Organic "Victor": A Doombot All Along? (new photo inside)

[Iron Maiden]

You know , that picture with Michael and Julian set off some bells and I just now remembered why, from the interview with IF magazine that was posted here about a month ago..

iF: Did you kick Julian McMahon’s ass again?

CHIKLIS: Not an ass kicking, but more of breaking a wall with him.

Maybe not much to go on but if a human was pushed by the Thing with enough force to break a wall, wouldn't he be carted off to the nearest emergency room??

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

YES.

So you liked FF1's 3rd act's 4 vs. 1 battle?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Maybe not much to go on but if a human was pushed by the Thing with enough force to break a wall, wouldn't he be carted off to the nearest emergency room??

Interesting.

So that might rule out the "Power Cosmic Cures Him" idea. I doubt any flesh and blood normal human could survive that kind of bashing and still look pretty after the fact.

I think that one way or another, there is metal under that skin: Either it's organic or it's robotic--but it ain't human.

 

[Dragon]

Just another nugget of Doom history..... Modok once challenged him to construct a robotic duplicate of Bucky to use against Captain America. To Modok's disappointment, Doom did rise to the challenge and instilled enough of Bucky's personality that it refused to betray Captain America and overrode Modok's programming.

I have those issues. But then Doom wasn't the villain there. Modok and the robotic Bucky were. Doom was a cameo.

And I'm not saying Doom shouldn't make use of robots. I agree that his genius in this area is definitely one of the traits that make him a great villain. I'm saying his using a Robot Double for no reason other than to escape or deceive- and unbelievably to propose to Sue- or throughout FF1, wouldn't work onscreen.

And as for robots and their attempts to impersonate humans, see "Blade Runner" t: . It seems a bit contradictory to accept some sci fi elements of the FF movie, i.e. that the cosmic rays changed their DNA, and not others.

That's a completely different subject. And- the point of that story is that WE KNEW they were robots- and we were supposed to connect, care for and fear them because they were so human-like. Not the same as saying in a previous story the character you believed was human is now a robot. Not the same at all.

 

[Dragon]

So you liked FF1's 3rd act's 4 vs. 1 battle?

No. I'm speaking in terms of good movies

 

[Dragon]

Interesting.

So that might rule out the "Power Cosmic Cures Him" idea. I doubt any flesh and blood normal human could survive that kind of bashing and still look pretty after the fact.

I think that one way or another, there is metal under that skin: Either it's organic or it's robotic--but it ain't human.

Well, when I mentioned using the power cosmic to heal himself- I meant in terms of his superficial visage. Anyone with TPC is still basically invulnerable, even if their appearance seems normal.

 

[Saint]

Interesting.

So that might rule out the "Power Cosmic Cures Him" idea. I doubt any flesh and blood normal human could survive that kind of bashing and still look pretty after the fact. .

Not really. In fact, it lends credibility to the power cosmic theory. You think Doom would steal it, use the power to make himself look human, and then give it up? No, Doom said he always wanted power, but was still bothered by his disfigurement--solution: with the power cosmic, he can look human and still be powerful.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

No. I'm speaking in terms of good movies

Heh. I made that too easy for you, didn't I?

Not really. In fact, it lends credibility to the power cosmic theory. You think Doom would steal it, use the power to make himself look human, and then give it up? No, Doom said he always wanted power, but was still bothered by his disfigurement--solution: with the power cosmic, he can look human and still be powerful.

Oh, don't get me wrong--I do believe he'll aquire the power cosmic. I'm just not sure he would use it beyond correcting his aesthetics. Him becoming a flesh-and-blood Man of Steel aka Superman might be lost on some people.

My point is, I don't expect him to use TPC to cure him totally of the organic metal...he may restrict its presence to below the epidermal level, but it still would have to be there if he's going to retain his Electro Marco-Polo Powuhz, no? Because if he used TPC to make him completely normal that would--as you mentioned--make him baseline again. And that's why I say there is still something metal or robotic under that flesh. I believe whatever we're seeing is merely a facsimile.

I mean, what other reasons would Benjamin have to crush him against the wall like that? From the expressions, it looks like Ben's hearing or seeing something he wasn't anticipating...like a lie.

 

[BrollySupersj]

No offense but "Doombot all along" = ugh. Maybe stealing Surfer's powers somehow made him be able to grow new skin.

I'd go with that.

 

[GoblinScrier]

We've had a teaser trailer and a teaser commercial, but still no Doom...is Fox so thrilled with their new turn out of Doom that they want to keep him a secret or is he the same embarrassment and that is why he isn't being seen? I just wish Fox would hurry up and show us something besides the convoluted image of "Victor" being choked by the Thing

 

[Canadian Rider]

Much simpler explanation.

In Secret Wars Doom used the power he gathered to "heal" himself.

He has done so again here. Note the jacket etc. not his garb from the first film.

We will see him be scarred somehow after this scene and his "healing" ... and then FINALLY they will get it right and ARMOURED Dr. Doom will rise to thrash the FF!

 

[Weadazoid]

hmmmmm


maybe the Doom The THing has in his grips....is a android created by Doom, kind of a new take on the doom bot to throw the FF off




maybe it is a some dream sequence

maybe he was healed

 

[Canadian Rider]

No Doombots. They aren't in the union ...

 

[chaseter]

hmmmmm


maybe the Doom The THing has in his grips....is a android created by Doom, kind of a new take on the doom bot to throw the FF off




maybe it is a some dream sequence

maybe he was healed

Maybe you have just named every single logic explanation on this pict:

No Doom Bots please.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

One thing to note however, it is not certain that the power cosmic allows you to revert back to human as in the comics he did not do so when he had stolen the surfer's power. He was only able to do it when he stole the Beyonder's power.

 

[bdpaco]

but wasnt the Beyonder half of a cosmic cube..with the Molecule Man the other half? My thought is that a cosmic cube is the same as the power cosmic...

 

[Iron Maiden]

That's correct about the Cosmic Cube ... there was an FF story that stated that the Beyonder and the powers of the Molecule Man were parts of an incomplete Cosmic Cube, which always confused me. The first story I recall that featured the Cosmic Cube, it was in the old Captain America series in Tales of Suspense and the Cube was created for the Red Skull by the scientists of A.I.M .

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Why are people so against the Doombot ideas? I think it portrays Doom as even more intelligent and manipulative than the first film which it seems there are people that say he wasn't those enough.

 

[Kelly]

I have no problem with a doombot theory except if it is said that the entire first movie was a doombot......as someone has already mentioned....the doctor that treated Victor would have seen this.....so to me that is not a feasible usage of doombots....

 

[Joe Rockhead]

Exactly. The T-800 & 1000 were threatening. Who was cowering in fear of Skynet?



And which villain was the scary one?



Again, who was it that the audience feared? Not Sauron- but the immediate threat of the Orks and so forth.



And until he appeared. Vader was the feared villain.



YES.

To you maybe but to me.... No.

All those threats - with the exception of Agent Smith from the Matrix - end up as 'one and done' antagonists.

At the end of the Terminator - the original T-800 gets destroyed but the threat of what Skynet can send next is still out there and is what drives Sarah into her survivalist mode that leads directly into T-2.

At the end of Fellowship of the Rings, all the protagonists are separated, but still running in fear of all of Sauron's agents. Throughout it all... the threat of what Sauron is capable of is apparent. All the trials they face are a result of Sauron's actions. The Nazgul act on behalf of Sauron. Same for the Orcs. The unrelenting forces that beset Aragorn and the others are all a result of Sauron's machinations. Saruman acts in behalf of Sauron - eliminate him and the threat remains.

Star Wars - Eps. 4-6, Darth Vader is the immediate threat for 2 movies then the Emperor takes over. But escaping Vader meant only half the battle was won because the Emperor was still pulling the strings. They made it even more apparent with Eps. 1-3... the Emperor's manipulations are truly at the heart of story. Darth Maul is dispatched in a single film, Jango Fett in another, Count Dooku in the beginning of the third movie... but Palpatine persists through all 6 movies.

