Plot ideas based on SPOILERS (general discussion)

[elizah72]

My god, what have I done -_-

don't worry about it, it's not your fault. I just want to move on with the thread, if that is possible...

 

[jaqua99]

I think this thread should just take a rest for a few days.

 

[elizah72]

Well when people are ready to come back to the thread and the topic of the thread, here is a review of some topics/questions/quotes we've started to cover recently that might be of interest of other people to talk about too (and hopefully the next people to post here will have the decency to talk about *that* and not continue this argument)


Clapper scene numbers from filming:
Scene 80: The Iceland Waterfall
Scene 128: Dark Elves arrive and/or Thor vs. Dark Elves
Scene 132: Thor vs Malekith by the column

For those not reading all our other posts, this seems to put Jane back on Midgard, and Thor fighting Dark Elves and Malekith in the beginning of the last 1/3 of the film (comparing with Thor 1 and Avengers), with travelling to the Waterfall being much earlier.

Jaimie Alexander quote: "You really get to see how much love she has for her fellow Asgardians because she puts her life on the line and risks a lot to save a few Asgardians."

Who in Thor's Rogue gallery do you think we will see?

Malekith appears to be summoning something on Midgard. What do you think that could be?

Do you think Kurse will kill Malekith like in the comics or do you think there will be a different ending?

AAA quote which seems to go along with the Andrew Lawden spoiler about Frigga dying:
ComicBook.com: And is it a really interesting working environment? I mean, you can find yourself just surrounded in the Marvel Universe now with Academy Award-caliber actors, with actors who are the top-grossing actors of the last decade.
Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje: Yeah, I mean look: I can recall the scene. I’m in the scene and Renee Russo is in my arms or beside me and I’m facing Anthony Hopkins and Chris Hemsworth and Chris Eccleston–and just about every great actor within that genre is in the room and you just realize it’s a great privilege and honor. To be opposite Anthony Hopkins and to watch him work is just…amazing.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/01/1...je-marvel-has-moved-the-bar-for-blockbusters/

another interesting AAA quote from that: Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje: I think it all depends on the character. You never know what will become of what character–nobody ever really dies. I think that’s all I can really say; it depends on the character you’re playing.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Malekith appears to be summoning something on Midgard. What do you think that could be?

The Majora's Mask moon?

 

[Rock Sexton]

I think this thread should just take a rest for a few days.

They'll never get it.

 

[elizah72]

Like I said, ***when people are ready to get back to the topic*** then please look at my post above for a couple subjects that were brought up for possible discussion. I look forward to getting back to the topic of the thread, that I was so enjoying talking about up until now.

If people however continue to provoke, accuse, and cause trouble here I WILL be contacting a mod.

 

[jaqua99]

guys lets just simmer down, and let this thread die for a few days. Let my post right here be the last one for a day or two, this is going no where

 

[elizah72]

Putting together a couple Jaimie Alexander quotes for consideration RE Sif...

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a453938/jaimie-alexander-sif-sacrifices-a-lot-in-thor-the-dark-world.html (see page for more including video interview)

"You definitely see a more vulnerable side to Sif and you see her sacrifice a bit for Thor because she is very much in love with him," Alexander said. "She cares about him, they grew up together."

http://collider.com/jaimie-alexander-thor-2-dark-world-intersection-interview/222054/

She added, “I believe you have to make sure there is a bit of realism in a character like that because there are women who are those people out there, so I didn’t want to be disrespectful in that way. They’re very different characters, but the one thing they have in common is that they do stand up for the people that they love and want to protect the people that they love.”

“As for action sequences, I don’t fly in The Last Stand, I don’t take the bifrost anywhere. It’s hard to say, because I did find those characters somewhat similar. Lady Sif definitely follows protocol when it comes to battle and does what the king asks her to do. Sarah Torrance follows protocol, does things by the book; both characters eventually let their hair down and do what they want to do and do what’s necessary which isn’t usually in the book.”

