Putting the DETECTIVE back into Batman

Discussion in 'Batman World' started by Peyton Westlake, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    WHAT IF... Ben Affleck ,with either assistance or not, wrote a Batman film like no other we have ever seen before?

    What if it put the emphasis back on the detective facet of Batman lore?

    What if the story focused on ,not a super villain, but a serial killer instead?

    It could be one from his rogues gallery that fits the story best or even a new original character.

    It would finally show Batman knelt down at the crime scene carefully examining everything ala Columbo.
    Showing us things he is studying at the scene that look normal to you or I. Only as the movie progresses showing how important those subtle clues were to tracking the killer.
    Instead of him sitting in front of the huge computer in the Batcave to get his info.
    Of course when he finally does track him down there would be an epic fight between the 2 at the end.

    This is an approach to a Batman film I think if done right would be a huge hit.
    Has never been attempted and could further bring something fresh for Batman fanatics & the general public who thought they have seen everything Batman can do.
     
  2. Ponyboy

    Ponyboy Serenity now!

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    I like your angle, but wouldn't a story that focused on his detective skills require that the audience not know who the villain is? I mean, otherwise the entire time we'd be sitting there going... duh, Batman, it's Two-Face! (or something to that effect)... I think the detective aspect could work in small doses, or perhaps be a part of whatever the subplot of the film would be, but to be the main focus of Batman's skills might wear a bit thin. I think, for a comparison, that the detective-ness didn't work as well as it should have in the Robert Downey Jr "Sherlock Holmes" movies. Just a thought.
     
  3. BlueLanternKal

    BlueLanternKal Super-Lex

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    For that to work there needs to be several moving pieces

    Either Deadshot, Deathstroke, ect. are all out to assassinate Batman, but he doesn't know who put the bounty on his head and more importantly why (obviously to keep him distracted from discovering the true plot of the film). This would require that Bats use his detective vision/batcomputer in tandem with his deductive skills. There has to be a race against time type of tension.

    Or 3 of Batman's heavy hitting rogues escape Arkham and set up shop in Gotham. Joker, Two-Face, and Black Mask have an all out turf war for the city. Batman would need to put these guys away as well as again figuring out who would benefit from the chaos and more importantly why.

    I think this would be the best way of having the Batman be a crime/mystery thriller without giving away the mastermind behind the plot in the promotional phase.

    There are a couple of guys I can think of that fit that mastermind archetype. Obviously Ra's, Batman's most dangerous and honorable enemy, Hugo Strange, who would fit well with anything Arkham related, or the Riddler, who just wants to prove to everyone he's the smartest guy on the planet.
     
    #3 BlueLanternKal, Jul 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  4. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    If you ever watched an episode of Columbo you would see how it works.
    Every opening scene shows who the killer is and how they did it.
    The thing that makes you stay interested is how Columbo goes about investigating. Finding small & big clues that as the watcher , you would just shrug at.

    Since its Batman you would also mix in some hard action fight scenes & everything else we would expect to see from him.
     
  5. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    You could also go the other route & script it so we do not know who the killer is, only finding out in the end as Batman reveals his identity.

    That is one way to go, I just thought doing in ala Columbo was a different approach and hasnt been done that I know of outside Columbo's show.
     
  6. BlueLanternKal

    BlueLanternKal Super-Lex

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    C'mon man, I watched all of the John Luther series.

    Luther knows who did the crimes just by talking to the suspect. The stucture of the show is based on how John goes about proving that his intuition is correct and that's how he solves cases.

    I'd like them to follow something closer to Leverage. Batman unmasks the bad guy then smugly tells them where they ****ed up (proving he's the world's greatest detective) and it flashes back to the clues that Bats uncovered during the movie connecting the dots for the audience. On second or third viewings of the film the audience should be going "oh man, I can't believe I missed that, I'm so dumb!"
     
  7. Ponyboy

    Ponyboy Serenity now!

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    Yeah that's true... but I beg to differ just a teensy bit. I think what makes Columbo work, mainly, is Peter Falk. It's not that you're interested in the murder since you've already seen it, it's his character that carries the rest of the episode. The Columbo logic would require Batman/Bruce Wayne to be extremely interesting to watch, and on screen fairly consistently. So far which on-screen Batmans have held a presence like that? I think one of the things Burton did right was to keep Batman's screen presence minimal, to keep the mystique of the character in tact. But to be fair to you, I think what you're suggesting is fine for some viewers. For me it's too similar to these CSI shows that are on TV today, which I find to be anti-climatic and rather taxing. ;)
     
  8. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I have never seen John Luther, so I could very well be wrong!
    But the clues he picks up along the way is what I would focus on & agree with you.
     
  9. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    That is part of the problem. He doesnt have to be on screen more than any other film, just be interesting enough in his scenes that shows 'Wow he is more interesting doing other things then fighting'
    The director is going to have to have the actor as Batman give a really good performance.
    So much we want to see him doing other things other than kick butt.
    That's a challenge. But it is something future Batman films should have. Batman in costume has always been wooden & rather bland.
     
  10. Abishai100

    Abishai100 Registered

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    Peyton Westlake, I think your recommendations are intelligent, and this is a nifty thread.

