Rate MAN OF STEEL......once and for all

[Joeyjojo72]

Using a term like "greater truth" kinda makes my point. Dear lord.

And the vast majority of detractors, on this board anyway, don't think the GA and fandom hated MoS. Meh is by far the most common response. Including my own.

But as I said people will believe whatever makes them feel better. I just think its a somewhat interesting phenomenon, especially given how unimportant a freaking movie is in the big scheme of things. The effort it must take is kind of impressive actually.

And keep in mind we arent talking about someones personal opinion/experience of the film. Thats for the most part subjective.

 

[Keehar]

Superman: The Movie is the only Superman film I would consider great.

A lot of MOS fans love to paint the movies detractors as a black hole of negativity, or even worse, be ignorant enough as to paint detractors as being blindingly loyal to Donner, so much so that they would've never accepted MOS. Those fans seem to forget the fact that EVERYONE was hyped for MOS based off the trailers and promotion, all of which presented a film that wasn't Donner like at all, but an epic modern film featuring Superman.

It really says something when a sizable amount of people are disappointed with this movie, regardless of whether or not they're the majority or minority.

I agree. But I would also say Superman 2 the Donner cut is great, too.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

My feeling is that if you take the best parts of Supes 1 and 2 and (somehow) combine them into one 3 hour film, you have something close to a masterpiece.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I was nevah a Superman fan to begin with, so my experience with MOS was fresh. I like the film, but didn't love it. My main beef was with Pa' Kent's death. That is my only problem with the film. I don't mind the destruction or Superman killing.

Oh lawd.

I hated Iron Man 3 a lot more.

 

[The Batman]

I agree. But I would also say Superman 2 the Donner cut is great, too.

I agree, but since that Superman II isnt a completed film, I didn't want to mention it.

 

[SiegePerilous]

It is very very important to MoS fans that the general public and fandom love the film. They will cherry pick the most dubious sources (IMDB, Cinemascore. They arent picky) to reinforce this belief. Convincing them otherwise, or even questioning it, is utterly pointless.

1. The critics were Snyder haters and/or they didn't "get" it.
2. The box office was great for a reboot and was exactly what WB was hoping for.
3. The dvd sales prove the film is beloved by the GA anyway.
4. The response would have been even bigger if it werent for either a) old farts nostalgic for some outdated version of Supes or b) fallout from Superman Returns
5. The various polls on SHH "prove" that the real fans actually loved it.
6. Etc...

If it means that much to them, let em have it I say. Thats why Ive abandoned the MoS/Supes forums for the most part.

How is this different than the fans who disliked the film citing it's Rotten Tomatoes score as proof that it sucks? Not saying you, but I see it pop up all the time on here and other places.

Not to mention people in this thread saying the poll might have been tampered with because God forbid people like this movie.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

The "poll" in this thread, even if it wasnt padded, is a minuscule and therefore meaningless sample (even if we are only talkinga bout the Hype, which we arent). Critics, especially the non-bloggers/fanboys, didnt much like the film. And most of the positive reviews were far from raves. If you think critic reviews are meaningless bs, fine. But thats the reality.

Again, I didnt hate or even dislike the film. Its just depressingly average, in an era where the bar has been raised much much higher than ever before. Put the cb/sh movies releases this year on a dartboard, cover your eyes and the dart will probably land on a movie that was head and shoulders better and (equally important imo) more interesting than MoS. Include other action/genre fare (Dawn, Edge of Tomorrow) and its a near certainty. There is simply no excuse for what we got, given this now-established standard and the talent available.

 

[Marvin]

Using a term like "greater truth" kinda makes my point. Dear lord.

And the vast majority of detractors, on this board anyway, don't think the GA and fandom hated MoS. Meh is by far the most common response. Including my own.

But as I said people will believe whatever makes them feel better. I just think its a somewhat interesting phenomenon, especially given how unimportant a freaking movie is in the big scheme of things. The effort it must take is kind of impressive actually.

And keep in mind we arent talking about someones personal opinion/experience of the film. Thats for the most part subjective.

