Justice League Ray Fisher Is Victor Stone/Cyborg

[BlackSuitTrael]

This is deeper than the what the surface indicates. Nobody here are investigators. Front row seats, though. WB is going to try to bury it the best of their abilities.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Yeah there’s no point in any of trying to say what’s real and what isn’t. None of us were present. All we can do is observe and hope for a just outcome.

 

[BlackSuitTrael]

Yeah there’s no point in any of trying to say what’s real and what isn’t. None of us were present. All we can do is observe and hope for a just outcome.

Ray seems like a bright individual. He might be lining his ducks up in a row. He must feel he has enough support that has yet to be revealed to even fight the good fight. Lets see where it goes.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Ray seems like a bright individual. He might be lining his ducks up in a row. He must feel he has enough support that has yet to be revealed to even fight the good fight. Lets see where it goes.

I will say, I find it wild that WB tried to pull the “Hamada wasn’t event around back then” card to discredit Ray. Ray never said Hamada called him back then. He said Hamada hit him up after he spoke out, which as we all know just happened.

WB is not looking good in this imo.

 

[KalvinEllis]

That part must have been in reference to his claim that Hamada tried to throw Berg and Whedon under the bus for Johns' sake. I'm guessing they mentioned that Hamada wasn't around back then to shoot down the idea that he was biased towards Johns like Fisher claimed.

 

[Da-Scribe]

That part must have been in reference to his claim that Hamada tried to throw Berg and Whedon under the bus for Johns' sake. I'm guessing they mentioned that Hamada wasn't around back then to shoot down the idea that he was biased towards Johns like Fisher claimed.

Still wasn’t really relevant to what Ray was saying. He wasn’t talking about the events during filming, but when he went public afterward.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Still wasn’t really relevant to what Ray was saying. He wasn’t talking about the events during filming, but when he went public afterward.

The statement doesn't talk about the events either, it mentions that Hamada wasn't a part of the reshoots to paint him as an unbiased individual that wasn't involved with the previous regime and has no reason to try to protect any of the parties accused by Fisher. Or at least that seemed to be the point it was trying to illustrate. How is it not relevant to what Fisher is saying when he directly accused Hamada of wanting him to get off Johns' back and the statement refutes that particular claim of bias on Hamada's part.

 

[BlackSuitTrael]

Lightcast put it in a fun way to understand:

Basically, it's like the parents (Warner Media) hiring a babysitter (WB) leaving for the day and the children (Whedon, Berg, Johns) catches the couch on fire. Instead of calling the parents to let them know what's going on, the babysitter decides to help the kids cover it up before the parents get home but failed to realize that the neighbor kid (Fisher) already called the parents and let them know.

Fisher already went to Warner Media, the top of the top. WB, though, undercut the situation and hired their IN HOUSE, BIAS INVESTIGATOR to release a statement before the true people in power could.

Translation: Ray Fisher already has Warner Media involved while WB is trying to discredit the situation before mommy and daddy find out...

...but they already know.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Still not sure how exactly did Fisher instantly know that guy was an "IN HOUSE, BIAS INVESTIGATOR". How did he learn that after only having a brief Zoom call with him. He literally says in that email that he "definitely" works for WB. What did that guy say to him that made him instantly reach that conclusion. Shouldn't he elaborate more on that part to give his claim a little more credibility.

 

[Dar]

Still not sure how exactly did Fisher instantly know that guy was an "IN HOUSE, BIAS INVESTIGATOR". How did he learn that after only having a brief Zoom call with him. He literally says in that email that he "definitely" works for WB. What did that guy say to him that made him instantly reach that conclusion. Shouldn't he elaborate more on that part to give his claim a little more credibility.

I wondered about that too. And presumably it was a scheduled call. I hope Ray knows better to vet the parties involved beforehand, and he should have legal counsel or are least a witness present regardless who hired the investigators for his own protection.

 

[The Guard]

If that's true WB have been really dumb by trying to misrepresent Fisher's interaction with the investigation team.

They're not misrepresenting his interaction. He has, thus far, absolutely refused to cooperate with the investigation. He admitted that he refused to continue a statement.

He seems to be doing this on his own and to be a little in over his head, as it doesn't appear that he has an attorney, because no attorney would allow him into a statement scenario without explaining things fully.

The deeper we get into this, the more he strikes me as one of those people who thinks they can handle everything themselves, without really understanding the processes involved.

He isn't covering his tracks well either. How did he know the investigator has been "definitely put on the case by WB, not Warner Media"? Or where his findings would "directly" go to? Let's take Ray's word for it and assume the investigator truly didn't represent Warner Media, how did Ray instantly learn that during their brief Zoom call? The investigator obviously won't be telling him any of that if he wanted to trick him into believing that he was an actual 3rd party investigator. So how did Ray know.

He was probably asked to give a statement. People get jump when things are going to be recorded.

This is deeper than the what the surface indicates. Nobody here are investigators. Front row seats, though. WB is going to try to bury it the best of their abilities.