    Batman is indeed a detective and perhaps America's version of Sherlock Holmes. Batman is only one step further in 'fantastic vigilantism' from Dick Tracy.

    Gotham City is a place that is literally boiling with criminal insanity, so it is very realistic to have Batman go after a serial killer such as Jack the Ripper.

    I think the Batman writings of Frank Miller and Len Wein are right in the direction you're talking about --- highlighting how Batman is not only a superhero but also a vigilante tackling killers who represent psychosis in all of us.

    For example, if we were to cast Batman rescuing Harley Quinn from a criminal conspiracy hell-hole which her 'friend' Joker has put her in by asking her to help him in a new Gotham City subway terrorism joint-mission involving Scarecrow (fear toxin spray), Penguin (hostage-taker), Killer Croc (train-driver killer), Dollmaker (newspaper contact), Riddler (attack timing planner), the Red Hood Gang (funding), and Mad Hatter (electric/computer control hacker), we could write something such as the following:

    "The Dark Knight tries to rescue Harley Quinn from this Gotham City Subway inferno, since she's only a woman and should not be a part of this venture coordinated by multiple super-ghouls. He decides to shoot Killer Croc and distract the others with sleeping gas long enough to snatch Harley Quinn and signal the GCPD to arrest the others!"

    Such a framework would highlight Batman's focus on the 'everyday problem-solving' of terrible crimes and strengthen the notion that he is like a mightier version of Dick Tracy.




    :sly:


    [​IMG]
     
  11. JimThompson

    JimThompson Registered

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    I'd be all for this. Probably not what we are going to get.
     
  12. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    DC should be more open to future ideas for their universe. They have to go in different directions and try to blaze new trails by trying different avenues with major characters.
     
  13. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I think DC can still use this concept while working in Deathstroke as the killer.
     
  14. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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  15. Milk Tray Guy

    Milk Tray Guy 70s Man of Action

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    I'd like to see Batman's detective skills highlighted more. It wouldn't have to be at the cost of action. Something along the lines of Mask of the Phantasm or Batman: Year Two could work, with Batman having to work out the identity of a foe who betters him throughout the movie.
     
  16. Vaibow

    Vaibow Registered

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    love your ideas here - completely agree, each character with their own movie need to be their own beast.

    WW is showing that.

    I love your idea.

    I always thought a movie in the style of Leon, would be a great war to introduce Robin.

    Bruce is up all night, going through the motions by day, solving certain crimes and tracking certain criminals.

    Along comes a boy - that no matter what Bruce does, can't shake it off, so he takes him in and he trains him up to get revenge.
     
  17. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I have fingers crossed , Matt Reeves trolls the internet late at night & stumbles across this thread & it stirs something in him to go in a brave new direction.
     
  18. Kreem Pi

    Kreem Pi Registered

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    What if Ben Affleck did write a dynamite detective yarn as you suggested, that Reeves has now discarded? The hope begins anew!
     
  19. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    That would be a total waste if that was the case! I'm not sure ,from what i could gather, Ben went that route with the script.
     
  20. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    Well, it seems the future of Batman, in the DC movie universe is still unclear.
    There seems to be no 'concrete' information of what its going to be or who is really involved 100%.
    I'd like to use this chance to get the attetion of WB before it goes another bland and predictable route for Batman.
    Having him finally shown doing the detective work behind the scenes and collection trace evidenceof a 'serial killer' type would be an interesting and definitely unique way to go.
    Dont worry Batman fans, as he gets ever closer to the 'killer' he will end up in a few fight scenes as he tracks him down , getting closer.
    Any thoughts?
     
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  21. Vaibow

    Vaibow Registered

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    If you had to compare it to a movie... which one?

    I feel a new way to show batman is that he is stealth, his suit is to blend in and if seen, scare the **** out of people just long enough for him to get out. I don't want him out on rooftops chatting,i want him stealth like a ninja or hit man.
     
  22. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I don't see it as just 1 singular movie. Its a very crazy, but unique idea for Batman.
    It has equal parts, Silence of the Lambs, Zodiac, & Seven while blended with John Wick style action.
    I am going to make another thread that outlines how I 'think' it can work involving those elements from the movies above.
     
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  23. Penguin

    Penguin The Buccaneer of Birds

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    We sincerely need the more humanistic and logical Batman of the 70s and Animated Series to make a return. I’m so tired of how the mid-2000s birthed this sociopathic, illogical version of the character. It has tainted the character.
     
  24. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I couldn't agree with you more.
    And I k now many are going to attack me & call me names for this comment but, I believe in some ways, Nolan hurt Batman on film in some ways.
     
  25. Peyton Westlake

    Peyton Westlake the Dark Avenger

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    I think that the detective side of him is the part, the unknown area of his world that needs to be explored.
    He's always referred to as a great detective, mostly in the comics.
    I'm not sure in the movies how many times it's even said.
    Or if it was ever said at all. (I'm including the Batman '89 films as well ,but I dont feel like going back & watching them all to listen to see if I'm right or wrong in that regard.)
    Anyway, I think it would be a breath of fresh air to see a younger (or older Batman reminiscing about his career and thinking back when he was younger) and showing us ,step by step how his analytical mind picks up clues in plain sight ,
    but we would never to think to look at or examine.
     

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