuts...

But when you read the article, he makes a valid point. I'm not suggesting one way or the other if that was the correct direction I would have taken Spider-Man, but he makes a valid point nonetheless.

Two sides to every story...

No he doesn't.

Apparently, TMOB, I and you & Joey have vastly different views of what actually constitutes the term "heroic."

Heroism is most often doing the most difficult thing, not the easiest thing.

In this case, a true hero would have understood that he was about to enter into a Satanic bargain from which no lasting good could possibly come. A hero would have done the HARD thing and stepped back from the quick fix.

The type of person who thinks JQ made a valid point are those who would argue that there was a legitimate justification for murder or child abuse because some positive result could be tied to it. That's pathetic (although quite human) and it's not something that I would expect from The Man Of Bat.

Two sides to every story indeed. Moral relativism = evil, in case you forgot. It is the chosen language of villians.

 

[Blader5489]

I just wanna ask, when was this announced? A full issue just for Spidey?

Yeah. It doesn't mean the other Avengers will be absent, but Spidey will be the focus of the story (which also debunks the theory that he's a Skrull).

From Independent Comics:

- Issue #44 (July). Penciller: Billy Tan. On this issue, readers will be treated to Spider-Man’s role in the invasion. Bendis said this issue will be the “first time Spider-Man’s taken the the spotlight of an Avengers book”

 

[Themanofbat]

No he doesn't.

Apparently, TMOB, I and you & Joey have vastly different views of what actually constitutes the term "heroic."

Heroism is most often doing the most difficult thing, not the easiest thing.

In this case, a true hero would have understood that he was about to enter into a Satanic bargain from which no lasting good could possibly come. A hero would have done the HARD thing and stepped back from the quick fix.

The type of person who thinks JQ made a valid point are those who would argue that there was a legitimate justification for murder or child abuse because some positive result could be tied to it. That's pathetic (although quite human) and it's not something that I would expect from The Man Of Bat.

Two sides to every story indeed. Moral relativism = evil, in case you forgot. It is the chosen language of villians.

I'm not disagreeing with you... it's just that AFTER I read the article, he made some good points on that "deal with the devil" notion... I'm not saying it's "heroic" either, but he states a valid claim for him to see it as such.

 

[Dark Spidey]

So after reading that interview... MJ doesn't remember anything? Then what was that side-deal she made with Mephisto?

It made sense to me. I mean, Mephisto asks what she can offer him. She whispers "let me remember" as it would obviously be more painful for her, thus, more enjoyment for Mephisto.

Then the clock strikes twelve. Peter's at Harry's surprise party. We see MJ looking at him with extreme sadness written all over her face.

It had to be that. So now what? What was the side-deal!?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Yeah. It doesn't mean the other Avengers will be absent, but Spidey will be the focus of the story (which also debunks the theory that he's a Skrull).

From Independent Comics:

Cool, I will be picking it up when it comes out.

 

[Blader5489]

So after reading that interview... MJ doesn't remember anything? Then what was that side-deal she made with Mephisto?

It made sense to me. I mean, Mephisto asks what she can offer him. She whispers "let me remember" as it would obviously be more painful for her, thus, more enjoyment for Mephisto.

Then the clock strikes twelve. Peter's at Harry's surprise party. We see MJ looking at him with extreme sadness written all over her face.

It had to be that. So now what? What was the side-deal!?

If MJ does remember (which I think she does) then Quesada certainly isn't going to spoil it now. Wacker already said that what MJ whispered isn't going to be addressed for a long time.

 

[Dark Spidey]

If MJ does remember (which I think she does) then Quesada certainly isn't going to spoil it now. Wacker already said that what MJ whispered isn't going to be addressed for a long time.

I know but my concern is that going into next months arc, which heavily features MJ/Jackpot. How do I read the character? That she knows... or she doesn't know?

 

[Themanofbat]

I know but my concern is that going into next months arc, which heavily features MJ/Jackpot. How do I read the character? That she knows... or she doesn't know?

Therein lies the mystery...