(Raises hand) I am. Was, at least. It really feels like he got scared off when asked to record his statement or somethign along those lines.

Still not sure how exactly did Fisher instantly know that guy was an "IN HOUSE, BIAS INVESTIGATOR". How did he learn that after only having a brief Zoom call with him. He literally says in that email that he "definitely" works for WB. What did that guy say to him that made him instantly reach that conclusion. Shouldn't he elaborate more on that part to give his claim a little more credibility.

It doesn't matter, because the only thing an investigator can do is obtain Ray's own statement.

Most third party investigators just aren't biased. They're paid not to be, and they just don't care.

I wondered about that too. And presumably it was a scheduled call. I hope Ray knows better to vet the parties involved beforehand, and he should have legal counsel or are least a witness present regardless who hired the investigators for his own protection.

I don't think he has legal counsel. At least he didn't, at the time. Legal counsel wouldn't have allowed him into that situation.

 

[BatLobster]

I would advise anyone not to get too emotionally invested in this and just let things play out.

If I'm being as objective as possible about it, Fisher isn't going about this in a smart manner. He should hire a lawyer. If he was wronged in such a way that warrants legal retribution, why not sue the people he's accusing? What is his end goal here? Public humiliation?

Even if there is something serious under the surface here, I don't see how his very public strategy is a smart one because two can play that game and Fisher is making it more and more clear that he is out of his depth in how he's handling this, which is not going to help his credibility.

 

[Mani-Man]

Still not sure how exactly did Fisher instantly know that guy was an "IN HOUSE, BIAS INVESTIGATOR". How did he learn that after only having a brief Zoom call with him. He literally says in that email that he "definitely" works for WB. What did that guy say to him that made him instantly reach that conclusion. Shouldn't he elaborate more on that part to give his claim a little more credibility.

Yeah, thats the kind of stuff that makes things look rather bad for Fisher.
As if he wants to knock them down for revenge or so and not because of something genuine.
But maybe he i just such a person who can tell...but then going "this person definitly works for WB" is still a far stretch unless he has proof.

You can tell a lot that he counts on the support of the snyderfans and that he is believed no matter what he says.
If the way he goes about this is good or bad? I dont know, maybe in order to fight someone like WB you need to do it this way.
Its a very complicated situation.

 

[Aurakles]

I think there are a few reasons Fisher might want to have this publicised.
Part of it may be that he sees secrecy as part of the problem. During the discussion of this a number of times I've seen the argument that there are and always have been abusive directors and producers in Hollywood. That it's just part of the industry and it would need to be something like sexual or racial harrasment to be worth pursuing. Fisher could be taking a stand against that very mentality, against the culture of abuse and secrecy. He could be saying I don't care if it's always been this way, it's wrong and I'll speak out even if it costs me my career.
Going public can often, and in this case did, convince others to come forwards with their own experiences.
Sometimes problems are only resolved when they are brought into the light of day, when they are exposed to the public glare. Backroom deals and confidential settlements can allow toxic environments to fester.

Fisher has said that between the filming of JL and him coming out about this, he had been speaking to people and trying to get other witnesses to speak out. Some did on the condition of anonymity, suggesting that they are afraid for their jobs if they come forward.
If Fisher is responsible for protecting these people's livelihoods, it makes sense he would very cautious about the integrity of the investigator.
We don't know what was said on the zoom call, possibly the investigator was very confrontational, or pressed Fisher for the names of the other witnesses.

 

[KalvinEllis]

He blatantly states the investigator "definitely" worked for WB right after ending the call. You don't just come to that conclusion just because the investigator might have been confrontational. This is why specific details are important, otherwise it can come off as a blanket statement. And since Ray doesn't give us any specific details again, we once again have to speculate how the actual events could've transpired. And what other witnesses though. So far not a single person, anonymous or otherwise, has come out to corroborate any of Fisher's accusations. Or am I missing something here.

 

[kguillou]

You know whats kind of sad, I know people are skeptical, but looking outside this forum, people seem almost unanimously against Fisher now. I was checking the comments on one site and I couldnt find one comment that giving him the benefit of the doubt, people think he's a liar and I think now they feel like Fisher chickened out of talking to that investigator because he knew he had no grounds to stand on and is using the excuse of " he works for warner pictures etc."

I know people are eager for details but its kind of stunning to me how no one believes him...except for the hardcore Snyder cut people it seems.

 

[Micromind]

You know whats kind of sad, I know people are skeptical, but looking outside this forum, people seem almost unanimously against Fisher now. I was checking the comments on one site and I couldnt find one comment that giving him the benefit of the doubt, people think he's a liar and I think now they feel like Fisher chickened out of talking to that investigator because he knew he had no grounds to stand on and is using the excuse of " he works for warner pictures etc."

I know people are eager for details but its kind of stunning to me how no one believes him...except for the hardcore Snyder cut people it seems.

It seems (to me) that he has some evidence but wants to give it to people who will be unbiased. It's possible that he thinks that WB (the movie studio) may be biased towards GJ, so rather than giving their Investigator the evidence, he is waiting to give it to the person appointed by Warner Media.