Read more: http://www.fansshare.com/news/jaimie-alexander-compares-thor-dark-world-last-stand-training-preparation/#ixzz2IBXQlU2z

"You get to experience more of who she is on the inside. You get to see her in a more feminine way and we do explore the Thor/Sif relationship a little bit. That was fun…I definitely have action. But there are scenes, we have a few scenes where we don’t have any action at all and it was actually a lot of fun to play that because you’re not hiding behind a sword or an explosion, it’s just here, in your face. It was nice to see who she really is and that sort of thing. It was fun."

She told Collider: "I'm very excited about Thor 2. It's great. [Sif] definitely has a lot more action and does some great scenes where she gets to fight side by side with Thor.
"You really get to see how much love she has for her fellow Asgardians because she puts her life on the line and risks a lot to save a few Asgardians."

Alexander also mentioned another movie role that she’ll hopefully be able to talk about in the next few weeks, but for right now it remains under wraps except to say that it’s an action picture and she’s been sworn to secrecy about it.

Still wondering if that secret action movie might end up being Avengers 2, especially if Sif's sacrifice for Thor is to go to Midgard with him and stay, rather than live on Asgard. ???

In any case, it seems likely that Sif may wind up defying Odin himself for Thor, possibly, deciding to play by "the king's" rules no more? (see bolded text)

thoughts?

 

[jaqua99]

my thoughts...my thoughts, are that, if this is the case, and Sif stays on earth, that we may be done with ms Portman

 

[elizah72]

my thoughts...my thoughts, are that, if this is the case, and Sif stays on earth, that we may be done with ms Portman

maybe... could be... or could be completely wrong on that. LOL Either way, I had a feeling you'd like the idea.

Okay, here I go with my wild and crazy speculation again. That new official image, with Thor on a balcony, like the stone pillars at Bourne Woods, I think mean we are going to see Nornheim, Nornkeep and Karnilla.

my longer spoilery speculation below

Spoiler

Okay so first note, this is definitely not Odin's golden palace, and that the color of the stone in the new picture appears to be the same as the pillars at Bourne, and also appears to be the same color as the walls at Nornkeep. It appears to beaten up to possibly be Valhalla, and Nornkeep if I recall correctly, is often depicted a bit beaten up.

I believe after looking closely that the image represented below Thor there is likely Nidhogg twisted around in the roots of Yggdrasil (the dragon/serpent that naws on the roots of Yggdrassil, a carved image was also shown of Nidhogg in Cap America 1)

As some of you know, I have been thinking the Bourne Woods stuff might be set on the outskirts of Nornheim, based on some of the symbols on the pillars being reminiscent of Karnilla's various headdresses, and also a symbol that may be a nod at the 3 Norns, and now this new picture makes me think it's possible we'll see the stone palace of Nornkeep (and possibly Karnilla! ) I've actually been wondering lately if the Alice Krige role might wind up being an older Karnilla and maybe make her a mentor in magic to Loki. (this is all speculation, of course! nothing definite) It doesn't look like Balder will be brought in at all, but seems like they should bring in Nornheim at some capacity, especially considering the variety of races of warriors at the Bourne Woods scenes. Nornkeep and Nornheim is occupied by a variety of humans/Asgardians, demons, and trolls, among other things I'm sure. Also note according to writers of Thor 1, Nornheim, Karnilla and Balder did very nearly make it into Thor 1 (also note the Thor-Loki deleted scene in Thor 1 where Nornheim is mentioned). Also, per Lawden's spoilers/comments, Nornkeep would certainly count as the "dark side of Asgard" and "far side of Asgard" and if Loki has a friendship with Karnilla or if she was his mentor in magic as I am speculating is possible (she was a mentor to Amora), then that might explain why Thor needs him to go there and maybe talk her into helping fight the Dark Elves. It would also make sense with the part he says about they train and assemble an army there, if Karnilla's forces must then meld and work with the remaining Asgardian army.

