One Scene that I know X2 screenwriters would have done better

[spideyboy_1111]

-sighs- I still would have preferred if there was more of a balance between J&S relationship and J&L's... but make J&S's relationship dominate over J&L. ?? What do you think? ... I would have liked that but damn it.

not i.. i was hoping after X2 was over that the love triangle had finally ended... i didnt think it needed to be drawn out over 3 movies

 

[shadow king]

does any one hav the feeling that she was only interested in logan because he was dangerous and so different to how scott is now. and saw what she used to see in scott.
then realised that she loved scott more because he didnt get going when the going got tuff.
if prof x put the inhibiters in her mind blocks etc its the savage side that is attracted to logan and the jean that we know and love that loves scott. and logans appearance is the start of the pheonix emerging in jean

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well what I meant was Jean/Scott could have been more of the focus but show Jean and Logan as just friends who care about each other...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

does any one hav the feeling that she was only interested in logan because he was dangerous and so different to how scott is now. and saw what she used to see in scott.
then realised that she loved scott more because he didnt get going when the going got tuff.
if prof x put the inhibiters in her mind blocks etc its the savage side that is attracted to logan and the jean that we know and love that loves scott. and logans appearance is the start of the pheonix emerging in jean

Yes, but i feel like she chooses scott because hes the safe bet. and woah never thought about that before... jean in X1 was much more into scott.. and jean in X2 was wading in the waters of the wolverine... and her metaphorical damn in her head was leaking during that too.... *interesting... good catch

 

[Angry Sentinel]

-sighs- I still would have preferred if there was more of a balance between J&S relationship and J&L's... but make J&S's relationship dominate over J&L. ?? What do you think? ... I would have liked that but damn it.

Yeah, there was no balance, and that is what has lead to the perception the Spideyboy is talking about. The way it was intended seems to depend on who you ask... The business end wanted Jeanie & Logan, (I now think) that Singer would have mad a more balanced series had he been left alone.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

i think that hard-core fans dont make even 10% of the audience who see these movies. I see no way that this ending could happen, first because even David admitted it was too psychological violent/disturbing, and then because Wolverine HAD to be the hero in this series. We must get over it, Wolverine is the star and no matter who directed this movie, he would be the one to save the day. Cyke could havee a bigger role? sure, but i doubt he would be the one to save Jean.
And i also doubt that if Singer stayed, we would have only the Dark Phoenix Saga in the movie. It was always said that the Phoenix would never carry a movie, but only be a special supporting plot.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

i think that hard-core fans dont make even 10% of the audience who see these movies. I see no way that this ending could happen, first because even David admitted it was too psychological violent/disturbing, and then because Wolverine HAD to be the hero in this series. We must get over it, Wolverine is the star and no matter who directed this movie, he would be the one to save the day. Cyke could havee a bigger role? sure, but i doubt he would be the one to save Jean.
And i also doubt that if Singer stayed, we would have only the Dark Phoenix Saga in the movie. It was always said that the Phoenix would never carry a movie, but only be a special supporting plot.

Well i disagree with two of your points. I think Singer would have had Scott be the one who saves Jean in X3, and i think the Dark Pheonix saga is definately enough to carry one movie.

 

[BMM]

i think that hard-core fans dont make even 10% of the audience who see these movies. I see no way that this ending could happen, first because even David admitted it was too psychological violent/disturbing, and then because Wolverine HAD to be the hero in this series. We must get over it, Wolverine is the star and no matter who directed this movie, he would be the one to save the day. Cyke could havee a bigger role? sure, but i doubt he would be the one to save Jean.
And i also doubt that if Singer stayed, we would have only the Dark Phoenix Saga in the movie. It was always said that the Phoenix would never carry a movie, but only be a special supporting plot.

As noted earlier, I don't think the aformentioned ending sounds anymore disturbing than the one featured in The Last Stand . . . a woman mercilessly tearing scores of people apart piece by piece (in what can be described as Hell on Earth) only to have a man struggle to approach her while she rips portions of his flesh off with her mind . . . moreover, to have that same man plunge three claws into her chest/heart, while watching her as she dies in front of him . . . Anything can be written to sound disturbing--it's another thing when it's actually shown.

Also, the statement regarding the Dark Phoenix Saga not being able to carry a movie on its own, wasn't made by Arad until after X3's pre-production debacle. The Dark Phoenix Saga is certainly capable of holding its own as the main plot of a movie, especially if one goes so far as to further expound upon it's themes, as well as introduce new villains and dynamics such as the Hellfire Club, etc.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Well i disagree with two of your points. I think Singer would have had Scott be the one who saves Jean in X3, and i think the Dark Pheonix saga is definately enough to carry one movie.

singer wasnt even going to have phoenix in X3, he was saving her for X4 and were not stating opinions.. were telling you what fox wanted..

