Penny Dreadful

[Ken-Kaniff]

What an awesome arc this show is building... I can't wait for them to finally bring in Dracula and Lucifer! The story, the characters, the atmosphere... all have been top notch thus far! Season 2 is far better than the first which I also found extremely good!

 

[KillerWolf]

This was completely Ethan's fault. Sembene told him repeatedly not to go. He would not listen. If Ethan had told Vanessa about his condition, like Sembene told him too, then maybe she would have waited.

It is partially Ethan's fault, but not completely. Vanessa was still acting arrogantly and irresponsibly. She knew that others would go right after her as soon as they find out that she's gone, hence she put them in a harms way by forcing them to arrive at mansion at night. Both her and Sir Malcolm are stubborn, arrogant and very prone to overestimating themselves.

Also, I'd assume that she should have figured out that Ethan becomes more... bestial, at full moon by now, after spending so much time with him in Joan's cabin. The clues were all there.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is partially Ethan's fault, but not completely. Vanessa was still acting arrogantly and irresponsibly. She knew that others would go right after her as soon as they find out that she's gone, hence she put them in a harms way by forcing them to arrive at mansion at night. Both her and Sir Malcolm are stubborn, arrogant and very prone to overestimating themselves.

Also, I'd assume that she should have figured out that Ethan becomes more... bestial, at full moon by now, after spending so much time with him in Joan's cabin. The clues were all there.

The problem here is that Vanessa seems to be right. As soon as the boys showed up, they simply became pawns to use against her. This is a battle of faith, not weapons, not brawn, not even brains. That is why they were so easily handled. This isn't their battle, it is her. She has to save herself.

During the episode Ethan admitted she knows he is different, but she doesn't know how. Sembene tells me he should tell her, and doesn't. Ethan isn't enjoying the attention of the inspector, and is acting a fool because of it.

Also, the last thing I would call Vanessa is arrogant. She is a lot of things, but arrogant, nah.

 

[KillerWolf]

The problem here is that Vanessa seems to be right. As soon as the boys showed up, they simply became pawns to use against her. This is a battle of faith, not weapons, not brawn, not even brains. That is why they were so easily handled. This isn't their battle, it is her. She has to save herself.

During the episode Ethan admitted she knows he is different, but she doesn't know how. Sembene tells me he should tell her, and doesn't. Ethan isn't enjoying the attention of the inspector, and is acting a fool because of it.

Also, the last thing I would call Vanessa is arrogant. She is a lot of things, but arrogant, nah.

Ethan was most definitely a fool, there's no argument there. And though you do make a rather good point about them being more of a nuisance than help in this instance, I still think that she should have expected that to happen - them storming to help her and falling in a trap.

Madame Kali: "They'll be here soon".

Vanessa: "Who?"

Self-obsessed much? Who do you think, you idiot? Friends you forced to come.

In truth, I don't know... I am still very pissed that Sembene is dead, so I might be too harsh on her right now. It seemed she felt it was her fault that Malcolm did his idiotic storming on a mansion, so her judgement was clouded when she, ironically, did the same.

Oh and, as for her not knowing in what manner is Ethan different, she have seen what Ethan did to Roper in this episode. And two episodes ago Ethan had to storm out of the house, because he was noticeably barely able to control himself.

 

[kvz5]

I think both Vanessa and Ethan are partly to blame. And I guess Malcolm too to some extent but he just woke up from a trance/enhancement so I'm more easy on him. Vanessa's fault, IMO, is not that she's arrogant or self absorbed but rather naïve. Too naïve. She was naïve enough to think that her friends would not follow her after she decides to go to Kali alone. I get that she wants to protect the gang so she went alone but of course they'd follow her! For her not to consider and think of that was stupid on her part. As Tumblr humorously summarized, the episode was basically everyone going "No, Vanessa!" and she's like "Yes, Vanessa!" Ethan's fault is that he should've just told Vanessa everything and why rescuing Malcolm that night is a very bad idea for him. Just flat out saying no to Vanessa without a reason is not going to fly with her.