New Thor 2 official picture

Nornkeep

also in below picture, note the serpent/dragon symbol on her bed, now look at the symbol I pointed out on the Thor 2 picture. Also note, the symbol above the doorway, very similar to some of her many headdresses (and look at her hair there). then look at the picture after this one with Balder, of one of the stone pillars at Bourne Woods. Again this is all speculation, no guarantee Nornheim or Karnilla will appear, but I do believe the sets here are pointing at Nornheim, Nornkeep, and Karnilla.

 

[American Maid]

^^I can see how that would fit with Andrew Lawden's remarks.

 

[elizah72]

oh, come now AM, is there any way you can make your replies shorter, people have to be able to read this. j/k

And yes, it fits quite well with his spoilers, dare I say, extremely well. I was hoping for a journey to Hela's domain as in the Simonson run, but not sure how all that will fit in the movie with the way I see things panning out currently. Still hoping for a Hela cameo or something though. And certainly that trip to Hel is still a possibility, but it certainly seems (to me at least) like the set work is pointing towards Karnilla and Nornheim, and there is only so much they can squeeze into a 2 hour movie. Hm.

 

[American Maid]

oh, come now AM, is there any way you can make your replies shorter

Yes.

 

[jaqua99]

I do think we will see a lot of Thor's rogue gallery, but most cameos. Especially since it was said a few days ago that the movie will be filled with Thor mythos. Karnilla appearing may be a possibility, but anyone outside of Malekith, and Kurse, POSSIBLY hela, would most likely be brief scenes, or cameos.

Which I think would be great. Cause even if he doesn't have anything to do with them, it lets us know that they DO exist in the MCU

 

[elizah72]

Yes.

see, that's still too long.

I do think we will see a lot of Thor's rogue gallery, but most cameos. Especially since it was said a few days ago that the movie will be filled with Thor mythos. Karnilla appearing may be a possibility, but anyone outside of Malekith, and Kurse, POSSIBLY hela, would most likely be brief scenes, or cameos.

Which I think would be great. Cause even if he doesn't have anything to do with them, it lets us know that they DO exist in the MCU

yeah, i still want at least a cameo for Hela. And of course, Karnilla was very nearly in Thor 1, according to an audio interview with the writers from a while back, they actually had a big thing going on with Nornheim in the early drafts, and it was on the list of things Marvel wanted (Karnilla and Nornheim). And of course, the deleted scene mentions a battle at Nornheim, though that's not canon and they could certainly rework some of what they were originally going to do there in Thor 1 to fit Thor 2.

I know Krige mentioned it being a small part and she might be unrecognizable, but I don't think that necessarily means CGI or a lot of makeup to look like a crone or whatever. If they stick a big wild black wig on her, and make her up to look like a wicked sorceress/Queen, with amazing costume, and crazy headdress, well... that may very well be what she means by that comment.

Now of course, Karnilla could be in it, and it's not Krige, but I'm just using her because she's the one who we don't know the character for, and whenever they don't say who someone is playing, it immediately points to being someone significant that the fans will get really excited about (and I dont consider Alfyse or even some Ragnarok prophesizing old crone significant enough to hold that information back ). Also, consider that if they go with an older Karnilla (just as they appear to have gone with an older Tyr as well) then they can just allude to her being in love with some perfect guy in the past and it never worked out, and she's bitter over that, and so bypass any mention of Balder who doesn't appear to be getting used in the MCU at all. (which I think is a good thing as I think he would bloat even more an already huge cast, and wouldn't be done justice as a character in that case)

 

[American Maid]

(nevermind)

 

[elizah72]

And here is more evidence that the Vanir are very likely among the marauding rag tag band of warriors fighting the Asgardians and THor 2 (as horned helmet and on horseback warriors). This image is from Journey into Mystery Everything Burns book, Mighty Thor #18 prelude.

The man speaking is an Old Freyr, leader of the Vanir, in a flashback to the first Vanir - Aesir war. Their eyes are glowing because Freyr has made a shady deal with Surtur to give them the power to stand up to the Asgardians and a particularly nasty Odin.

