The Dark Knight Post Pictures of things that you dont want to see in 'The Dark Knight'

[Batty Belfry]

Criminals in Arkham have a long history of being able to break out. It's one of those things they excel at.

 

[heypapajinx]

but the whole context of what Jack was talking about is how UN realistic the character of Two Face, Joker, and even Batman is. but people still love it. that's why it's considered fantasy. there doesn't need to be a plausable explanation for any of the crazy happenings. we just go, pay our obscene amount of money, and enjoy the maddness. no one is going to be offended or insulted if someone breaks out of prison twice, or happens to scar their face twice or even falls into a vat of chemicals and happens to somehow live.
well, maybe you.

 

[XCharlieX]

Criminals in Arkham have a long history of being able to break out. It's one of those things they excel at.

They dont have a long history according to the films.

IMO tim burton was smart to kill joker. He completely bypassed all of this stuff. Whether folks appreciate that film or not it was a great film for his decisions.

 

[Batty Belfry]

They dont have a long history according to the films.

IMO tim burton was smart to kill joker. He completely bypassed all of this stuff. Whether folks appreciate that film or not it was a great film for his decisions.

No, not to the films, I was talking about the general history of Batman media.

 

[XCharlieX]

but the whole context of what Jack was talking about is how UN realistic the character of Two Face, Joker, and even Batman is.

These characters are basically surreal, but not unrealistic. The whole thing folks confuse for impossible is that it hasnt occured exactly this way in r/l.

Two face is a dude that has split personality. Do you know theres folks with 30 personalities in r/l? I rest my case.

Batman has a guise of an illusionist of sorts but uses this theatricality to get out of situations.

Joker... a guy who has a gimmick on the streets. Unrealistic? hardly.

no one is going to be offended or insulted if someone breaks out of prison twice, or happens to scar their face twice or even falls into a vat of chemicals and happens to somehow live.
well, maybe you.

Joker fell into a vat of chemicals but it appears he was flushed out and didnt drown. Also, the chemicals simply wasnt strong enough to kill. Understand how it works? Burton was pretty good at this also.

No, not everyone will walk out, but the folks that would usually have written off movies of this nature for being too lenient usually dont go at all. I have hope in these kinds of films as its been shown before how they can break molds.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

Damn, no comment.

 

[XCharlieX]

Eh why post that penguin pic lol If only he followed 89s more.

 

[crazy monkey]

XCharlieX is obviously an X-Men fan, and I'd bet a fan of Marvel in general, eh Charlie? People get whacked in Marvel U all the live-long day. Well, maybe not that often, but c'mon, how many of their covers have featured massacred heroes, or the copy: "This Issue -- an X-Man Dies!" or some such. Certainly the villains die pretty often. Understand, I'm not criticizing, Charles, I get Marvel's whole soap-opera thing and I like it too. I'm just saying, I think that's what you're used to.

Now, one could argue that Marvel takes more risks in this fashion than does DC, or is more "realistic." It certainly is risky to bump off fan-favorite characters. I'd agree with that arguement if their dead stayed that way. But they don't. There's always some alternate universe explaination, or ressurection or time-travel injunction or what-have-you, and they pop up again like perrenials. So, is it much of a stretch to say that the grave itself is Marvel's Arkham? Cause, to me, it seems that Hell has a bit of a revolving door over there.

I'm just funnin' ya, Chuck. I get what you're saying. But bear in mind, Nolan's only interested in doing a trilogy, which doesn't leave him much room for multiple break-outs or returning baddies. It would water down Batman's victories if everyone came back by the end of number 3.

However, the comics are serialized storytelling, essentially chronicaling a fictional life-story. Think of your own life. I don't know how old you are, but as one stacks the years one upon the other, there are certain relationships that, however unhealthy and destructive, seem to float back with the tide. It might involve even a different person entirely, but in the long-run it's the same old poison.