 

[crappymovie]

As noted earlier, I don't think the aformentioned ending sounds anymore disturbing than the one featured in The Last Stand . . . a woman mercilessly tearing scores of people apart piece by piece (in what can be described as Hell on Earth) only to have a man struggle to approach her while she rips portions of his flesh off with her mind . . . moreover, to have that same man plunge three claws into her chest/heart, while watching her as she dies in front of him . . . Anything can be written to sound disturbing--it's another thing when it's actually shown.

Also, the statement regarding the Dark Phoenix Saga not being able to carry a movie on its own, wasn't made by Arad until after X3's pre-production debacle. The Dark Phoenix Saga is certainly capable of holding its own as the main plot of a movie, especially if one goes so far as to further expound upon it's themes, as well as introduce new villains and dynamics such as the Hellfire Club, etc.

The Phoenix Saga would have dealt with complex emotions and character dynamics....maybe it would have "slowed the film down." Maybe, Arad, being the depthless person he is, thought "people hated the Hulk, with all that emotional stuff, so it won't work for this film either." But the Phoenix Saga presented the opportunity for the team to display their powers (against Jean and the villains) with good action scenes, and explore how the team reacted to fighting against their own teammate (emotional). Instead, we didn't get a complete treatment of the cure OR the phoenix plotline. Unfortunate.

 

[BMM]

singer wasnt even going to have phoenix in X3, he was saving her for X4 and were not stating opinions.. were telling you what fox wanted..

Singer never said that. It was never made known what would be partitioned within his X3 or X4 . . . but somehow I doubt that Phoenix would not have been included in X3, especially since the villain Emma Frost was to be added to X3's roster.

 

[crappymovie]

Singer never said that. It was never made known what would be partitioned within his X3 or X4 . . . but somehow I doubt that Phoenix would not have been included in X3, especially since Emma Frost was to be included within the movie.

I think that would have been cool as well. Gives Jean's death in X2 more impact (she's gone for a whole movie), and they can really do her justice in X4. But we'll never know...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

As noted earlier, I don't think the aformentioned ending sounds anymore disturbing than the one featured in The Last Stand . . . a woman mercilessly tearing scores of people apart piece by piece (in what can be described as Hell on Earth) only to have a man struggle to approach her while she rips portions of his flesh off with her mind . . . moreover, to have that same man plunge three claws into her chest/heart, while watching her as she dies in front of him . . . Anything can be written to sound disturbing--it's another thing when it's actually shown.

Also, the statement regarding the Dark Phoenix Saga not being able to carry a movie on its own, wasn't made by Arad until after X3's pre-production debacle. The Dark Phoenix Saga is certainly capable of holding its own as the main plot of a movie, especially if one goes so far as to further expound upon it's themes, as well as introduce new villains and dynamics such as the Hellfire Club, etc.

i dont think phoenix alone could.. but with the hellfire club very much indeed... my version of X3 after X2 was to have emma as the white queen turn jean dark

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Singer never said that. It was never made known what would be partitioned within his X3 or X4 . . . but somehow I doubt that Phoenix would not have been included in X3, especially since the villain Emma Frost was to be added to X3's roster.

actually im fairly confident he did..

 

[BMM]

actually im fairly confident he did..

The only mention I've ever seen of Singer's X3/X4 concept is in an exclusive Wizard interview. He never made note of what would be included in either of those movies or how they would be broken down. He only made mention of the inclusion of Angel, Beast, and Gambit within the films at some point.

Writer Dan Harris is the one who revealed Emme Frost's inclusion in X3.

And producer Lauren Shuller Donner stated at one point that X3 did not necessarily have to follow up with the Phoenix Saga immediatley, but rather, that they could go a different route for one movie (such as covering the Days of Future's Past arc in X3) and then follow up with Phoenix in X4 . . . but this was stated at an entirely different time than Singer's interview . . . and was purely hypothetical.

Phoenix would have been included in X3 one way or another . . . it wouldn't have simply been a non-issue.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

from what i understand he was toying with the idea.. i heard it on a few accounts, i cant tell you where, but i know i heard it.