Freyr: "Lord Surtur, did you mean what you said? Can you really inspire my brethren to stand up to the Aesir? To take what is ours before the Odinkind take it from us?"

Surtur: "Oh, my yes... for a price."

 

[jaqua99]

And here is more evidence that the Vanir are very likely among the marauding rag tag band of warriors fighting the Asgardians and THor 2 (as horned helmet and on horseback warriors). This image is from Journey into Mystery Everything Burns book, Mighty Thor #18 prelude.

The man speaking is an Old Freyr, leader of the Vanir, in a flashback to the first Vanir - Aesir war. Their eyes are glowing because Freyr has made a shady deal with Surtur to give them the power to stand up to the Asgardians and a particularly nasty Odin.

Freyr: "Lord Surtur, did you mean what you said? Can you really inspire my brethren to stand up to the Aesir? To take what is ours before the Odinkind take it from us?"

Surtur: "Oh, my yes... for a price."

hmm, perhaps Surtur will have a heavy influence on this plot after all

 

[elizah72]

hmm, perhaps Surtur will have a heavy influence on this plot after all

could certainly be. He could be pulling strings to get the other realms against Asgard and encourage attacks on Asgard, at a time when Odin and the Asgardians are seen as weakened. Malekith is usually working with or for Surtur, yes? As I have been proposing in my speculation, could be that this war is being orchestrated, in order to further weaken the Asgardians, and spread out their warriors, so that the palace would be much more vulnerable to attack by the Dark Elves, with possible goal of getting something(s) from the vault. Sound like a plan that Surtur and Malekith might come up with?

We have lots of creatures there at Bourne that I've been thinking were trolls maybe, but they all look a bit different (color, and skin texture different, possibly not all the same race) and there seems to be only one guy with horns who I would call a demon for want of a better word (which I've pointed out before). It can't be Surtur, and I doubt he's Mephisto (he's a far snappier dresser ) but he could be a fire demon/lead minion of Surtur if they have CGI to add later. that interview with the FX people said they had some CGI characters, plural, to add to whatever fight scenes that were shown in that teaser/footage. I just suggest it because is odd though that I see only 1 "demon" there and yet a number of "trolls". So demon guy might end up being more than just random, and with that in mind, maybe sent by Surtur as his liason with the Vanir, and whoever else is involved in this group of invaders.

 

[elizah72]

what do you think the chances are they WILL have Surtur summoned to Earth and fighing in London at least at the end of this film? I mean, the clapper board scene numbers we found would indicate there is certainly time for another BIG final fight *after* Thor fights Malekith by the columns there, and Malekith certainly seems to be summoning something. It could be Kurse, but it sounds like Kurse gets several big battles with different characters, and I'm assuming that goes on over the course of the rest of the movie, so it seems like Thor fighting him AGAIN on Earth would be a bit repetitive, and sort of anticlimactic, in a way. I could be wrong, but what if it IS Surtur that Malekith summons to London and that's the final battle, possibly even making it up to Asgard. I think there may be time for it based on the scene numbers we found.

 

[jaqua99]

could certainly be. He could be pulling strings to get the other realms against Asgard and encourage attacks on Asgard, at a time when Odin and the Asgardians are seen as weakened. Malekith is usually working with or for Surtur, yes? As I have been proposing in my speculation, could be that this war is being orchestrated, in order to further weaken the Asgardians, and spread out their warriors, so that the palace would be much more vulnerable to attack by the Dark Elves, with possible goal of getting something(s) from the vault. Sound like a plan that Surtur and Malekith might come up with?

We have lots of creatures there at Bourne that I've been thinking were trolls maybe, but they all look a bit different (color, and skin texture different, possibly not all the same race) and there seems to be only one guy with horns who I would call a demon for want of a better word (which I've pointed out before). It can't be Surtur, and I doubt he's Mephisto (he's a far snappier dresser ) but he could be a fire demon/lead minion of Surtur if they have CGI to add later. that interview with the FX people said they had some CGI characters, plural, to add to whatever fight scenes that were shown in that teaser/footage. I just suggest it because is odd though that I see only 1 "demon" there and yet a number of "trolls". So demon guy might end up being more than just random, and with that in mind, maybe sent by Surtur as his liason with the Vanir, and whoever else is involved in this group of invaders.

idk. If you are referring to the guy in armor with horns, then there is no way he is a fire demon lol.

yeah obviously he's not surtur, Surtur has to be huge. If something is needed from Asgard, it would be the eternal flame.

what do you think the chances are they WILL have Surtur summoned to Earth and fighing in London at least at the end of this film? I mean, the clapper board scene numbers we found would indicate there is certainly time for another BIG final fight *after* Thor fights Malekith by the columns there, and Malekith certainly seems to be summoning something. It could be Kurse, but it sounds like Kurse gets several big battles with different characters, and I'm assuming that goes on over the course of the rest of the movie, so it seems like Thor fighting him AGAIN on Earth would be a bit repetitive, and sort of anticlimactic, in a way. I could be wrong, but what if it IS Surtur that Malekith summons to London and that's the final battle, possibly even making it up to Asgard. I think there may be time for it based on the scene numbers we found.

not too sure. I feel like it would take away from the anticipation of Thor 3. If thor 3 is a ragnarok story with Surtur, I feel it would be better, and more..cinematic to tease surtur.
You know what I am trying to get at? Though I suppose they could have surtur attack, and fend him off, then he builds twilight in the after credit scene, for a ragnarok thor 3.

Though if Surtur is the final act, credit goes to cherokeesam, he called it first lol

 

[American Maid]

what do you think the chances are they WILL have Surtur summoned to Earth and fighing in London at least at the end of this film? I mean, the clapper board scene numbers we found would indicate there is certainly time for another BIG final fight *after* Thor fights Malekith by the columns there, and Malekith certainly seems to be summoning something. It could be Kurse, but it sounds like Kurse gets several big battles with different characters, and I'm assuming that goes on over the course of the rest of the movie, so it seems like Thor fighting him AGAIN on Earth would be a bit repetitive, and sort of anticlimactic, in a way. I could be wrong, but what if it IS Surtur that Malekith summons to London and that's the final battle, possibly even making it up to Asgard. I think there may be time for it based on the scene numbers we found.

I agree with you that there appears to be enough time for another big fight (and let me take a minute to applaud the fact that there looks to be *SOOOOO* many big fights in this film! t. And most all of us have long felt that this arc leads to Surtur sooner or later, Thor2 or Thor3.

As you know, I have long felt Surtur will be in Thor3, not least because Surtur's attack in Simonson leaves Asgard without Odin, and without a Balder to step in, such a development would complicate Thor's participation in Avengers 2. There's also the matter of the attack on Earth in the Simonson arc. It's not clear that the material they've shot supports a fire demon attack on London, say, though I could be wrong on that. So while it feels like there's enough time for one more fight, it doesn't seem like it's the right amount of time for *that* fight, at least as staged in Simonson. (Of course, they are quite at liberty to diverge from Simonson.)

As for whether Surtur would orchestrate the various realms conspiring to move against Asgard, I'm not sure. When he finally attacks Asgard, Surtur kind of comes off as kind of a dullard, actually (and Loki mocks him for it). So maybe he's just one of the forces in the universe taking advantage of the power vacuum left by the destruction of the Bifrost.

 

[elizah72]

idk. If you are referring to the guy in armor with horns, then there is no way he is a fire demon lol.

No, I'm referring to this guy, who appears to be the only one there of his kind...
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/566/p11146121445.jpg

keep in mind he might get some cgi done to him as well.

not too sure. I feel like it would take away from the anticipation of Thor 3. If thor 3 is a ragnarok story with Surtur, I feel it would be better, and more..cinematic to tease surtur.
You know what I am trying to get at? Though I suppose they could have surtur attack, and fend him off, then he builds twilight in the after credit scene, for a ragnarok thor 3. Though if Surtur is the final act, credit goes to cherokeesam, he called it first lol

Fair enough, but I get credit if the Vanir are involved.

So, yes I understand what you are saying, but, just consider for a moment, if the big Surtur confrontation happens at the end of Thor 2. That would mean that they would be doing another storyline with another villain in Thor 3, assuming there is a Thor 3. SO, what do you think that would be, what would be a good follow up to fighting off Malekith, Kurse, and Surtur in Thor 2?

I agree with you that there appears to be enough time for another big fight (and let me take a minute to applaud the fact that there looks to be *SOOOOO* many big fights in this film! t. And most all of us have long felt that this arc leads to Surtur sooner or later, Thor2 or Thor3.

As you know, I have long felt Surtur will be in Thor3, not least because Surtur's attack in Simonson leaves Asgard without Odin, and without a Balder to step in, such a development would complicate Thor's participation in Avengers 2. There's also the matter of the attack on Earth in the Simonson arc. It's not clear that the material they've shot supports a fire demon attack on London, say, though I could be wrong on that. So while it feels like there's enough time for one more fight, it doesn't seem like it's the right amount of time for *that* fight, at least as staged in Simonson. (Of course, they are quite at liberty to diverge from Simonson.)

As for whether Surtur would orchestrate the various realms conspiring to move against Asgard, I'm not sure. When he finally attacks Asgard, Surtur kind of comes off as kind of a dullard, actually (and Loki mocks him for it). So maybe he's just one of the forces in the universe taking advantage of the power vacuum left by the destruction of the Bifrost.

could be, true, true... I do think that it does appear that something BIG is summoned in Greenwich by Malekith and then heads West into London for a big battle, possibly along the Thames, based on what places were filmed at and near. Based on the fact that we didn't see AAA in costume or other Dark Elves running around those places, attacking people, or not that we've heard, it seems like that fight is going to be largely CGI, and probably won't simply be against Dark Elves.

So something big, probably not Kurse, maybe, but I'm just saying probably not, what choices are there? Surtur, World Serpent/Nidhogg, Ymir, what else?

 

[jaqua99]

No, I'm referring to this guy, who appears to be the only one there of his kind...
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/566/p11146121445.jpg

keep in mind he might get some cgi done to him as well.




Fair enough, but I get credit if the Vanir are involved.

yes, but not too sure. That guy is still wearing clothes and armor.

So, yes I understand what you are saying, but, just consider for a moment, if the big Surtur confrontation happens at the end of Thor 2. That would mean that they would be doing another storyline with another villain in Thor 3, assuming there is a Thor 3. SO, what do you think that would be, what would be a good follow up to fighting off Malekith, Kurse, and Surtur in Thor 2?




could be, true, true... I do think that it does appear that something BIG is summoned in Greenwich by Malekith and then heads West into London for a big battle, possibly along the Thames, based on what places were filmed at and near. Based on the fact that we didn't see AAA in costume or other Dark Elves running around those places, attacking people, or not that we've heard, it seems like that fight is going to be largely CGI, and probably won't simply be against Dark Elves.

I really don't know. If this leads up to Surtur, I feel it's sort of a waste of Surtur. Given how films, and the MCU works, Surtur deserves his own film. He really does. Him being the final act of this movie doesn't necessarily mean he won't be back for a ragnarok movie. Though I am not sure. Ragnarok could start with surtur invading and attacking, and it could conclude in thor 3 with the midgard serpent

So something big, probably not Kurse, maybe, but I'm just saying probably not, what choices are there? Surtur, World Serpent/Nidhogg, Ymir, what else?

too early to tell. I mean it depends on how much Kurse we get

 

[American Maid]

So something big, probably not Kurse, maybe, but I'm just saying probably not, what choices are there? Surtur, World Serpent/Nidhogg, Ymir, what else?

The World Serpent is too big. Simonson used splash pages throughout the battle to show it. That serpent clearly went on for hundreds of miles. It was *mighty* impressive, but I think it doesn't fit here.

Also, as Jon said that having Surtur in just the final act would be a waste of Surtur, I kind of feel that way about Jormungand.