Comic books, like most legends, strip life down to its simple fundamentals and then exagerrate them enough to entertain. The arch-nemesis relationship is a simplified, exaggerated form of that returning bad penny in your life. It's also like a mirror image of a love affair; it's a deep-seated hatred that sometimes erupts into passionate violence. Those feelings take time to evolve, and to hate (or love) each other that much, people have to spend time with each other, get to know each other, come together, fight, seperate, think it over, and come together again...and again, and again.

I ask you, how does such a relationship exist if the villain always dies?! Bottom line: bumping off characters limits the way they can relate to each other. No long term attachments or hatreds can form.

...Unless you bring them back from the dead...again and again.

-- END!

 

[XCharlieX]

I get Marvel's whole soap-opera thing and I like it too. I'm just saying, I think that's what you're used to. It certainly is risky to bump off fan-favorite characters. I'd agree with that arguement if their dead stayed that way. But they don't. There's always some alternate universe explaination, or ressurection or time-travel injunction or what-have-you, and they pop up again like perrenials. So, is it much of a stretch to say that the grave itself is Marvel's Arkham? Cause, to me, it seems that Hell has a bit of a revolving door over there.

Im pretty sure i have an issue over at the x-men boards with them constantly reviving folks as well in their comics. Its not a loyalty thing to one comic company or another. Its a loyalty to film. I think you can get good material from any company.

Unlike the comics there seems to be quite an impressive tactic that Ratner has used. He hasnt blatantly revived anybody that couldnt possibly have done such. Cyclops is dead, but the psychics have been revived. Xavier is alive in some fashion and this was really not a stretch when you look at the previous films. The guy is powerful. Jean Grey really never died imo.. she just ceased being Jean grey at that river and Phoenix hibernated and gained power until it was awoken how i see it. So as you can see, the films have done a much better job. When supernatural is the subject, it has a little more lenience, and even then a logic must be followed, and shouldnt be abused.

The arch-nemesis relationship is a simplified, exaggerated form of that returning bad penny in your life...Those feelings take time to evolve, and to hate (or love) each other that much, people have to spend time with each other, get to know each other, come together, fight, seperate, think it over, and come together again...and again, and again.

I ask you, how does such a relationship exist if the villain always dies?! Bottom line: bumping off characters limits the way they can relate to each other. No long term attachments or hatreds can form.

...Unless you bring them back from the dead...again and again.

-- END!

Oh but its only the beginning

What you say is true, but this type of thing has blatantly been abused in comics. While it may be acceptable there, there IS a limit as to how many times you can have a character avoid death or prison without breaking the illusion. Now if you can use this type of philosophy with say, 1 escape, and not from prison, but from batman so he never makes it to prison, then that will do fine. You choose 1 guy. With films of this style, people are too aware of the cliches and rules are needed imo.

I have an older friend who thinks these films are so ridiculous because they ALWAYS leave a loophole open for more. Mostly its to make money and i agree with him.

He fell fast asleep for X-men 3. Why? For one, Brett Ratner paced it wrong and rapid for action, and two its very supernatural and hes not that big of a fan of that. Although x3 was done with an eye for realism for those who arent bothered.

You know the film he kept wide open for? Batman Begins. And he even was annoyed at the idea of joker being reused... he doesnt like the rehash of that. Still yet, The film was realistic, it had relatable story, the villains die in massive trainwrecks.

Begins is special. Its progressive.

 

[Alexia Dark]

Dr. Quinn: Why a clown, 'Mr. J'?

Joker: Clowns frighten me. Its time Batman shared my dread.

 

[The Bruce]

 

[heypapajinx]

Dr. Quinn: Why a clown, 'Mr. J'?

Joker: Clowns frighten me. Its time Batman shared my dread.

i just laughed so loud i scared the straights.
thanks.

 

[Spidey_Zombie]

Dr. Quinn: Why a clown, 'Mr. J'?

Joker: Clowns frighten me. Its time Batman shared my dread.

HAHAHA, you made me choke on my soda...Hahahaha...

 

[Batty Belfry]

Dr. Quinn: Why a clown, 'Mr. J'?

Joker: Clowns frighten me. Its time Batman shared my dread.

LOL! Hahahahaha, your mind moves faster than a nun's first curry!

