Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[emc5466]

Joss Whedon’s reps told Forbes the decision to remove all those characters was made before he was hired.

 

[SupermanFan]

If someone told you I was racist and that I was actively under investigation for being racist, amongst other things, in the workplace but was unable to give specifics until said investigation ended...I would hope you would take it seriously instead of thinking you need to “call them out.”

The reality you seem to want where an unknown actor can handle high profile accusations of wrongful workplace treatment against a major studio quietly simply doesn’t exist.

Of course I’d take it seriously but I’d also need an explanation not just “someone said something racist”.

It’s all alleged until he proves it.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Joss Whedon’s reps told Forbes the decision to remove all those characters was made before he was hired.

I actually believe this... the top brass were determined to slim this movie down to 2 hours and all superfluous characters were removed.

However, Joss seems like he could be vindictive and if Fisher doesn't have concrete evidence, he could be dragged to court on the defensive.

Messy stuff.

 

[Docker2.0]

Ray literally said he needs to wait for the investigation to end and that publicly speaking out is the only thing moving the investigation along.

Folks still in here claiming he needs to stop being vague. Lawd.

They already have their minds made up because it's Johns who wrote many good DC story or Whedon who made the Avengers. Despite many cast members coming out in the past about his behavior, they'd rather name the ones who support him. There have been many people who have spoken out against Whedon's behavior, not as loud as Fischer but they have but people just want to believe that Whedon and Johns are innocent.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

To be fair I don't think there's a ton of denial that Whedon is a jerk. Been in and around Whedon fandom a lot, their relationship with him has always been tumultuous especially since whole serial adulterer thing. The narrative around Fisher isn't that Whedon and Johns are blameless it's that he's overreacting. That he's actively straight up lying is just absurd conspiracy talk.

Not saying I think he's overreacting, mind you, I think the characters being cut is probably a coincidence but the skin colour thing is noooot a good sign and if Johns did indeed directly threaten his career that is almost comically sh***y.

 

[emc5466]

Fisher also failed to note that Willem Dafoe, an obviously well known white actor, was also removed from the theatrical cut. Whedon was under orders to deliver a film that didn’t exceed a 2 hour running time. The bulk of JK Simmons’ scenes were also removed.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I do think its important to remember that Fisher being wrong about some things or reading excessive malicious intent into them does not completely invalidate everything his whole case. When you really, really hate people even with valid cause you tend to start reading their actions as pro-actively malignant no matter what.

 

[emc5466]

Forbes has edited the article and removed the skin color accusation and added a strong statement from Whedon’s reps.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I think out of all of this, accusing Joss of being racist for removing multiple characters of color is probably the laziest of Rays acquisitions. I believe things went down during Joss's shoot but JL was a very straight to it movie where those characters wouldnt even fit.

As for the actor who he wanted recolored? Im trying to think of who it could possibly be....It seems now that we are getting into hearsay territory where Ray is bringing up others allegations which is probably where he'll find the most trouble.

 

[Schlosser85]

I think out of all of this, accusing Joss of being racist for removing multiple characters of color is probably the laziest of Rays acquisitions. I believe things went down during Joss's shoot but JL was a very straight to it movie where those characters wouldnt even fit.

As for the actor who he wanted recolored? Im trying to think of who it could possibly be....It seems now that we are getting into hearsay territory where Ray is bringing up others allegations which is probably where he'll find the most trouble.

Willem Dafoe and most of JK Simmons’ scenes were removed as well, and they’re both white last time I checked. Lots of stuff and characters were cut to streamline the runtime.

 

[kguillou]

So that statement from Whedon’s rep is saying...what exactly? That it was the colorist’s fault for changing the actor’s skin color?

 

[Primal Slayer]

So that statement from Whedon’s rep is saying...what exactly? That it was the colorist’s fault for changing the actor’s skin color?

The statement flatout says that it is false and they then go into greater detail about the recoloring process of the film.

"The individual who offered this statement acknowledged that this was just something that he had heard from someone else and accepted as truth, when in fact simple research would prove that it was false.

And the person who spread this already changed their mind...this is the messy part.

 

[Schlosser85]

So Fisher's whole claim of Whedon changing someone's skin color is basically debunked?

 

[emc5466]

So Fisher's whole claim of Whedon changing someone's skin color is basically debunked?

Yes.

 

[kguillou]

Oh yikes, ok well that is not a good look on Fisher’s part then. He should have fact checked.

 

[heatvision38]

I will say this, there's n0 impression I've gotten from Joss that would lead me to think he is racist. Or Johns. Now, that's not saying they couldn't have some implicit biases and therefore treat a young black actor or actress in a way they wouldn't otherwise a white actor without even realizing they are approaching them differently, but beyond something like that, I'm not so sure. I mean in the more overt kind of way that Fisher seems to be alluding to.

For Joss, he has had numerous black characters as main or important characters in his shows and movies and did not write them as one-dimensional (just a few off the top of my head are the slayer before Faith in Buffy, I forget her name at the moment; Gina Torres who was a prominent character in Firefly/Serenity and who was a main villain in Angel; the actor who played Shep/Sheppard in Firefly; SLJ as Fury, though of course Fury was already a part of the MCU, but Joss did more with him; Harry Lennox in a prominent role in Dollhouse; plus Joss has had quite a few other non-Caucasian characters in prominent roles on these shows).

For Johns, he's a big Cyborg fan and I think he's a John Steward fan as well (perhaps not over Hal, but c'mon, it's Hal freaking Jordan). He wr0te the new Rorschach as a black character and made him one of the hearts of the Doomsday Clock story.

Now, I'm not saying having non-white characters in your writing and in your movies and tv shows automatically means you can't be racist. I wouldn't go that far as there has been criticism leveled at Joss for being sexist despite how much strong women are the center of his works. I can see Joss and Johns being reputed for being jerks who may have taken advantage of their power, sure, but the racism comments from Fisher surprised me. For now, as with all of this, I will wait to see what comes of it. As I've said before, Fisher has always struck me as a thoughtful, deliberate man who isn't prone to letting his emotions lead him. But this is the first time I was surprised by what he shared.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Pennywise]

Joss Whedon Spokesperson Calls Some Of Ray Fisher's Justice League Accusations 'False'

UPDATE: Ray Fisher has sent CinemaBlend a reply to the statement's provided by Joss Whedon's spokespeople. He said, "This is only a hair’s breadth away from Berg’s, 'Fisher was upset about booyah' defense. I’ve been trying my best to make sure that Joss Whedon and Jon Berg aren’t able to be thrown completely under the bus by the other guys. But when they make these half baked knee-jerk excuses publicly, they make my job a lot harder. I’m settling in with my family for the night. I’ll have a more in-depth response tomorrow.”

 

[kguillou]

Hoo boy.

 

[Da-Scribe]

It’s getting wild.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Woof, this is going to be so messy.

 

[TheGuy]

Eek. So glad I've stayed away from commenting on recent updates.

 

[emc5466]

This is a circus. What a tremendous decision it was for AT&T to acquire WB for $85b!

 

[SwordOfMorning]

This is a circus. What a tremendous decision it was for AT&T to acquire WB for $85b!

I really don't think anyone outside of people deeply invested in Justice League are particularly aware of or interested in any of this. DC Fandom has an increasingly bad case of tunnel vision.

 

[Frodo]

At this point, I've got to see all cards on the table to make heads or tales of any of this stuff.

Otherwise its just all noise and a constant back and forth between the two sides, from the perspective of someone on the outside looking in.