 

[WorthyStevens]

yadda yadda yadda... its one thing to kill the woman you love.. its another to have her kill herself while your fighting it and have her forcefully rip your classes up and use her mind to hold your eyelids open...thats a bit disturbing.. not saying it isnt good.. but its probably a bit too disturbing

and sorry but esp to the general public the majority wanted logan and jean together.. why? because we really saw alot of how much logan loved jean.. and when we saw cyclops he lacked in personality.. he was stern.. quite and like wolverine said.. sort of a "D!(k" so the general audience didnt gravitate torwards him because the movies hardly showed any character for cyke.. we needed more scenes of him opening up (like the scene with xavier unconcious) for the most part though, Scott came off like a highschool jock whos dating the girl of every guys dream, and she comes off as a possession "stay away from my girl"... too many people i think get the heart of the charcters in the comic mixed up with whats really happening in the movie

I"m sorry, but your point is mute.

Jean CLEARLY chose Scott over Wolverine in X2. That should've continued in this movie for continuity's sake. Although, she never really chose Wolverine in this movie either.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

and ps. anything regarding singer's X3 and X4 were HIGHLY hypothetical

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I"m sorry, but your point is mute.

Jean CLEARLY chose Scott over Wolverine in X2. That should've continued in this movie for continuity's sake. Although, she never really chose Wolverine in this movie either.

your behind.. we've cleared up this issue

 

[Angry Sentinel]

and ps. anything regarding singer's X3 and X4 were HIGHLY hypothetical

... I don't know about 'highly', here is what Retroman posted in another thread referencing things we were showed in the past...

X2 screen writer Dan Harris let slip this bit about X3 while he was writing Superman in Sept. 2004

Quote:
"We were going to do X-Men 3 for a little while and our big secret or coup was - and it's not going to happen so it's OK - we wanted to have a character that was Emma Frost, a famous X-Men character. She's called the white queen,"
"We were going to ask Sigourney to be it. She was an empath in our version of the movie which means she could control people's emotions."


Singer said this in Feb. 2004

Quote:
Among the facts dropped in the mag are: the idea by Singer to shoot X-MEN 3 and X-MEN 4 at the same time; how many primary characters are currently in the X3 treatment (which includes Beast); which actors are likely to reappear in the second sequel; other filmmakers that Singer has been meeting with regarding the latest breakthroughs in filmmaking technology; and spinoff movies using Wolverine and other X-Men characters.

Perhaps the biggest news is the revelation of what the general premise of X-MEN 3 will be about -- or is, at least at this early stage of the game. According to Singer, the idea behind X3 is what would happen if humans and mutants went up against evolution itself.

There is a lot of evidence that shows that the initial intent for the next movies from Singer & Co were going to delve a lot deeper into the X-world than the current movie did. Of course, they would've had the 'FOX' on their backs the whole way, so who knows how it could've turned out.

 

[X-Maniac]

If X3 was about humans and mutants going up AGAINST evolution (which must mean Dark Phoenix), then what would have been in X4?

For them to be 'against evolution itself' means Phoenix has an enemy, an adversary...

 

[demitri_vampiro]

I am convinced that Singers X3 would have had much more Scott and Jean.

zak said that cyclops was doomed no matter who directed it. fox didn'want cyke in the movie at all. also it was singer who doomed cyclops in the first place by giving him a minor role in x-1 and x-2.

 

[Obsidian]

zak said that cyclops was doomed no matter who directed it. fox didn'want cyke in the movie at all. also it was singer who doomed cyclops in the first place by giving him a minor role in x-1 and x-2.

with the hold that Singer had on the franchise at the time (before he left for Superman Returns)..I'm sure he could've coerced the studio into accepting Cyclops getting a much more prominent role in X-Men 3

 

[Angry Sentinel]

If X3 was about humans and mutants going up AGAINST evolution (which must mean Dark Phoenix), then what would have been in X4?

For them to be 'against evolution itself' means Phoenix has an enemy, an adversary...

I know it's interesting and a little baffling. Had they followed the comic storyline then one guesses that Emma Frost would represent some form of the Helfire club. Which leaves the Government as the Shiar trying to kill Jean. But what would the government use as an effective deterent for an super Powerful psychic?
And how would they tie all this into the theme of going AGAINST evolution( the cure? or maybe just mutant hysteria?).

I guess I could see X3 being more about Jeans return, and still just being Phoenix, with Emma seducing her darker side. Of course the movie would have had some other major plotline going (cure/ project wideawake/ super soldiers), with a cliffhanger type resolution. Leading into X4 and Jean being Dark Phoenix

I would pay real money to get a hold of their script pitch ...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

If X3 was about humans and mutants going up AGAINST evolution (which must mean Dark Phoenix), then what would have been in X4?

For them to be 'against evolution itself' means Phoenix has an enemy, an adversary...

the x-men going against evolution itself would be phoenix.. not an adversary of phoenix... unless there digging into sinister and apocalypse