 

[Alexia Dark]

LOL! Hahahahaha, your mind moves faster than a nun's first curry!

Uh... thanks, I think

 

[xwolverine2]

Dr. Quinn: Why a clown, 'Mr. J'?

Joker: Clowns frighten me. Its time Batman shared my dread.

that would be funny

 

[Batty Belfry]

Uh... thanks, I think

LOL! It's a joke from Red Dwarf...

Curry---->Diarrhea---->fast

 

[Hotwire]

Anything neon!!!! Anyone returning from the dead. The death of ANY major villian. And most of all, I don't want to see any nipples!!!! Well, unless they're going to rate this movie "R", in which case, Katie's would be OK.

 

[Agentsands77]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/madsci/jokerbody1.jpg

 

[Caped Crusader1]

wtf

 

[Caped Crusader1]

this thread rocks

 

[crazy monkey]

What you say is true, but this type of thing has blatantly been abused in comics. While it may be acceptable there, there IS a limit as to how many times you can have a character avoid death or prison without breaking the illusion. Now if you can use this type of philosophy with say, 1 escape, and not from prison, but from batman so he never makes it to prison, then that will do fine.

To be fair, Arkham is not a prison. It is a hospital for the criminally insane. Sure, it has guards and locks and fences and alarms. But a prison is overseen by the government, with strict regiments and guidelines. Arkham is a privately run installation, and it writes its own rules. If there were frequent prison breaks in Gotham, I too would concur with a hearty WTF. But who hasn't heard of a sloppily run hospital, manned by employees who either have grown too apathetic to care or are bribed into breaking the rules? Hospitals, especially for mental illness, have a long-standing reputation for negligence. (No offense to anyone in the medical community. Certainly many facilities are run with the greatest care. I'm just sayin'.)

You also need to understand that comic books are in many ways symbolic. They are not intended to depict realism, but instead illustrate it. Arkham can easily be interpreted as the restrictions we put on our own dark intentions. We lock our true selves away under the pretense of "getting better," changing to fit in with society or to clean up our lives. However, our weak, selfish nature makes a "breakout" inevitable.

Think about it. Batman's rogues are almost all of a psycological bent, and they represent each a destructive constant of human nature: hedonism (Joker), duality (Two-Face), fanaticism (Poison Ivy), revenge (Mr. Freeze), dominance (Scarecrow), addiction (Manbat), denial (Harley Quinn), greed (Catwoman, in years past), -- I could go on.

Batman, in a sense, serves as a conscience for social deviants. He represents the constant guilt, the fear of immenent reprisal for people who do wrong and know it. Time and again, their conscience will "catch" them, throw those bad personality traits away into the dark, and they'll give normalcy another shot. Yet, all too often they revert back to type with the proper enticement or circumstance -- a breakout.

You choose 1 guy. With films of this style, people are too aware of the cliches and rules are needed imo.

Well, yes they are aware. The question is, does that matter? You want to talk cliches? What number Bond film are we on now? Twenty-seven, or thereabouts? Over two-dozen versions of exactly the same movie. Or how do the Lethal Weapons, Bad Boys, or Rush Hour flicks really differ from each other, besides the obvious casting decisions? Would you say they were successful?

Cliches in storytelling are inevitable, especially in Hollywood. Every story has been done, thousands of years before the camera was conceptualized. The trick is to simply put a new spin on old ideas, or mix genres into a cocktail that tastes just different enough to excite the audience.

I have an older friend who thinks these films are so ridiculous because they ALWAYS leave a loophole open for more. Mostly its to make money and i agree with him.

Me, too. Movies=money. No way around it.

He fell fast asleep for X-men 3. Why? For one, Brett Ratner paced it wrong and rapid for action, and two its very supernatural and hes not that big of a fan of that. Although x3 was done with an eye for realism for those who arent bothered.

You know the film he kept wide open for? Batman Begins. And he even was annoyed at the idea of joker being reused... he doesnt like the rehash of that. Still yet, The film was realistic, it had relatable story, the villains die in massive trainwrecks.

Begins is special. Its progressive.