 

[Marvolo]

Ethan was most definitely a fool, there's no argument there. And though you do make a rather good point about them being more of a nuisance than help in this instance, I still think that she should have expected that to happen - them storming to help her and falling in a trap.

Madame Kali: "They'll be here soon".

Vanessa: "Who?"

Self-obsessed much? Who do you think, you idiot? Friends you forced to come.

In truth, I don't know... I am still very pissed that Sembene is dead, so I might be too harsh on her right now. It seemed she felt it was her fault that Malcolm did his idiotic storming on a mansion, so her judgement was clouded when she, ironically, did the same.

Oh and, as for her not knowing in what manner is Ethan different, she have seen what Ethan did to Roper in this episode. And two episodes ago Ethan had to storm out of the house, because he was noticeably barely able to control himself.

You have to see this from Vanessa's perspective. Not from your own as a viewer who knows what a werewolf is. If Vanessa has never seen or heard of a werewolf how would she know what Ethan is? Ethan storming out of the house in a rage and biting a man who was trying to kill them is hardly enough evidence to leap to the conclusion that Ethan is a werewolf.

And Vanessa asking Kali who is coming was a sensible response. Vanessa doesn't know if she is referring to the Master, other servants of the Master,or her friends. Vanessa wasn't being self obsessed she was just asking for clarification.

 

[KillerWolf]

You have to see this from Vanessa's perspective. Not from your own as a viewer who knows what a werewolf is. If Vanessa has never seen or heard of a werewolf how would she know what Ethan is? Ethan storming out of the house in a rage and biting a man who was trying to kill them is hardly enough evidence to leap to the conclusion that Ethan is a werewolf.

And Vanessa asking Kali who is coming was a sensible response. Vanessa doesn't know if she is referring to the Master, other servants of the Master,or her friends. Vanessa wasn't being self obsessed she was just asking for clarification.

I get that she wouldn't know what a werewolf is. Still, I think there have been more clues for her to get general idea of Ethan's bestial nature... she was aware that something is wrong with Ethan at certain nights, she could deduce that it happens when it is a full moon, as she shared the cabin with him, she also could have seen that he is losing control when that happens and it was practically spelled out that he is an animal/monster of a sort by Roper and Ethan himself. Also, traces of animal claws could be seen on Roper's face. Still, she did have other things on her mind, so it is understandable that she didn't catch all this.

As for those lines I quoted, it was a sensible response, of course, I did so more in jest to show how she didn't think about her friends at all when she went to that mansion.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lets be fair. Ethan didn't even know what he was until Sembene told him. Werewolves don't seem to be a common idea yet. Probably no Penny Dreadfuls about them yet.

 

[KillerWolf]

Okay, I actually sat and thought about this long and hard, or at least longer and harder than before (good name for a porn sequel, by the way) and I can see how I might be making a big stretch here.

Idea that a human being completely loses control and physically turns into something animalistic would be hard to fathom even if you have all the evidence in the world right under your nose. At least in the western world of the time (I believe that first recorded case of lycanthropy was in the 1800's). Sembene csad, coming from Africa, was familiar with this.

 

[BestGirl]

I cannot wrap my head around Vanessa's decision to free Sir Malcolm alone. Was there some reason she couldn't bring the others with her? Why didn't she leave them a note telling them not to follow her? Did she have a plan outside of just talking to the witches?

Was anyone else surprised at how quickly Ethan and Vanessa disposed of that other wolfman? I thought he'd be more of a challenging foe, given how thoroughly he was built up as a rival to Ethan.

I still hate Inspector Rusk. I hope Ethan eats him.

Sembene dying was a real surprise. I was so worried about Mr. Lyle that it didn't occur to me that someone else might buy the farm. I'm still holding out hope that in future seasons we'll get flashbacks of him and Sir Malcolm in Africa.

Speaking of, the way Sir Malcolm's family was in various states of decomposition was pretty cool. We also got the return of Mr. Proteus! t:

I think Brona's going to regret messing with Dorian. Dude appears to be immortal and possibly in league with some very dark forces. He probably enjoys being dominated at the moment but should he ever become tired of it she should watch out.