... if it is MJ...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

After reading the interview, it's obvious JQ does not care. I mean seriously, he acts like there are people who actually liked OMD when really pretty much nobody did. He also mentions that it's heroic for him to make a deal with the Mephisto, but how is that? Peter has had to make choices in the comics and the films, which is really what it's all about. Peter should have said no and still tried to save Aunt May and stay married to MJ. That would have been much more heroic.

 

[Themanofbat]

After reading the interview, it's obvious JQ does not care. I mean seriously, he acts like there are people who actually liked OMD when really pretty much nobody did. He also mentions that it's heroic for him to make a deal with the Mephisto, but how is that? Peter has had to make choices in the comics and the films, which is really what it's all about. Peter should have said no and still tried to save Aunt May and stay married to MJ. That would have been much more heroic.

While many here will have many negative things to say about JQ, the one thing you cannot say is that he "doesn't care".

While I certainly do NOT agree with everything the man has done as EIC of Marvel, I DO believe that he does it for the best interest of the characters, whether is actually is or not... he truly believes that a single Peter Parker is better for Spider-Man in the long run, and whether that's true or not is subjective, but that's what he believes (as do his superiors) and that's the route Marvel wanted to take the character.

And Peter could have said no, but his Aunt would have died... it came to that point, and it's still a decision that Peter, in his heart, did NOT want to do, but Mary Jane pushed him to agree...

There really was no "heroism" involved in this story... just a poor man backed into a corner he just could not find a way out of.

 

[iloveclones]

That's not obvious at all. I mean, really, what do you expect him to say? What do you expect actors to say when their movies are critically panned? They have to go out and promote it. Stan Lee once gushed over the (original) Punisher movie and Howard the Duck. Does that make him a hack and company man? Maybe. But not care? Hardly.

 

[farmernudie]

I like some of the quotes from ERIK LARSEN on all this OMD/BND mess.....


"I thought the actual story that saw print was incredibly stupid. There were occasional nice lines in there, but the basis of the Devil stepping in and monkeying with this marriage was just ridiculous. Peter and MJ did not have this perfect ideal marriage that was so different and special and noteworthy from everybody else that it stood out as something idyllic and ideal. That part of it just rang untrue. The two had all kinds of problems and that made Mephisto's rationale just nonsensical!"

And the thing is, historically speaking in literature, a deal with the devil always is something bad....in movies, books, etc. This one however is set up as something good by Joe. JQ says it is a "heroic" choice. It futhered his agenda, "and it is look forward now mentality" Joe keeps saying with this story. They're not revisting this as something bad, to fall apart somehow. It was Joe's means to ending the marriage-so this deal with the devil is a GOOD thing. Heroic even?!

"Still, I can’t help but think that readers aren’t going to be quite as willing to believe that the “next big event” won't be similarly written out of existence when the wind changes."

We all know BND will get retconned, it's only a matter of time. So why buy more issues that won't matter?? When does the customer get so hacked off for Joe doing this with Spidey fans?


"I really do think it should become undone -- I think Mephisto's scheme should unravel and bits and pieces get discovered and the word should get out. And I think they should do this for several reasons. First, I think it’s unfair purely in a storytelling sense to have the Devil just “make things right” and vanish forever. That’s not the way Mephisto has been established -- and it’s not playing fair. Second, it throws far too many stories into a murky semi-limbo. It’s very vague what really happened over the course of the last 200+ issues of the “Amazing Spider-Man.” Too many issues hinged on the marriage or MJ’s knowledge of Peter’s dual identity. It’s simply asking too much to expect readers to reconcile all of that themselves."

That's why so many people are on here ASKING THESE QUESTIONS!?

History is TOTALLY COMPLETELY ALTERED. How do you reconcile alternate worlds/histories...especially in an overly pick and choose ripple effect agenda, lazily done like this.

"The biggest problem -- in the future -- would be that it would be hard to play some of these same notes again; that "Aunt May is too fragile to handle the truth about Peter being Spider-Man" or that "Peter needs to protect his secret identity in order to protect his loved ones" when we've seen both of those played out in print. In the latest issue -- out this week -- there’s a bad guy who is on the trail of figuring out who Spider-Man is. How much suspense is there when, just two weeks ago, Spider-Man’s identity being public knowledge was the status quo? After the marriage and the efforts made to undo it, why should we, as readers, believe any relationship he has in the future will ever lead to him getting married again? They’re pretty much told the readers that Peter’s life is never going to progress past a certain point."

