Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

I think part of it might be that Warners didn't just say they supported the conviction and wanted change, but seemed to be trying to paint themselves in a good light at the same time. The message could be read as self aggrandizing.
As to what they could have said instead, they could have cut the second sentence talking about how they are part of the solution.
They also could have, at any point since 2017, apologised for what happened under Whedon and accepted some of the blame for allowing it to happen.
 
I have to agree. Look, I support Ray’s cause wholeheartedly, but I dont think attacking Warner Bros for making a statement about racial injustice yesterday should be lambasted. I guess to Ray he feels theyre being hypocritical but what should have WB said then? I guess one could say just dont say anything at all but it was a nice, harmless statement from warner bros showing that there ate people within their organization who are against racial injustice.

Again, I support Ray but I dont know if that was the right way to go about it nor highjacking Andy Muschietti’s Flash announcement. Leave Muschietti and The Flash out of this, let him make his movie and hype it up.

There is this really odd train of thought that the only option for WB is to have either tweeted what they did originally or to have said nothing at all. That's not true and it's why so many companies get away with PR-speak. There's nothing harmless about performative justice. The idea that it is just flies in the face DEI efforts. I personally am on two separate panels for my company designed to prevent them and our clients from doing that very thing.

The truth is that WarnerMedia could have said everything they said and acknowledged the very current allegations of racism that their company is facing. The same racism that Kilar has acknowledged not even a year ago. Something to show that they aren't just trying to bury the allegations and keep it moving. Ya know, just like some basic semblance of awareness and transparency.

And why should Ray leave The Flash out of anything? WB fired him from the project because he complained about Hamada. He has every right in the world to call them out for it and yet all he's doing is asking for an apology.

I get that we all love these IPs, but that's not the end all be all.
 
I have to agree. Look, I support Ray’s cause wholeheartedly, but I dont think attacking Warner Bros for making a statement about racial injustice yesterday should be lambasted. I guess to Ray he feels theyre being hypocritical but what should have WB said then? I guess one could say just dont say anything at all but it was a nice, harmless statement from warner bros showing that there are people within their organization who are against racial injustice.

Again, I support Ray but I dont know if that was the right way to go about it nor highjacking Andy Muschietti’s Flash announcement. Leave Muschietti and The Flash out of this, let him make his movie and hype it up.

We should keep in mind that he tweeted that at Warner Media, not Warner Bros. Then tagged the CEO of Warner Media afterwards. He went after the parent company, not the subsidiary company. I say this because I see people keep bringing up WB when Ray didn't reply to WB but to Warner Media instead.
 
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This you?

Yes this is a post of me taken out of context...would have been nice if you would have used the post i responded to too.
As for context, which you arent interested in, this was in response to a post Mr. E Nygma made that indicated that it has to do with pride and that WB NEEDS to apologize.
To which my response then was what you quoted, the whole post of me was about the whole idea that it is all a pride thing...therefore my question too, why it is not Fisher who swallows his pride when allegedly its not about trivial things.

He's been naming the same names and specifying his issues with leadership for almost a year. You really need him to clarify it still? We're all mature enough to infer who he's talking about and understand that he isn't attacking a company's entire roster of tens of thousands of employees.

He accused people of Racism and more(even if it is directed at Whedon the dirtbag)...so yeah i expect him to state clearly and not fumble around.
Because he created the narrative of being clear and then he constantly makes vague accusations etc.
He was the one who started this all with wanting to change Hollywood as a whole, making his A>E thing something huge...and he has in the past referred to WB as a whole.
And recently he directly spoke about the people he meant, so when he suddenly @ the whole company in a company wide stance...then i assume he means the whole company, because he had no problem before to be very specific in talking about the leadership and so on.

He said he didn't want to work with Hamada because he felt Hamada enabled abuse. WB then let him go under the guise of a resignation. Ray's tweet was not a resignation, which he said himself. But anyone with common sense that has been responsible for staffing could tell you that. And any employer who gives even half a **** about their employees would have formally investigated the claims against Hamada before re-upping his contract and firing Fisher. But WarnerMedia was more interested in moving on from the whole thing, which they made explicitly clear in the trades.

Again, all unproven...are there any documents that support those claims or not?
Because if not then it is a disgruntled ex worker being upset.
Again, all im asking here is just clear proof...and all people come up with is "fisher said".
If this is all so clear, why isnt there to any of this factual proof and just hearsay?