A microwave that is powerful enough to vaporize the water in pipes under the street and yet doesn't fry the guy standing next to it? Isn't blood mostly water?

And have you ever seen the size of a hang-glider? No way a cape that small would glide a 200lb. man to the ground; he'd drop like a stone.

There are no armies of ninjas that punish the degredation of culture and morals, as cool as that would be.

And yes, it totally makes sense for a cop to call in the help of an outlaw by shining a giant lamp in the sky, on the roof of a police department that hates them both.

Realistic? No. Comic book come to life? Yes.

See? It was all just a new cocktail that your friend had never tasted. It wasn't realism that hooked him, it was the real emotions, the believable personalities, the great performances and the newness of the presentation. That's what made the film progressive and special, not train-wrecks and dead despots.

In film there's also the concept of tone. If the level of realism is constant throughout the movie, then its like a note being played at a proper pitch; you don't notice the sound as much as you feel it in you, the emotional response. But if the boundary between believable and not is suddenly shifted without explaination, then the illusion is broken; the note goes flat. Your tone is lost.

So realism is not neccessarily the key to a films success or relevance. Movie-making is a mix of every major form of art, and art is not neccessarily logical.

-- END!

 

[XCharlieX]

This is what I say when im done with a debate:

If you say so I disagree with many points there.

 

[XCharlieX]

A microwave that is powerful enough to vaporize the water in pipes under the street and yet doesn't fry the guy standing next to it? Isn't blood mostly water?

Yep I heard that a while ago. Can there not be a switch that just takes out large bodies of water in the pipes that arent mixed with blood etc? Easy.

And have you ever seen the size of a hang-glider? No way a cape that small would glide a 200lb. man to the ground; he'd drop like a stone.

Well someone else mentioned this and it seems that Batman Returns had a glider similar to Begins and it at least brought the stuntman to the ground it looks like. And even if its a stretch, the naked eye doesnt care, so yes, realism isnt taken, unless someone has studied a field far too much compared to an average person Theyre always figuring out different things anyway, look how small a cellphone is nowadays. This is what sells this illusion.

There are no armies of ninjas that punish the degredation of culture and morals, as cool as that would be.

No, but there are armies of terrorists that punish the degredation of culture. If the orient theyd learn a diferent form of fighting now wouldnt they? And if they had enough luck, they could potentially get connections high up while staying stealth if they had been around for thousands of years. People at that point wont even mention Al ghuls name because ANYBODY could come after them.

You know in religious beliefs, satan controls the world and misleads them. Now why cant an amazingly powerful group control the corrupt? lol

And yes, it totally makes sense for a cop to call in the help of an outlaw by shining a giant lamp in the sky, on the roof of a police department that hates them both.

I didnt know the police hated Gordon. Theres no evidence of that. In fact Loeb talked to him like an equal when he told Gordon "theres nobody left to send in" i felt. Gordon knows theres corruption in the police and justice system to the point of needing outside help. And after the finale im thinking some folks think they might need batman too

And the giant lamp is called a spotlight. Theyre very real.

Realistic? No. Comic book come to life? Yes.

Once again I feel these are such petty things that it doesnt constitute a straight up comic. 3 out of 4 of those are simply "what ifs" in a real world, and i really dislike it being always thrown into the bin of nonsense of comic books just because there are these "what ifs". This does not mean to saturate the film with silliness of escaping institutions always. I dont see the correlation.

See? It was all just a new cocktail that your friend had never tasted. It wasn't realism that hooked him, it was the real emotions, the believable personalities, the great performances and the newness of the presentation. That's what made the film progressive and special, not train-wrecks and dead despots.

Dead despots was a piece of the equation im sure. Its everything at once you mentioned there. In most films, people die and hes used to that and not the "life pill" constantly.

We can try to wiggle out of the necessary piece of the illusion of people actually perishing or going to Arkham and not coming back but I feel thats just counter productive to the films as a whole.

We really wont get anywhere here sir. I conclude with "if you say so"

 

[Alexia Dark]

I liked that little essay about Batman being a metaphor. I, however, just like the characters .