Exactly, what suspense is there in anyoone figuring out Spidey's identity now. We've just done it, and PEte can go to Satan again and mess witht he entire planet's minds again. And who cares if Aunt May finds out again. She already has. And who cares if Pete dates again, he already has, and THIS TIME, it can't go anywhere.

"The back issues are still out there and readers can still read them if that’s what they want to do. The suits in charge at Marvel aren’t breaking into people’s houses and throwing out issues of Spider-Man that don’t jibe with the new reality."

Aha...another creator, of many, I've read lately calling what they did to spidey a new reality or alternate reality.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

While many here will have many negative things to say about JQ, the one thing you cannot say is that he "doesn't care".

While I certainly do NOT agree with everything the man has done as EIC of Marvel, I DO believe that he does it for the best interest of the characters, whether is actually is or not... he truly believes that a single Peter Parker is better for Spider-Man in the long run, and whether that's true or not is subjective, but that's what he believes (as do his superiors) and that's the route Marvel wanted to take the character.

And Peter could have said no, but his Aunt would have died... it came to that point, and it's still a decision that Peter, in his heart, did NOT want to do, but Mary Jane pushed him to agree...

There really was no "heroism" involved in this story... just a poor man backed into a corner he just could not find a way out of.

By "he doesn't care", I meant that he doesn't care about what we think. Don't get me wrong, JQ is entitled to his own opinion about whether Peter is better single and you know as well as I do that single Peter parker is great to have, but a married Peter makes the character grow and somewhat change and learn new things.

As for there not being any heroism involved, I'm sure there could have been. JQ just made it so that MJ forced him to do it, when really Peter should have tried to save both. Now I know that Mephisto is very powerful, but it would have been better if peter didn't back down and give into what MJ wanted him to do. I mean take ASM Issue #'s 31-33, Peter was so worried about his Aunt and he did not pay attention to Gwen, Flash, Harry, and others. Then he whent on a rampage when he found out his Aunt was in bad shape. Then, in ASM Issue #33 Spider-Man is trapped under a bunch of debris and almost gives up, but he thinks about Aunt May and Uncle Ben and he tries his hardest to lift the debris and he does. That's true heroism right there.

Another thing that would have been heroic is Peter sacrificing himself instead of the marriage ending. Spidey wouldn't have had to die, but he would have put his life on the line. There are also other things that could have worked.

That's just what I think, Themanofbat, and like I said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[Jamh]

I'm not disagreeing with you... it's just that AFTER I read the article, he made some good points on that "deal with the devil" notion... I'm not saying it's "heroic" either, but he states a valid claim for him to see it as such.

No he doesn't make a valid claim. What he described was a case of collateral damage and it's been happening in comics for years, whether the hero was masked or unmasked doesn't make a difference. Any time a superhero gets involved with criminals, especially ones with guns, there's the risk that someone will get hurt because of it. Does that mean that any time something like that happens they should make a deal with evil incarnate to change things? No. Evil begets evil, anyone with half a brain knows that any deal with the devil will leave things worse off than what they were before. I'm not saying it would be an easy choice to make, but in the end the answer would be/should be NO.

There's a big difference though in what was done to Aunt May. Before Peter unmasked he went to both MJ and Aunt May asking for their advice on what he should do. The moment they encouraged him to do it they both accepted RESPONSIBILITY for any and all consequences that stemmed from that act. They ALL knew the risks involved and were only deluding themselves if they thought no attempts would be made. That's one of the things that annoys me the most about this crap, both the unmasking and this "deal with the devil" BS tried to deflect the responsibility of Peter's actions off to someone else. As much as Spider-Man's motto is repeated in the comics it's sad to see him completely ignore it.

 

[Themanofbat]

We all know BND will get retconned, it's only a matter of time. So why buy more issues that won't matter??

I don't think that will be happening anytime soon... maybe never.