If that is enough for some, then fine...but i dont see why i need to do the same.
I need proof, factual hard proof to be able to come to a conclussion.
I dont want to believe stuff because "someone said it", like i said...i have done so too much in the past and fell on my ass on that front.

Where did he say he'd never work for WB? He said he didn't want to work with Hamada. He then said he'd be willing to see where things go if WB can apologize.

See, alone that shows that A>E isnt as high of a priority for him.
Because if it were, he wouldnt be "willing to see" unless Hamada is gone.
But instead he is willing to see where it goes as long as he can get a forced apology.
That is not what someone does who really wants to make things better for everyone, if he wanted, he wouldnt be willing unless Hamada is gone from his position of power.

Are you that careful though? You've suggested that Snyder manipulated Ray into alleging abuse over the JL reshoots. Zero proof. You've claimed that Ray wants everyone at WB to bow to him. Zero proof. You've said 99% of people at WarnerMedia support diversity. Zero proof. You even alleged a POC may have drafted the tweet about George Floyd. And again, zero proof.

So it seems this need for proof only exists when it isn't you making the claims.

Cant say that i remember stating any of this as fact, i constantly use the words "may, could, probably, might etc" to avoid exactly that.
If i do mess up and say something that sounds like im stating it as fact when its not, then i apologize, happens in the heat of the moment but that doesnt make it okay.
Normally i try to be as careful as possible to not state unproven things as facts.
 
My suggestion to fighting Warner Media is to no longer support anything they release. Take a stand and support Ray in his fight against Warner Media.

Or we can just make tweets/posts and declarations of "Get em Ray" on the internet instead of actually doing something. Just a tip for those who really want to take a stand for something.
 
My suggestion to fighting Warner Media is to no longer support anything they release. Take a stand and support Ray in his fight against Warner Media.

Or we can just make tweets/posts and declarations of "Get em Ray" on the internet instead of actually doing something. Just a tip for those who really want to take a stand for something.

Well that automatically leaves out 99.9% of people on Twitter and Instagram.
 
Yeah, when he did something similar regarding Sasha Calle's announcement/video Andy posted, it rubbed me the wrong way. Here you have an actress who beat out 400+ actresses for the role, was extremely happy to the point of tears and is starring in her first theatrical role just like Ray. It should've been her moment instead of Snyder Cut people in here comments telling her to tell Andy to hire Ray back. Does he plan on doing this with everything Flash related until the movie releases?

Thats what I’m afraid of. At which point its going to look obsessive on Ray’s part. Leave the movie alone, Muschietti has nothing to do with any of this. Its not right to bring in his beef with WB into this.
 
Yes this is a post of me taken out of context...would have been nice if you would have used the post i responded to too.
As for context, which you arent interested in, this was in response to a post Mr. E Nygma made that indicated that it has to do with pride and that WB NEEDS to apologize.
To which my response then was what you quoted, the whole post of me was about the whole idea that it is all a pride thing...therefore my question too, why it is not Fisher who swallows his pride when allegedly its not about trivial things.

So then what is your point? That no one should have to swallow their pride? That everyone involved should stay their respective course? Then why take issue with Ray continuing to do what he's been doing? I mean, I get it if you don't like what he's doing but respect his right to do it. But you have described him as whiny, childish, and self-centered so at this stage, it's hard for me to wrap my head around exactly what you want here.

He accused people of Racism and more(even if it is directed at Whedon the dirtbag)...so yeah i expect him to state clearly and not fumble around.
Because he created the narrative of being clear and then he constantly makes vague accusations etc.
He was the one who started this all with wanting to change Hollywood as a whole, making his A>E thing something huge...and he has in the past referred to WB as a whole.
And recently he directly spoke about the people he meant, so when he suddenly @ the whole company in a company wide stance...then i assume he means the whole company, because he had no problem before to be very specific in talking about the leadership and so on.

I'm not gonna split hairs over shorthand. I'll just agree to disagree.

Again, all unproven...are there any documents that support those claims or not?
Because if not then it is a disgruntled ex worker being upset.
Again, all im asking here is just clear proof...and all people come up with is "fisher said".
If this is all so clear, why isnt there to any of this factual proof and just hearsay?