The most shocking part of the episode was the reveal that Lavinia was in on her father's plan the whole time. I felt really bad for poor Caliban.

 

[Marvolo]

I cannot wrap my head around Vanessa's decision to free Sir Malcolm alone. Was there some reason she couldn't bring the others with her? Why didn't she leave them a note telling them not to follow her? Did she have a plan outside of just talking to the witches?

Was anyone else surprised at how quickly Ethan and Vanessa disposed of that other wolfman? I thought he'd be more of a challenging foe, given how thoroughly he was built up as a rival to Ethan.

I still hate Inspector Rusk. I hope Ethan eats him.

Sembene dying was a real surprise. I was so worried about Mr. Lyle that it didn't occur to me that someone else might buy the farm. I'm still holding out hope that in future seasons we'll get flashbacks of him and Sir Malcolm in Africa.

Speaking of, the way Sir Malcolm's family was in various states of decomposition was pretty cool. We also got the return of Mr. Proteus! t:

I think Brona's going to regret messing with Dorian. Dude appears to be immortal and possibly in league with some very dark forces. He probably enjoys being dominated at the moment but should he ever become tired of it she should watch out.

The most shocking part of the episode was the reveal that Lavinia was in on her father's plan the whole time. I felt really bad for poor Caliban.

Like DarthSkywalker said, this isn't a battle of brains, guns, knives,or science. This is a battle of faith and will. This is Vanessa's fight. Kali would and is using the others as pawns to weaken Vanessa so bringing them with her would have just made her weaker. Look at what is happening. Ethan killed Sembene,Victor is locked in a nightmare like Sir Malcom, Lyle is caught or dead. So now Kali and her daylights have hostages and leverage. Vanessa was right about her needing to go alone and they should have heeded her. This is between Vanessa, Kali, and the Master.

 

[TheFuture]

The most shocking part of the episode was the reveal that Lavinia was in on her father's plan the whole time. I felt really bad for poor Caliban.

Hopefully a gruesome death is coming her way and for her father/mother as well.

Anyone familiar with this time period? Surely locking someone up like that would be against the law, regardless of that person being a social outcast?

 

[BestGirl]

Like DarthSkywalker said, this isn't a battle of brains, guns, knives,or science. This is a battle of faith and will. This is Vanessa's fight. Kali would and is using the others as pawns to weaken Vanessa so bringing them with her would have just made her weaker. Look at what is happening. Ethan killed Sembene,Victor is locked in a nightmare like Sir Malcom, Lyle is caught or dead. So now Kali and her daylights have hostages and leverage. Vanessa was right about her needing to go alone and they should have heeded her. This is between Vanessa, Kali, and the Master.

Okay, but, she couldn't've gone to the witches' house by day? She couldn't've written a note to the rest of the gang warning of them not to follow her?

Hopefully a gruesome death is coming her way and for her father/mother as well.

Anyone familiar with this time period? Surely locking someone up like that would be against the law, regardless of that person being a social outcast?

I'm guessing the manager will play off any cries for help as being part of the show.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How can anyone feel bad for Caliban at this point? He is a bad person. A murderer. That being said, I don't know if she was in on it the whole time. My money is on her willingness coming about when she realized he was undead.

 

[kvz5]

I still do. I can't help it!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love his scenes with Vanessa, and I felt for him last season. But every time something doesn't go his way he lashes out showing his true self.

 

[KillerWolf]

I still do. I can't help it!

Yeah, same here. I really like the character and find it easy to sympathize with him. Though it is true that he tends to act erratically and is quite like a child in that manner.

Fact is, no one is a good person in this show and Caliban's story is one of the more tragic ones. I hope he'll rip those bastards to pieces, starting with the girl.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Eh, I'd say Vanessa, Lyle, Rusk, and to a lesser extent Ethan is. Brona, Joan, and Angelique were, but they are now dead. Mainly others are attempting to atone. We will see where Mr. John Clare goes.