The greater truth being, if your post is accurate or if my edit of your post is accurate as to describe what tends to happen around here.
Anyone can walk in here and say what you said in that particular post, just as easily as anyone can walk in here and present the edit.
Which one is right? Who knows. That someone would have the gull to actually presume they have the grounds to do so however, that's my point.

Everyone(every few posts or so) makes a comment about what the other party is doing, ignoring the idea that they themselves are making the same assumptions.

It's an endless circle as I said. Dear lord indeed.

I think the cherry picking point is the most poignant. That tends to happens every time an appeal to any sort of consensus is made, 'important' critics or otherwise.

 

[SiegePerilous]

The "poll" in this thread, even if it wasnt padded, is a minuscule and therefore meaningless sample. Critics, especially the non-bloggers/fanboys, didnt much like the film. And most of the positive reviews were far from raves. If you think critic reviews are meaningless bs, fine. But thats the reality.

Again, I didnt hate or even dislike the film. Its just depressingly average, in an era where the bar has been raised much much higher than ever before.

It's still holding up some other peoples' opinions in an attempt to validate your own and show that the other side is in the "wrong." At the end of the day, critics are just offering their own subjective opinion. If I like the movie, why should I give a crap if they didn't? Same reason why you shouldn't give a crap about people liking the movie showing positive reviews.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "padded." Are you considering it meaningless because the "Excellent" and "Very Good" options are ahead?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

read more closely. i went out of my way to address the "issues" you seem to have. you'll have to read the entire sentences im afraid.

but just to make it clear, reviews are SUBJECTIVE by their very nature. And unscientific online opinion polls, with a tiny tiny sample size, prove nothing about anything. got it?

Anyway, if you loved the movie, there are more than enough people here and elsewhere to join you in that love. Be satisfied with that. Its all subjective. And more or less universally loved films - the TDK's and TA's and GotG's (et al) of the world - don't come along that often despite the recent bounty. Even really bad movies have their devoted followings. Which is great!

 

[Tempest]

My feeling is that if you take the best parts of Supes 1 and 2 and (somehow) combine them into one 3 hour film, you have something close to a masterpiece.

There were good parts to those films?

Sorry to harsh your squee, but no. Those films were seriously some of the worst. Ridiculous acting, annoying Lois, annoying Superman. The only good thing about those films was Christopher Reeves, because he was hot.

Good lord, I hated those films. So I guess I feel about those films how you feel about MOS. Interesting.

So what don't I like about MOS?

Although I loved the Kryptonian sequence, I felt like it was maybe a little too long.

I would have used that time to show the struggles of the Kents with baby!Clark.

The fight sequences were fine, but perhaps a tad bit long.

I dunno, I liked most of it, so my complaints are few. Unlike some, I had very few problems with the script, and although some of the editing wasn't perfect, I didn't find it so horrible that it ruined the film for all time for me.

 

[Boy Scout]

I meant for what you said about both movies.

Yes.

Either way, I believe you(given what I preach about the individual experience), I also find myself believing all the others who say the opposite(of both movies).
Some people think inception and all of nolans films are cold emotionally and due to his direction(even the recent one) and others feel differently.

Yeah. I was only describing my experience with the film.

Just wanted to say, I agree with all of this. It seems we had a very similar experience of the film.

And if you feel anywhere near the way I do about it.... I am very sorry for your loss!

I'm over it. I'm mostly indifferent towards the film now. I usually try to pretend it doesn't exist, but it's a little hard when you're somewhat anticipating the sequel.

 

[The Batman]

See, anytime someone goes in on MOS the way Tempest did on STM/SII, the B v S boards will gossip about your negativity and snide comments.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Tempest, I didnt hate MoS. And my feelings about Supes 1 and 2 have nothing to do with the subject at hand. I was just responding to a previous, unrelated post. And i would never, ever compare a 35 year old movie to a modern SH film like MoS. In fact, if MoS had been similar in any way to the Donner films, then I would have hated it for reals. The fact that SR was basically an homage/sequel to those movies was why it was such a failure.

 

[Boy Scout]

See, anytime someone goes in on MOS the way Tempest did on STM/SII, the B v S boards will gossip about your negativity and snide comments.

And yet we're the ones wearing blinders.

 

[Human Torch]

As big a fan as I am of the Donner Superman,I was willing to embrace a "modern" Superman.I wanted to like MOS.

Spoiler

And if it were a good movie,I'm sure I would've.

 

[Marvin]

but just to make it clear, reviews are SUBJECTIVE by their very nature. And unscientific online opinion polls, with a tiny tiny sample size, prove nothing about anything. got it?

This is my point about cherry picking personified.
You cite critics, then are careful to make sure to point to the ones that matter, not the bloggers/fans(which is funny cause I find the faraci's were the worst personally), but yea you cite the amount of critics and their subjective opinions, then make this point about how worthless an unscientific poll of subjectivity with a 'tiny sample size' proves nothing about anything.

It's the irony of it all. Because there are just that much less people voting here(I didn't mind you) than there are; yay's or nay's on the RT spreadsheet(sarcasm)
Compared to the sample size that actually matters being the millions of people in the GA over various years.

Sample sizes...

 

[Joeyjojo72]

no idea what ht just posted but i am so grateful for the ignore feature right now.

Marvin the top critics and "general" critics scores on RT are virtually identical. Take your pick. Whether you go by % or by score, its all the same. My point was that the more established "professional" critics - the ones that gave it a positive score - seemed to be more lukewarm in their praise when you actually read them. The score averages are the same though. This has nothing to do with the "poll" results in this one forum on this one board that includes only a small fraction of members and is in no way scientific. Same goes for any other poll on the Hype. Theyre fun, but for glaringly obvious reasons prove nothing about the films reception among the GA or among sh/cb fans in general. Or even what the majority of Hype members think of the movie, since most of them didnt participate. I agree that harping about the likelihood that people voted more than once (as people are wont to do in these kinds of polls) is an irrelevant observation.

 

[Tempest]

Tempest, I didnt hate MoS. And my feelings about Supes 1 and 2 have nothing to do with the subject at hand. I was just responding to a previous, unrelated post. And i would never, ever compare a 35 year old movie to a modern SH film like MoS. In fact, if MoS had been similar in any way to the Donner films, then I would have hated it for reals. The fact that SR was basically an homage/sequel to those movies was why it was such a failure.

Why wouldn't you compare an old version to a new version? If a film is good, it's good, and it stands the test of time (even if certain special effects are perhaps not so good).

Superman Returns failed for a couple of reasons. Films can be homages and be successful. What helps is if the source material is actually good, and the new story needs to be well-thought out - neither of which was the case for the unfortunate SR.

 

[Human Torch]

no idea what ht just posted but i am so grateful for the ignore feature right now.

Are you so insecure in your opinion that you have to keep pointing out that you have me on ignore?Grow the heck up.

 

[The Batman]

^ He can't read that.

 

[Human Torch]

^ He can't read that.

Quote it so he can.t:

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Lol so nice...

He's the only one btw. I dont ignore people just for disagreeing with me. Its a very very low bar.

 

[Marvin]

Joey, my point was that you are correct that it's all of it subjective opinion. That being said, my greater point is that the minute you said a 'tiny poll is not indicative of anything', you pretty much sunk the idea of bringing up that 'tiny poll' called RT(and the rest) outside of the cherry picking action that is. What does it matter that those tallied opinions come with a title and the ones on any such website don't? It's all just a tiny poll vs the far greater audience reaction/reception. Especially when you actually account for a decade worth of reception(see 2001's immediate reception vs it's 30 year..etc).

Maybe if it was a million critics, I'd actually start to see some greater value in that site...it would depend on just how much bigger the GA was at that point, and how long the film had been out.
Just saying.

 

[Human Torch]

For the record,I could care less how many people put me on ignore.That's just one less twit I have to deal with.But if you're going to point out that you have me on ignore,each and every time I post in the same thread,you really need to grow the hell up.