If that is enough for some, then fine...but i dont see why i need to do the same.
I need proof, factual hard proof to be able to come to a conclussion.
I dont want to believe stuff because "someone said it", like i said...i have done so too much in the past and fell on my ass on that front.

WB formally announced that they were moving on without Ray for The Flash, specifically due to him saying he didn't want to work with Hamada. But Ray had previously made it clear that him saying that was not a resignation. That means he was fired. Denied work at the very least. You keep asking for proof and not what people said, but the proof is literally in what people said. The whole thing played out in plain view via tweets and comments in the trades.

See, alone that shows that A>E isnt as high of a priority for him.
Because if it were, he wouldnt be "willing to see" unless Hamada is gone.
But instead he is willing to see where it goes as long as he can get a forced apology.
That is not what someone does who really wants to make things better for everyone, if he wanted, he wouldnt be willing unless Hamada is gone from his position of power.

Why do you get to decide what form of accountability is enough for someone else? He has never once asked for anyone from WB to be let go from the company. That is a cause you have invented alongside a few other posters here.

Cant say that i remember stating any of this as fact, i constantly use the words "may, could, probably, might etc" to avoid exactly that.
If i do mess up and say something that sounds like im stating it as fact when its not, then i apologize, happens in the heat of the moment but that doesnt make it okay.
Normally i try to be as careful as possible to not state unproven things as facts.

Saying things like "probably" or "might" doesn't mean the burden of proof suddenly exits the room. You're still suggesting that something purely speculative is actually a likelihood. But I respect what you're saying about the heat of the moment. It happens to us all and I'm certainly not innocent of it.
 
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I have to agree. Look, I support Ray’s cause wholeheartedly, but I dont think attacking Warner Bros for making a statement about racial injustice yesterday should be lambasted. I guess to Ray he feels theyre being hypocritical but what should have WB said then? I guess one could say just dont say anything at all but it was a nice, harmless statement from warner bros showing that there are people within their organization who are against racial injustice.

Again, I support Ray but I dont know if that was the right way to go about it nor highjacking Andy Muschietti’s Flash announcement. Leave Muschietti and The Flash out of this, let him make his movie and hype it up.

The thing is, IF there's an issue with some racial insensitivity or lack of cultural awareness among some of the people in leadership positions (not saying there is or isn't, and at the very least there has been the optics of it, and not just because of Ray), then they put themselves in that damned if you do damned if you don't position. So one way to not be in that position is to be less tone deaf, at the very least to the optics of things.
 
Thats what I’m afraid of. At which point its going to look obsessive on Ray’s part. Leave the movie alone, Muschietti has nothing to do with any of this. Its not right to bring in his beef with WB into this.

He doesn't? He's directing the film that Ray was fired from. And he's not addressed any of it. Which is not to say he doesn't want to isn't prevented from doing so, but still there's a really obvious connection there.
 
Yeah I shutter to think how the Floyd case would have resulted without the video. The police report simply said Floyd died of a medical incident with no mention of the physical abuse he suffered. Disgusting.

Yup.

Also, not sure if you saw the videos of the black army lieutenant, in his uniform, who was pulled over and it escalated into something ugly (fortunately no guns fired). Before that video got out (including the dash cam of the driver), the local PD put out a statement that wound up being contradicted by the video evidence (including saying the driver hit the hand of one of the officers, which he clearly did not). What if this wasn't filmed? What if this wasn't an army lieutenant and it didn't gain more attention? How many other times has this happened and we just don't know about it?
 
These things are very tough to call man. I think one side is looking at this whole thing and saying, “Ray stop harrassing people, they conducted the investigation and came up with a result. Plus all the people youre angry at left the company years ago, Joss Whedon has been exiled from Hollywood, the Snyder cut has been released and your awesome performance has been showcased to the world. What more do you want? Lets turn a new leaf and move on.”

Then theres the other side that says, “Investigation or not, Warner Media needs to take responsibility for what happened on JL and the new leadership (Hamada) needs to own up to it, apologize and show clear steps of making amends going forward.” The accountability side. I think both sides have merits.

I think its easy to see Ray tweet or retweet something and be like, “God what does this guy WANT?!” because the truth is we all do want to move on from the JL debacle especially since the SC has been released but it is important to also realize that, assuming Fisher is not a vindictive person, hes doing this from a place of hurt and hes trying to tell people, “things are NOT okay with how Warner Bros is being run and what happened on JL could happen again.”