I get not liking Rusk, but the man is completely right and doing his job.

 

[kvz5]

Come to think of it, Dorian is probably the only character left that I never felt sorry for at some point or another.

RE: Rusk - I think the only reason we don't like him is because we are attached to Ethan. But yeah, on a scenario where we don't know Ethan and we never gave a **** about him, I'd probably be rooting for Rusk as well.

 

[KillerWolf]

Eh, I'd say Vanessa, Lyle, Rusk, and to a lesser extent Ethan is. Brona, Joan, and Angelique were, but they are now dead. Mainly others are attempting to atone. We will see where Mr. John Clare goes.

I get not liking Rusk, but the man is completely right and doing his job.

Well, they are all (main cast) attempting to atone and they feel guilt, if they weren't we probably wouldn't like them as characters.
Vanessa has done some s**t and I'd say that she has a very dark streak when it comes to her personality and Ethan might be genuinely good and caring person, but he has a lot of blood on his hands. What he did is inexcusable. Still, they're not on Sir Malcolm's level.

I expect that John Clare/Caliban will go off the track and truly become a monster after he kills the Putneys. It will be justified and I want him to kill them, but I think that he'll lose his better side completely as a result.

And I agree about Rusk. As a matter of fact, I like him a lot.
By the way, I found out that he played adult Damien in that one episode of "Only Fools and Horses".

 

[KillerWolf]

Come to think of it, Dorian is probably the only character left that I never felt sorry for at some point or another.

Indeed. He is amoral, we are not meant to feel for him, which makes me rather certain that he will become an antagonist of the crew at some point.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

They went with a very different direction for him this season. I figured after Vanessa's rejection of him he'd go off the rails with his vanity and ego and start killing women or something. Wasn't expecting his arc this season to be an ill fated romantic subplot.

 

[KillerWolf]

They went with a very different direction for him this season. I figured after Vanessa's rejection of him he'd go off the rails with his vanity and ego and start killing women or something. Wasn't expecting his arc this season to be an ill fated romantic subplot.

Apparently, he was already "off the rails" from the first moment we met him, meaning I am sure Angelique is not the first person he killed and I'm willing to bet that she is not first person to have died as a consequence of finding his portrait (if we were to go by the Wilde's book, it would be the artist who did the painting). Logan mentioned that this Dorian Gray is much older than the one from Wilde's book, so someone surely found the portrait before.

Also there are two clues that point to him killing before - state of the portrait and the ease with which he disposed of Angelique. It didn't look like he was doing it for the first time.

Vanessa definitely dodged the bullet with him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Come to think of it, Dorian is probably the only character left that I never felt sorry for at some point or another.

RE: Rusk - I think the only reason we don't like him is because we are attached to Ethan. But yeah, on a scenario where we don't know Ethan and we never gave a **** about him, I'd probably be rooting for Rusk as well.

I liked Dorian at first. But this season has turned me into a complete hater. Though I am intrigued by this new evil turn.

Yeah, we like Ethan so Rusk comes off as a jerk.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, they are all (main cast) attempting to atone and they feel guilt, if they weren't we probably wouldn't like them as characters.
Vanessa has done some s**t and I'd say that she has a very dark streak when it comes to her personality and Ethan might be genuinely good and caring person, but he has a lot of blood on his hands. What he did is inexcusable. Still, they're not on Sir Malcolm's level.

I expect that John Clare/Caliban will go off the track and truly become a monster after he kills the Putneys. It will be justified and I want him to kill them, but I think that he'll lose his better side completely as a result.

And I agree about Rusk. As a matter of fact, I like him a lot.
By the way, I found out that he played adult Damien in that one episode of "Only Fools and Horses".

I think there is a big difference between the types of blood everyone has on their hands. That is why Ethan did not want Vanessa to kill that evil SOB.

I have no idea were they are going with Caliban. If I had to guess, someone will save him. Now depending on who does, say Vanessa or Lily, will decide his fate.

And that is a neat fact about Rusk's actor. t: