[raises the Finger]

[Darthphere]

You call me dense yet I'm not one fighting to give a dead man credit when he obviously didn't want it when he was alive.

I have no problem with wanting to give Finger credit, but I don't agree with the means. This thread is mainly Kane bashing. If you all didn't realize there wouldn't be a Batman today had Kane not had his original idea, no matter how bad it may have been.

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character. There was a Wizard article a while back that talked about this and how Bill Finger actually helped create Batman. It was up here but since Wizard got pissy about posting stuff from their magaizine I guess it was taken down. Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman. Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character.

Nor would he exsist if Kane didn't create the original idea.

Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman.

He should have fought for it ASAP.

Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.

I have no problem with your ends, just your means.

 

[Darthphere]

Nor would he exsist if Kane didn't create the original idea.


He should have fought for it ASAP.


I have no problem with your ends, just your means.

If you dont believe me about the Wizard thing thats fine, it was announced and everything. What exactly are my means? Ive already admitted to doing nothing to actually make them do this, just an e-mail i sent over two years ago. So what are my means if I may ask?

 

[Spidey-Bat]

degrading Kane in favor of putting Finger up on a pedestal

 

[Darthphere]

Thats your problem, not mine. If you actually read through the thread youll find bits and pieces of the article that talk about this. But ive doubt youve done that. And I dont degrade Kane at all, anytime ive said Kane sucks or hes a greedy bastard was in a joking tone. Without him we wouldnt have had the concept of Batman for him and Finger to collaborate on. I do give him credit but he gets credit eevry week when a new Batman comic comes out, Bill Finger doesnt.

 

[CConn]

Well, to my knowledge nobody hasnt done anything equating to bashing DC's door down. It mostly sticks to this thread and the Raise the Finger in my sig. Apparently that bothers some people. On my part I worte an e-mail to someoen at DC like 2 years ago and havent really done anything since. Its not like were picketing outside DC's offices or anything like that. Its just discussion here within this thread mostly. I didnt know that bothered so many people.

It doesn't bother me, honestly. I basically agree with you. Unlike you, instead of this thread being my first introduction to what Bill Finger deserves, mine was a bunch of guys who, as Spidey-Bat mentioned, bash Kane in favor of Finger. Now, I know that's not you, I know that's not what this thread is about, but still that negative, and wrong, vibe sorta gets lodged in your brain.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Thats your problem, not mine. If you actually read through the thread youll find bits and pieces of the article that talk about this. But ive doubt youve done that. And I dont degrade Kane at all, anytime ive said Kane sucks or hes a greedy bastard was in a joking tone. Without him we wouldnt have had the concept of Batman for him and Finger to collaborate on. I do give him credit but he gets credit eevry week when a new Batman comic comes out, Bill Finger doesnt.

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

 

[Comicfilmer]

Batman wouldn't be Batman without Kane and Finger both. Both men deserve equal credit for creating the greatest comic book character to ever grace the ink and paper.

 

[Darthphere]

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

Ok. Its all good then.

 

[CConn]

Batman wouldn't be Batman without Kane and Finger both. Both men deserve equal credit for creating the greatest comic book character to ever grace the ink and paper.

Exactamundo.

 

[Elijya]

that's because Wizard doesnt know about it, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. There's a chance they might not care, but there's a chance they would, as well

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

So wait, going back to your business analogy...

If I wrote a report, and said I didn't want my name on it for whichever reason, you would go against my wishes and force my name onto the report?

I'm not saying that's the case with Finger, exactly, but my opinion has always been while he should be credited, since he (to my knowledge, at least) did very little to see that he got credit, I don't see why I, or anyone else, should have to bash down DC's doors in his honor.

Agreed 1000%. My exact POV on this subject exactly.

Well, to my knowledge nobody hasnt done anything equating to bashing DC's door down. It mostly sticks to this thread and the Raise the Finger in my sig. Apparently that bothers some people. On my part I worte an e-mail to someoen at DC like 2 years ago and havent really done anything since. Its not like were picketing outside DC's offices or anything like that. Its just discussion here within this thread mostly. I didnt know that bothered so many people.

I don't think it bothers people per se.......although there are some dick heads out there that go out of they're way to offend Kane in the process.

I just think some people have misconceptions about how it all went down. As far as I know, Kane created the character........visually. Finger created Gotham, Gordon, I think even the Bruce Wayne persona was his and Kane's idea. Both men created the character...........most people seem to stay on one side of the fence.

Batman as we know him today wouldnt exist if Bill Finger hadnt refined the character. There was a Wizard article a while back that talked about this and how Bill Finger actually helped create Batman. It was up here but since Wizard got pissy about posting stuff from their magaizine I guess it was taken down. Mostly he died very poor and struggled through life, while the Kane Estate to this day is raking up the big bucks with everything tht is Batman. Thats where my fight comes from, but as ive said and will say bluntly this time, if you have a pronlem with that thats fine, just dont expect me to stop giving Bill Finger credit.

Why didn't he sue?

I have read them once I pass through all the Kane bashing. I have no problem with you, it's all the posters who come here and ungratefully bash Kane just because the guy who made some changes to the design doesn't get credit.

Yeah, I with you on that.


I think we ALL need to remember......Batman was really the SECOND SUPERHERO made.....it was uncharted territories. There were no rule books on by lines and there were no guy rules on who gets credit. Nobody would have imagined that any of those characters would become icons.

I think there was a quote from the Documentary of the History of the Batman on the BATMAN SE DVD......someone said on it that for characters like this, the creation blongs to the man that got the original concept....everyone else only adds and helps define the character.

 

[etrigan69]

 

[super85]

DC recently said that they can't even send royalties from Fingers credited Batman-work (Finger is credited as scripter/writer in the Batman Archive collections) to anyone since Finger has no family or relatives. A byline would be great, but the Kane estate seems to be against it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Obviously.

 

[super85]

Don't know if you guys have talked about this already,but I heard (note heard,not sure if its true) that the reason you can't find the Deluxe edition of Batman Begins with the comicbook dc included anymore is becouse of the Kane estate *****ing about DC writing "Written by Bill Finger Art Bob Kane" on the Reprint of TEC #27. A few DVD sites lists the Deluxe edition as discontinued.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Don't know if you guys have talked about this already,but I heard (note heard,not sure if its true) that the reason you can't find the Deluxe edition of Batman Begins with the comicbook dc included anymore is becouse of the Kane estate *****ing about DC writing "Written by Bill Finger Art Bob Kane" on the Reprint of TEC #27. A few DVD sites lists the Deluxe edition as discontinued.

Batman Chronicles volume one and Batman Archives and Batman: The Dark Knight Archives all say "Written by Bill Finger" and there not out of print. They still don't give him his co-creator credit but at least the public can now see that Bill Finger (not Bob Kane) wrote Batman from the start and Bob Kane was just the artist.

 

[Darthphere]

Batman Chronicles volume one and Batman Archives and Batman: The Dark Knight Archives all say "Written by Bill Finger" and there not out of print. They still don't give him his co-creator credit but at least the public can now see that Bill Finger (not Bob Kane) wrote Batman from the start and Bob Kane was just the artist.

For the record. Bill Finger has always been credited for the stories he wrote. Thats not in question at all.

 

[super85]

I'm just guessing here, but it seemed, judging by the rumour(if thats something to judge..) that they disliked such a high-profile thing as the DVD giving credit to Finger. The fact that Finger, Moldoff, Robinson etc are credited in the archives and cronicles isn't as "mainstream". There's a few thousand people buying the Arcives,and millions buying the DVD.

But again, I just typed what I heard. It hasn't been confirmed that "The Kane Estate gets pissed of at Batman Begins deluxe edition"

 

[theMan-Bat]

For the record. Bill Finger has always been credited for the stories he wrote. Thats not in question at all.

Wrong, he was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger, writer Gardner Fox, artist Jerry Robinson, etc. So an average reader thought Bob Kane created, wrote and drew Batman all himself.

 

[Darthphere]

Wrong, he was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger, writer Gardner Fox, artist Jerry Robinson, etc. So an average reader thought Bob Kane created, wrote and drew Batman all himself.

I dont know what comics youre reading man.

 

[Bathead]

Wrong, he was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger, writer Gardner Fox, artist Jerry Robinson, etc. So an average reader thought Bob Kane created, wrote and drew Batman all himself.

I can attest to that.
I started reading Batman in the pre-Adam West years, and all I knew was the "Created by Bob Kane" logo on the front page of every Batman comic. It wasn't until a few years ago, when I first went going online and reading various Bat-forums, that I discovered the truth. I had never heard of Dick Sprang or Jerry Robinson, let alone Bill Finger. When I was reading comics from the sixties up thru the early seventies, those names (and others who worked on a plethora of other DC comics) were never mentioned.
I think it might have been Marvel that was the first publisher to start crediting their creators on a regular basis in the sixties. DC didn't start doing that until the seventies.
(CORRECTION)
After thinking about it some more, I now remember that DC *did* start crediting it's creative people during the early sixties, right around the time of the "New Look" Batman and the TV show. But people like Bill Finger who were part of the previous decades were only known to industry insiders.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I dont know what comics youre reading man.

Bill Finger was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger. They should have said "by Bill Finger & Bob Kane".

 

[super85]

Yup. Finger/Robinson/Sprang/Moldoff etc got their names on the credits on reprints, Im not sure if it was the Archives that started this first,or did earlier reprints already have them credited. I believe DC started to put the writers names in the regular books in the 60s.

 

[Darthphere]

Bill Finger was not credited. He did not see his name in print on the Batman comics he wrote. All they said was "by Bob Kane". There was no mention of writer Bill Finger. They should have said "by Bill Finger & Bob Kane".

Wow, thanks for showing me this man. Where did you get these?


I have a couple of issues of Batman that Bill Finger was on but never actually noticed that.