Out of curiosity, is there anyone around here who disliked Michael Keaton's Batman?

[LongDong]

Right. I can see that you are such an intellectual that you need to resort to insults. Oh and in case you're too clever to work it out, I'm being sarcastic... "Jackass"..

I would hardly call that an insult as I stated it was a jackass comment, not it came from a jackass. If you are taking it personally then perhaps you have some self esteem issues.

 

[LongDong]

It WAS the biggest movie of 92 in worldwide box-office. That should tell you something. That drop if something tells you that due to being a darker movie it was less acessible to kids as the first one was.
Batman Forever was lighter (thus more kids went to see it and one can argue that Kilmer and O' Donnell brought more female public to a movie that otherwise girls wouldn't be so interested in) and it showed at the box-office but as history shows it it never made as much money on video/dvd sales and rentals as the first two...
I even find it funny because everytime I go to the mall to shop for dvds everytime they put dvds of the first two movies, the following week they're sold out while Forever and Batman and Robin are always on the shelves...
Even Spider-Man 2 didn't make as much money as the first one and I think almost everyone loves Tobey Maguire as Spidey...

When a movie is a let down in the domestic market, the fans always bring up worldwide gross to prove the point.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The Burton films were not good interpretations of the comics.

They were good films, but not good interpretations of the comics.

Batman Begins did change aloof things, while still keeping alot of things the same.

See this is the thing......people who don't read the comics have a very sneered perspective on what comic fans want.

We don't want the film to be a carbon copy of the comics.....that would actually suck, b/c it'd be either 1)boring to us and 2)too cheesy. I never want to see Batman wear gray tights on screen. It'll look horrible and stupid. BUT.....I want the characteristics and the characters to basically be the same characters I know from the comics. That's pretty much all most comic book fans want. Batman Begins did that, and that's why it's the best comic film today. Not a snag at Burton, but that's the way it is.

That's essentially what I meant. He's obviosuly a fan of comic book movies, as Donner's Superman The Movie, along with Jaws, inspired Singer to become a director.

Okay, I thought so. I mean........it's actually pretty cool how these characters, Batman and Superman, transcend the comics. They are the only comic heroes that do it. Fans don't really read the comics and still know about the character, it's pretty cool.

 

[the_joker]

I would hardly call that an insult as I stated it was a jackass comment, not it came from a jackass. If you are taking it personally then perhaps you have some self esteem issues.

Well then, please enlighten me. What kind of person makes a "jackass comment"? And I don't have any self esteem issues, thanks for your concern nonetheless. I just think that there is no need to resort to insulting other people's comments just because you don't agree to them.

 

[the_joker]

The Burton films were not good interpretations of the comics.

They were good films, but not good interpretations of the comics.

Batman Begins did change aloof things, while still keeping alot of things the same.

See this is the thing......people who don't read the comics have a very sneered perspective on what comic fans want.

We don't want the film to be a carbon copy of the comics.....that would actually suck, b/c it'd be either 1)boring to us and 2)too cheesy. I never want to see Batman wear gray tights on screen. It'll look horrible and stupid. BUT.....I want the characteristics and the characters to basically be the same characters I know from the comics. That's pretty much all most comic book fans want. Batman Begins did that, and that's why it's the best comic film today. Not a snag at Burton, but that's the way it is.



Okay, I thought so. I mean........it's actually pretty cool how these characters, Batman and Superman, transcend the comics. They are the only comic heroes that do it. Fans don't really read the comics and still know about the character, it's pretty cool.

People seem to be missing the point, it isn't a comic book, it's a movie based on a comic. To focus on the last point you made, I've had people (non-comic book fans) telling me that they actually preferred the Burton films. They thought that BB was a bit boring and had too much emphasis on the creation of Batman and not enough action.

 

[WhiteRat]

Right. I can see that you are such an intellectual that you need to resort to insults. Oh and in case you're too clever to work it out, I'm being sarcastic... "Jackass".



Well I only have two things to say to that:

A. Batman returns is a movie based on a comic book. If you want the real deal, then go and read the comic. Batman89 and BR were Burton's own interpretation made into the films. And a very good interpretation I might add.

B. And seeing as you seem to know so much about comics, you should already know that Nolan's Batman Begins is full of changes to the "orignal" Batman story. Like, Hello? Who is Rachel? She isn't even in any of the comics. There are many more differences in the movies, or as you like to put "butched" by the Oh-so wonderful Nolan and Goyer himself, either way there's loads, far too many for me to list here.

As I already mentioned earlier,I dont want things to be word for word exactly like the comics.Im all for changes just as long as they are reasonable.Adding on a new character like Rachel Dawes I am okay with.I have no gripes about comic films introducing new characters who were never in the comics,that doesnt damage the source material.Like with the television show Smallville,I dont mind it that Chloe Sullivan is on that show even they she was never a character in the superman comics or that Pete was white instead of being black,ect.None of those things betrays the comic.Now when they brought in Lois Lane just recently to meet Clark Kent in smallville instead of Metropolis and had her going to high school with him and living with him,now thats a major drastic change that buthers the comic,therefore I dont watch the show anymore and why I stopped posting in the smallville section.Things like Batman killing people in such cowardly ways like he did such as putting a bomb in that penguin goons pants and Killing The Joker-his arch enemy for god sakes Buthered his character and betrayed the comicbook and because of that,these movies dont deserve to be called Batman. I would think YOU of all people, would especially be pissed about Batman 89 since your nemesis killed you?

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

When a movie is a let down in the domestic market, the fans always bring up worldwide gross to prove the point.

What the hell does that mean ?
The full total worldwide box-office is what matters the most in determining the sucess. The rest of the public overseas is not any less than the american public. And certainly not less Batman fans than them.
Even because Batman is a cultural icon that belongs to the world.

 

[Bruce_Wayne29]

This happened to me when I was going to purchase the Two-Disc Special Edition DVDs.
I looked on a store and there was several of each one of the DVDs.
A week later I went to make the purchase and there were only BF and B&R on the shelves, the Burton/Keaton movies were already sold out.
This happened last year, soon after Begins release.
Does this prove something? I don't think so.
Only that they are still giving profits to WB, and lots of people still love it.

BTW, very nice avatar.

Thanks. That was exactly what I was trying to say. That they still bring profit and certainly alot more than the last two (regardless of Forever being more sucessful in the box-office than Returns). This is a very common case the one we described. Alot of my fellow Batman fans across the country tell me the same thing, that when they go to the mall the last two are on the shelves while the first two are always being sold.

 

[the_joker]

As I already mentioned earlier,I dont want things to be word for word exactly like the comics.Im all for changes just as long as they are reasonable.Adding on a new character like Rachel Dawes I am okay with.I have no gripes about comic films introducing new characters who were never in the comics,that doesnt damage the source material.Like with the television show Smallville,I dont mind it that Chloe Sullivan is on that show even they she was never a character in the superman comics or that Pete was white instead of being black,ect.None of those things betrays the comic.Now when they brought in Lois Lane just recently to meet Clark Kent in smallville instead of Metropolis and had her going to high school with him and living with him,now thats a major drastic change that buthers the comic,therefore I dont watch the show anymore and why I stopped posting in the smallville section.Things like Batman killing people in such cowardly ways like he did such as putting a bomb in that penguin goons pants and Killing The Joker-his arch enemy for god sakes Buthered his character and betrayed the comicbook and because of that,these movies dont deserve to be called Batman. I would think YOU of all people, would especially be pissed about Batman 89 since your nemesis killed you?

Touché.

 

[LongDong]

What the hell does that mean ?
The full total worldwide box-office is what matters the most in determining the sucess. The rest of the public overseas is not any less than the american public. And certainly not less Batman fans than them.
Even because Batman is a cultural icon that belongs to the world.

Yeah, that is why every website reports the WORLDWIDE grosses every Monday. Sorry dude, you are reaching.
Domestic is always the first and most important barometer.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

People seem to be missing the point, it isn't a comic book, it's a movie based on a comic. To focus on the last point you made, I've had people (non-comic book fans) telling me that they actually preferred the Burton films. They thought that BB was a bit boring and had too much emphasis on the creation of Batman and not enough action.

I hear you......BUT.....Batman is a comic book character....and Batman Begins does the books justice.

There are non-comic fans that like it too b/c of the stronger emphasis on character devlopment and story. The movie wasn't exactly an action film either.......suspense/drama/action is more like it.

 

[atomicbattery]

I hear you......BUT.....Batman is a comic book character....and Batman Begins does the books justice.

Exactly. When the box office success of 'Batman' was being used here as evidence of the public/comic book fans approval of the Burton-Keaton interpretation of the character, I pointed out that people were excited to see that film because it was Batman (having more, in fact, to do with baby boomer nostalgia for the '60's t.v. series than most comic book fans would want to admit). The more accurate measure of public enthusiasm for the Burton-Keaton Batman was the box office for 'Batman Returns", which fell by a huge percentage.

'Batman Begins', I think, has been largely embraced by genre fans as a generally authentic, valid depiction of the character. And I am confident that, unlike 'Batman Returns', the sequel to 'Begins' will improve on the box office of its predecessor.

 

[WhiteRat]

People seem to be missing the point, it isn't a comic book, it's a movie based on a comic. To focus on the last point you made, I've had people (non-comic book fans) telling me that they actually preferred the Burton films. They thought that BB was a bit boring and had too much emphasis on the creation of Batman and not enough action.

Well whoever those people are that you know are idiots and dont have a clue what they are talking about obviously. Because A-Batman Begins filled in the blanks for the people who always wondered to themselves-How did he construct a a cave under a mansion without so many people knowing about it or how does he get someone to fix his batmobile without someone finding out about it.Most people want to know something about the background about characters they see in a movie and know about that character,especially the main character.We never got to understand anything about Bruce Wayne in Burtons Batman films because the majority of the first two films were all about the villains.B- Not enough action? what on earth have those people you know been smoking? Batman Begins had tons and tons of action like a Batman movie should have.Talk about a Batman movie thats boring with not enough action in it look no further than Batman 89.The first hour in a half was boring as hell for moviegoers.All they did during that time frame was stand around and talk practically the whole damn time with just a few brief action scenes here and there.Talk about a boring snoofest. Most people I talk to have said the same thing about the first film.Your friends have either been smoking something or just simply confused the two and have confused Batman Begins with Batman 89 because Batman Begins is hardly boring and hardly lacks enough action in it which was a major complaint of mine and others I know obviously.Batman 89 however,is majorly lacking in action and extremely boring with them just standing around talking the majority of the time for the first hour in a half.For anybody to say that Batman Begins is a bit boring and lacks a lot of action and then turn around and say that Batman 89 isnt a bit boring and has lots of action in it is clueless on what the hell they are talking about and has no credibility.So again they are either idiots and dont know what they are talking about,or they just simply made a mistake and confused the two and met it to be the other way around.

 

[WhiteRat]

Exactly. When the box office success of 'Batman' was being used here as evidence of the public/comic book fans approval of the Burton-Keaton interpretation of the character, I pointed out that people were excited to see that film because it was Batman (having more, in fact, to do with baby boomer nostalgia for the '60's t.v. series than most comic book fans would want to admit). The more accurate measure of public enthusiasm for the Burton-Keaton Batman was the box office for 'Batman Returns", which fell by a huge percentage.

'Batman Begins', I think, has been largely embraced by genre fans as a generally authentic, valid depiction of the character. And I am confident that, unlike 'Batman Returns', the sequel to 'Begins' will improve on the box office of its predecessor.

Exactly.Also Batman 89 unlike Batman Begins was promoted like crazy with movie posters in the theaters a year before the movie came out and with trailers out the year before as well with just the bat insignia showing on the screen and you could not go to any shopping mall or any grocery store or fast food place such as Burger King with all kinds of Batman promotional tie ins.Batman Begins was horribly promoted,it got none of that stuff and many people didnt even know about the movie till it was out because of that.I just hope that Warner Brothers learned from their mistake this time and dont repeat it for the sequal. Like Chris Bale said,batman begins does the comicbook justice where the Burton films dont which is why I said what I said before that because of that,the Burton Batman films dont deserve to even be called Batman.

 

[Bat Attack]

I only saw 2 tv spots for Batman Begins, and no trailers in the movie theaters. Oh yeah, and one toy commercial. I really wish that Warners could have atleast had aired more tv spots.

 

[Bat Attack]

I just hope that Warner Brothers learned from their mistake this time and dont repeat it for the sequal.

Same here. But don't worry the sequel will be big, especially since it's going to be Batman vs. Joker and we haven't seen the Joker and Batman on the big screen for almost 20 years.

 

[LongDong]

I only saw 2 tv spots for Batman Begins, and no trailers in the movie theaters. Oh yeah, and one toy commercial. I really wish that Warners could have atleast had aired more tv spots.

Hey, they DID put up Norton Antivirus standees in every office max, if that doesn't draw a crowd I don't know what will.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

'Batman Begins', I think, has been largely embraced by genre fans as a generally authentic, valid depiction of the character. And I am confident that, unlike 'Batman Returns', the sequel to 'Begins' will improve on the box office of its predecessor.

I'd say your on the mark.

Btw, the marketing for Begins.....WB didn't want to throw it in everyone's face......people had practically been raped by the crap that was B&R, Batman Begins was easing ppl back into it all.

 

[El Payaso]

[EDITED by Tony Clifton]

...

 

[batmaluco]

Thanks. That was exactly what I was trying to say. That they still bring profit and certainly alot more than the last two (regardless of Forever being more sucessful in the box-office than Returns). This is a very common case the one we described. Alot of my fellow Batman fans across the country tell me the same thing, that when they go to the mall the last two are on the shelves while the first two are always being sold.

Yes, I was just saying that this happened to me as well. And must have happened to lots of people around the entire world.
And we know that for WB it's not a problem from where the money is coming.
Since they fill their pockets.

 

[LongDong]

That is funny about the DVD's as I have not seen this trend and I am in Best Buy all the time. I actually was searching for the Batman series to purchase a while back and I found Batman and Robin to be the hardest to get. These things have print runs, it being sold out because everyone is going to buy those two movies is insane, I am sure that is not the case. All you need to do is search for the weekly or monthly sales and you can find out the truth. Hate to burst the Keaton/Burton fanboy bubble but it seems as if smeone is making things seem as if they fit their argument on this one.

 

[Bat Attack]

I like Keaton much better than Kilmer and Clooney.

The Burton Batman films were not crap either.

I agree.

 

[the_joker]

I agree.

The majority has spoken.

 

[LongDong]

The minority has spoken.

Yes

 

[the_joker]

Yes

*sighs*, you know full well I put the majority! Don't you ever give up?!