For the Matrix... Agent Smith is changed from the events of the first movie into the Anomaly that threatens both Zion and The Matrix. But throughout it all... it's the machines that are the true threat - if Zion falls, humanity falls. All that stuff that happens within the confines of the Matrix program is action packed - but in the end it's what's going on in the real world that Neo, Trinity, and the rest are fighting.

So no... I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that Dr. Doom would be effectively neutered if it's revealed he was nothing more than a robot through the bulk of the first film.

We'll just have to disagree on this point... you don't believe he can be turned into an effective villain.

I believe the possibility still exists for him to be redeemed... but I don't believe it's likely.

 

[SeverianB]

At the risk of once more attacking Lightning by posting my very thoughts:

How is it possible for the first movie to have a robot? So, a robot proposed to Sue? A robot got so pissed at his appearance falling apart? A robot was imbued with all the passion and anger from the previous Doom?

It just doesn't make sense. If he was a mindless automon running around, maybe? But, like it or not, the FF1 Doom had feelings, passion, etc. and those are not so easily explained off by a robot. Also, it does render the entire first movie sort of pointless, since a lot of the tension (i.e. Reed, Susan, Victor) centered on them all being REAL people and not robots.

There's just too many plotholes and too many illogical inconsitencies for it to work properly.

Now, this is not to insinuate that Lightning is illogical, or inconsitent, or any adjective I may have used to describe my problems with this theory.

I agree with you 150%. There are so many holes in the idea, it's pointless. A total waste of time. There are only two options explaining Victor in human form, smashed into a wall: He is a robot or he is possesed with the power cosmic and has made himself look human again.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

The Doombot acts exactly like him right? So why would it be a stretch? I just sincerely hope that Doom is more like the comics and displays his ruthless genius intellect.

I will say that I'm not overly familiar with FF4. As a kid I was more into Dr. Doom, Thing, and Torch as characters than anything else that pertained to the comics of the FF4.

And who's to say a robot doesn't feel? Artificial Intelligence anyone? Terminator 2? Granted they may not break down and cry like some humans, but it isn't a stretch that robots do generate some human emotion.

 

[Kelly]

Does anyone here realize how idiotic the doombot theory is? Anyone? Or how obvious it is? Sure for the fans, you'd stomach it with your mixture of dislike for F1's Doom and your comic book knowledge, but non-comic fans (the majority of the audience) would simply laugh it off as contrived (which it is) and idiotic!

Jeez, have you people lost it????

Well as many have stated in this thread....the doombots are very much a part of F4 history.

It must be very hard for you carrying the weight of speaking for the majority of the audience out there.

Maybe if you had simply said....."well I disagree.....I don't think the doombot theory is the way to go....heres why...." maybe I would take your opinion more seriously, but as is.....seems you are just namecalling people that look at this theory as viable...doing it in a roundabout way of course....but in the end.....namecalling.

I don't necessarily like the doombot theory myself, but certainly do not think that the theory is idiotic, nor do I think the people that go with this theory have "lost it" as you put it.....its simply their opinion....and it is as valuable as yours.....but theres is MUCH stronger, because they DIDN'T use your adjectives....as you put it.....

 

[Ahura Mazda]

but wasnt the Beyonder half of a cosmic cube..with the Molecule Man the other half? My thought is that a cosmic cube is the same as the power cosmic...

Actually that the beyonder you are talking about was post the retconning of the character where once everything he had done before was supposedly an illusion. So secret wars never happenned.

However, when Doom stole the Beyonder's power, that power was greater or at least equal to the living tribunal.

Pre-retconn the beyonder was as if a marvel writer was in the marvel universe writing whatever he wanted.

The post-retconn character was renamed the maker and was female.

 

[WTFimVENOM]

Maybe not much to go on but if a human was pushed by the Thing with enough force to break a wall, wouldn't he be carted off to the nearest emergency room??

I said that before but I was ignored

Anybody else notice the wall in the backround? Looks like thing smashed Doom into the concrete wall even tho hes in human form.... does this mean cosmic doom perhaps?

Just before the "Doombot Debate" lol