I personally hope that it doesn't... just for the simple fact that we will be in an even BIGGER MESS than what we have now, and at least BND is enjoyable to my 40 year old eyes, so I'll take what I have now and ENJOY IT... as opposed to being p1ssed off and have to wait a few more years to get the same garbage I was getting prior and up to OMD.

No thanks... I want good comics NOW!!! and thanks to BND, I am.

 

[Themanofbat]

No he doesn't make a valid claim. What he described was a case of collateral damage and it's been happening in comics for years, whether the hero was masked or unmasked doesn't make a difference. Any time a superhero gets involved with criminals, especially ones with guns, there's the risk that someone will get hurt because of it. Does that mean that any time something like that happens they should make a deal with evil incarnate to change things? No. Evil begets evil, anyone with half a brain knows that any deal with the devil will leave things worse off than what they were before. I'm not saying it would be an easy choice to make, but in the end the answer would be/should be NO.

There's a big difference though in what was done to Aunt May. Before Peter unmasked he went to both MJ and Aunt May asking for their advice on what he should do. The moment they encouraged him to do it they both accepted RESPONSIBILITY for any and all consequences that stemmed from that act. They ALL knew the risks involved and were only deluding themselves if they thought no attempts would be made. That's one of the things that annoys me the most about this crap, both the unmasking and this "deal with the devil" BS tried to deflect the responsibility of Peter's actions off to someone else. As much as Spider-Man's motto is repeated in the comics it's sad to see him completely ignore it.

I don't think Peter has ever really shrugged his responsibility much over the years, but we can argue his decisions... making deals with Venom, a known KILLER... how is that any different than makinga deal with Satan, a known BAD GUY??? OMD did indeed suck major league donkey balls (I need to cut'n paste that comment), but he reluctantly made the choice and it wouldn't be the first time in 45+ years of Spider-Man history that Peter "made a bad decision"....

 

[Dark Spidey]

Therein lies the mystery...

... if it is MJ...

I know! I was thinking about this. How this kind of adds a depth of intrigue to the character. Makes it all the more interesting.

So I think when it comes to it. Even though I have my suspicions that she knows... I'll read it as though she doesn't know.

And Jackpot has got to be MJ. There were even references to being a model in her back-up story in #546. Seriously. I hope she is! I'll actually be disappointed if it's not her. lol

 

[Dark Spidey]

We all know BND will get retconned, it's only a matter of time. So why buy more issues that won't matter?? When does the customer get so hacked off for Joe doing this with Spidey fans?

ALL issues of The Amazing Spider-Man matter.

And you will be waiting a long, long time for Brand New Day to get retconned... So you might as well pick up a copy and enjoy the ride.

 

[Jamh]

I don't think Peter has ever really shrugged his responsibility much over the years, but we can argue his decisions... making deals with Venom, a known KILLER... how is that any different than makinga deal with Satan, a known BAD GUY??? OMD did indeed suck major league donkey balls (I need to cut'n paste that comment), but he reluctantly made the choice and it wouldn't be the first time in 45+ years of Spider-Man history that Peter "made a bad decision"....

At that time Venom was an anti-hero, so making a deal with him was no worse than making a deal with the Punisher or to a lesser extent Wolverine (both known KILLERS). I'm not saying Peter hasn't made bad decisions, we all do, however making a deal with the devil is beyond bad it's just plain stupid. Altering history and reality, not to mention sacrificing the love of your life, to save your dying aunt who already accepted responsibility for such a fate when she talked you into unmasking in the first place is completely insane. There is nothing more irresponsible than that, I guess "With great power comes great responsibility" doesn't apply when dealing with the devil. Let's not even get into the horrible portrayal of MJ. The fact that she pressured him to do it (just like the unmasking) is even worse.

 

[Jamh]

And Jackpot has got to be MJ. There were even references to being a model in her back-up story in #546. Seriously. I hope she is! I'll actually be disappointed if it's not her. lol

I still say it's Carlie. The thing that makes me doubt it is MJ is how ridiculously obvious it would be, however given Marvel's track record on this kind of thing maybe she is Jackpot.