Idk, just my two cents.
 
So Hamada should put his pride aside, but not Fisher who got pretty much all he wanted?
He got an investigation going, the people in direct charge arent there anymore...but still it is Hamada who should swallow his pride and apologize for unproven accusations?

Why doesn't Fisher swallow his pride and move on?

Sorry for the late reply, "I've been a little busy" (Batfleck quote y'all).

I think, based on the conversation so far, that Fisher has gotten what he wanted out of this as in a personal apology from Berg, Whedon being dumped and Johns not being involved as much creatively.

The big tell here is that if what Fisher was saying is untrue, then Hamada could sue for libel. Hamada and WB haven't done that so it's a slight sign that Fisher is telling the truth. So the impetus is on Hamada to issue some form of an official apology and then we could put this all behind us. That was my intention when I said Hamada had to swallow his pride or deal with bad optics in this situation.
 
Sorry for the late reply, "I've been a little busy" (Batfleck quote y'all).

I think, based on the conversation so far, that Fisher has gotten what he wanted out of this as in a personal apology from Berg, Whedon being dumped and Johns not being involved as much creatively.

The big tell here is that if what Fisher was saying is untrue, then Hamada could sue for libel. Hamada and WB haven't done that so it's a slight sign that Fisher is telling the truth. So the impetus is on Hamada to issue some form of an official apology and then we could put this all behind us. That was my intention when I said Hamada had to swallow his pride or deal with bad optics in this situation.

Thats the other thing, this "Why do they not sue if Fisher is lying"...they simply cant.
Because there is nothing to gain.
They would waste money, it would come to nothing and would be a PR disaster either way.
Look at people already believing any word against WB just because, without proof.
Fisher, that THR claim WB wanted to stop their article etc...all so far unproven claims, yet believed by many.

If Hamada or WB sue him, it is a sign to some that they want to silence him.
He already played that angle and planted that bug.

If they sue, they look guilty, if they stay silent they look guilty.
 
WM 'response'

APSWYyL.jpg
 

They've closed ranks to protect them? Can someone help me out here. What does he mean by that.
 
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WM 'response'

APSWYyL.jpg

Interesting that this claim, which Ray says was *the* straw, never made a return and is nowhere in the THR exposé. There's no doubling down on his part, but no acknowledgement that it could be wrong, either. To my knowledge, and apologies if I'm wrong. But interviewers should ask him about it. Consistency kinda helps, too. Without it, he'll be forever stuck shrugging off the official findings and outrage-baiting to his crowd.
 
But to be fair, a lot of that is what EVERY studio does. It is a rare rare RARE thing where the public actually is privy to the nasty stuff that goes on behind closed doors . Thats why when directors leave a project, its due to “creative differences.” Or, “this director has stepped down” or this person has “exited” the show or movie. WB does it, Disney does it, Universal does it, Fox does it etc. We’re never gonna find out what REALLY happened between Lord and Miller and Disney (although we all can pretty much safely surmise it). Im sure them stepping down wasnt a happy arrangement but all parties agreed to leave it to “creative differences.”

I get where Fisher is coming from but hes gotta realize he is never going to get the studio to outright air their dirty laundry in public. Theyre never gonna say “we fired Joss due to his gross misconduct in 2017.”
 
Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's right.
Fisher isn't going to change Hollywood by himself, but he can help shine a little more light on it, nudge it a little further in the right direction.
A path is formed by laying one stone at a time.
 
Just because it's industry standard doesn't mean it's right.
Fisher isn't going to change Hollywood by himself, but he can help shine a little more light on it, nudge it a little further in the right direction.
A path is formed by laying one stone at a time.
If that's what he wants to do, then there are plenty of organizations and watchdogs out there that do just that in Hollywood. But this sniping of the company and its employees via Twitter is getting old fast. I was never supportive of it during the Release the Snyder Cut and this isn't an exception.

I understand Twitter is a space for fans as well as the aggrieved. But this isn't winning him any points to the large crowd or insiders of the industry--if his goal is to build a coalition of change. He needs to do better and be the bigger person too.
 

Sigh, to be a fly on the wall when Whedon finally got his ego checked on set. I bet she was wearing her outfit too which is a great mental image of Wonder Woman shutting down that *****e.
 

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