Why he is not taking formal legal route ? I dunno, maybe he wants to see if this matter can be settled without going to Courts or maybe he's still hopeful of getting future roles in DCEU.

 

[kguillou]

Yeah I am almost positive that whatever Fisher wants out of this—he doesnt wnat this to go to court. This isnt about him throwing people in jail—at least i dont think.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I would advise anyone not to get too emotionally invested in this and just let things play out.

If I'm being as objective as possible about it, Fisher isn't going about this in a smart manner. He should hire a lawyer. If he was wronged in such a way that warrants legal retribution, why not sue the people he's accusing? What is his end goal here? Public humiliation?

Even if there is something serious under the surface here, I don't see how his very public strategy is a smart one because two can play that game and Fisher is making it more and more clear that he is out of his depth in how he's handling this, which is not going to help his credibility.

My guess would be that the end goal is utilizing public outrage to makes Johns step down or be fired. He’s the only person left to really suffer consequences over this, because unless it got into heavy duty David O. Russell territory or worse it’s extremely unlikely to have an effect on Whedon and Berg is long gone.

Gonna try to avoid judgment. Ray is clearly playing this badly but obviously WB is going to cover their own ass no matter what.

 

[KalvinEllis]

You know whats kind of sad, I know people are skeptical, but looking outside this forum, people seem almost unanimously against Fisher now. I was checking the comments on one site and I couldnt find one comment that giving him the benefit of the doubt, people think he's a liar and I think now they feel like Fisher chickened out of talking to that investigator because he knew he had no grounds to stand on and is using the excuse of " he works for warner pictures etc."

I know people are eager for details but its kind of stunning to me how no one believes him...except for the hardcore Snyder cut people it seems.

I question the timing of his tweets but I don't think he's lying. There's something admirable about what he's doing and I don't believe he's making ALL of this up. I need him to share something more specific and back up his claims in order to give him the full benefit of the doubt. Not "he threatened my career", or "he threw them under the bus to protect him" or "the investigator was definitely hired by WB". Enough finger pointing and baseless accusations, show us something that gives him more credibility.

 

[brandeezy89]

The main thing that makes or breaks Ray's case are the specifics of the abuse. If it's just because Whedon or Johns yelled at him or said "I will end your career", I don't see that going anywhere court wise. David O'Russell was apparently abusive in this manner on the set of American Hustle, he made the cast/crew cry and it was known knowledge by Sony Pictures. At the end of the day, nothing was done. The only reason we know about it is because of the Sony hack and Amy Adams later.

 

[Dar]

This isn’t going the legal route because probably nothing criminal happened. This is a workplace misconduct complaint so I don’t know why Ray wouldn’t have already had a union rep lined up for a scheduled zoom call. I’m in HR and employees are never interviewed one-on-one to protect both sides.

I think Ray just wants to expose abusive people in power. He had a great experience under Snyder and probably thought that’s the norm (and should be, in an ideal world). In which case I think he would’ve been better off just being more specific from the start since he’s clearly using social media to rile up public outrage, and the only reason I can’t fully back Ray yet is I always need specifics before I condemn anyone for their behavior.

Also, I do wonder what prompted Ray to tweet about Walter Hamada’s phone call now when it apparently happened July. I don't know what his strategy is but I hope he's getting sound advice.

 

[KalvinEllis]

My guess would be that the end goal is utilizing public outrage to makes Johns step down or be fired. He’s the only person left to really suffer consequences over this, because unless it got into heavy duty David O. Russell territory or worse it’s extremely unlikely to have an effect on Whedon and Berg is long gone.

Gonna try to avoid judgment. Ray is clearly playing this badly but obviously WB is going to cover their own ass no matter what.

Other than being Stargirl's showrunner, there's nothing else for him to step down from. He hasn't been in an executive position of power since he first "stepped down" in 2018. He's freelance writing and producing with his own production company, he's not part of WB or DC's current power structure.

 

[Micromind]

Other than being Stargirl's showrunner, there's nothing else for him to step down from. He hasn't been in an executive position of power since he "stepped down" in 2018. He's freelance writing and producing with his own production company, he's not part of WB or DC's current power structure.

Yeah, even if Goeff Johns decides to completely walk away from WB/DC (which seems unlikely), he will still receive money as he will be required to be credited as an Executive Producer for various movies that will get sequel (Aquaman for example) and for Syndicated TV shows, where he was Producer/ EP.

He has started his own Production Company "Mad Ghost Entertainment".

Geoff Johns Leaves DC Entertainment Position, Launches Production Company | Den of Geek

 

[kguillou]

Interesting video here guys. He just uploaded this an hour ago. Ray dives into much more detail on what went on between him and Hamada.

He also mentions something interesting at the end of the video. He says that this isnt his first rodeo, he spearheaded something similar with a job he worked at back in 2010 that let him go and worked with the union to fight the company. Just goes to show you the type of individual Ray is, he seems like a guy that doesnt take workplace injustices lightly at ALL.