Reasons for the disappointing numbers-Discussion

[Spade]

If Fox would have introduced Galactus with the sort of presence Optimus Prime had this film would have had more enticement to go by. Instead, it expected us to fear a cloud.

Scrap metal Megatron >>> Galacloud.

 

[Erzengel]

A "menacing" cloud.

 

[Memphis Slim]

If Fox would have introduced Galactus with the sort of presence Optimus Prime had this film would have had more enticement to go by. Instead, it expected us to fear a cloud.

Scrap metal Megatron >>> Galacloud.

Yep....

 

[Joe Rockhead]

War of the Worlds

KING KONG

THE TRANSFORMERS

Yeah.........menacing giant things don't work on screen.........

Where's the menacing giant humans?

 

[LostSon88]

Better word of mouth really could've helped this movie...

A story with more substance would'nt have hurt either.

 

[Erzengel]

I'll be honest, I wanted to like this movie, however I had very low expectations for it. Maybe cause of the first one or because of the state of comic book movies today.

I think I would have even given this a 6 even if there was a brief glimpse of of Galactus.

 

[Spade]

That's why it shouldn't have been brief at all. They should have given a healthy alloted time to this filim and made the final act something you talk about when you leave the theater. If they didn't have faith in this film or at least allow the material to realize itself, it perplexes me as to why they would bother pumping millions and millions of dollars into a project like this.

 

[Erzengel]

It's like they were trying to pass off something that was average and not trying to think bigger than that. "We're looking to make about $200 domestic, what's the bare minimum we can do to achieve this?"

 

[Spade]

I don't know...I'm starting to heavily agree with the people saying this is all on FOX. Story doesn't seem like a horrible director if a bone is thrown his way- I'm not saying I want him directing the films, just that he has the potential to do good movies. Same could be said for Payne- his script was alot more solid than the F-worthy Frost screenplay of the first film. The director and writer for this film don't seem to be the issue. Heck, even Alba was much less annoying when she wasn't given uber-witch dialogue. The only thing that's consistent is Rothman's ability to say what he wants and doesn't want in the movie pitch discussions, and his ability to spread misinformation in order to save the final product.

If Die Hard 4 was great enough at PG-13, how much better could it have been with an R-rated theatrical release? Something's rotten, and it isn't the material.

 

[LostSon88]

FOX are screwing THEMSELVES out of more money...

Can't they see that?!?!

 

[Spade]

They're more easily assured of cash by appealing to audiences with low-brow movies. The issue for us with that approach is that by doing so they produce movies that don't reflect the property, but the benefit for them is that they don't have to pump an adequate budget into the project and still make profit along the way. Their fear seems to be in making a big-budget movie that might tank. The irony is that we can all see retrospectively that they're avoiding a big cash flow by making mediocre films that don't stand the test of time.

In the end, like a movie itself, the direction is inadequate at Twentieth Century Fox. I truly fear for AVP2.

 

[Sardaukar]

Galactus in Ancient Greece?!?!??!

Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOB8qfQgEk

 

[Spade]

Oh yeah, those Greeks weren't running from anything dangerous at all. And with cosmic powers? Galactus would definitely be laughed at. Great job FOX!

 

[highguard]

FOX are screwing THEMSELVES out of more money...

Can't they see that?!?!

NO.

 

[Malus]

I don't know...I'm starting to heavily agree with the people saying this is all on FOX. Story doesn't seem like a horrible director if a bone is thrown his way- I'm not saying I want him directing the films, just that he has the potential to do good movies. Same could be said for Payne- his script was alot more solid than the F-worthy Frost screenplay of the first film. The director and writer for this film don't seem to be the issue. Heck, even Alba was much less annoying when she wasn't given uber-witch dialogue. The only thing that's consistent is Rothman's ability to say what he wants and doesn't want in the movie pitch discussions, and his ability to spread misinformation in order to save the final product.

Exactly.
The script was excellent, especially considering all the nonsense that was pre-determined by Fox. And Story may have had more freedom, but apparently not enough. (Everyone can say and think what they want about Story, but before he came to Fox, he was critically acclaimed.)
As I watched scenes like Ben & Johnny in the bar (the darts scene) and the General debriefing the FF in the nightclub's kitchen, I had no complaint whatsoever with the job Story did.
It was only when the film needed to make the all-important leap to spectacle that things fell terribly short for me: The FF battling Doom above China -which was too damn dark- or the pedestrian final battle scene in Shanghai, which felt as abbreviated and watered down as the first film...and that head-shaking running time. Jeez.
It is my strong gut feeling that most of the blame for these shortcomings (as with other Fox superhero films) can be laid right on Rothman and the other talentless, cheap-ass suits at Fox.
You can't ask for better source material for an action tour-de-force than Fantastic Four. The first 100 issues is considered by many comics fans to be the gold standard for superhero adventure. Yet the films struggle to convey anything close to the spectacle and fun the Lee/Kirby material exudes in its sleep. Instead everything has that "reduced-in-spectacle-to-fit-your-tv" feel.
I enjoyed X2 somewhat, but Fox has yet to deliver a superhero film that comes even close to capturing the spirit of the comics they're based on.
No Spider-man 2s, No Batman Begins, No Superman IIs.
Nothing close.

Hell yeah, it's Fox.
A pox on their freakin' house.

 

[Wolfwood]

I don't "lack of action" is a valid problem. Look at Spider-Man 2. It was a smash hit, but it actually LESS ACTION than this movie did. Bank robbery, and then the train fight/final battle back-to-back sequences. FF2, in comparison, just has more and longer sequences by sheer numbers.

Then we should say lack of quality in action. I haven't seen Spider-Man 2 in a year, yet I can still recall the train/building sequences quite well. Some of the best action in any superhero movie. I saw FF2 yesterday and even though it was cool seeing Johnny use all the powers at once, the one thing that sticks out in my mind is Doom getting hit by a crane.

The reasons for failure, as I see it:

1) Star Wars scope with romantic comedy pattern;

2) Awful direction;

3) Bad script (full of plotholes);

4) Weak or nonsense villains (Doom was DINO again, and let's not get started on Gah-LaK-Tus, the Cloud);

5) Fake and horrible make up (Alba looks weird with those lenses, super sun tan and doll wig);

6) Silly jokes all over it;

7) Really dull start with all that loose yadda yadda about marriage; and "that's it?" kind of ending with that fake "battle" between Surfer and...you know, the cloud.

8) Bad acting. Alba was terrible this time and McMahon, disgraceful;

9) Bad hype among the fan base: if a movie of this particular genre wants to establish a decent franchise, first thing is to please the faithful readers of the original material. The first FF almost ruined it, and this one, I believe, did it (Story's lies, confusing and deceptive interviews, final bad result);

10) The movie needed an intelligence behind the cameras that could manage to match a visionary transposition of the FF (like Peter Jackson with the LOTR trilogy) and that captivating spirit that made FF one of the best comic books ever (even in terms of money).

Man, you just hit the nail on the head for me. This isn't a one issue problem, there were so many things working against this movie, it was doomed from the beginning.

 

[wobbly]

Galactus in Ancient Greece?!?!??!

Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOB8qfQgEk

Ah, 'Jason and the Argonauts'.
Even with the limitations on FX in those days they still embraced damn near every spectacle they could from the myth (that time could allow for..it's a long story after all) and that film's considered a classic (they even had a giant Poseidon holding two cliffs apart while the Argo sailed past as I recall).

Sadly, neither FF film will ever be regarded as classics and we can largely pin that on Fox not embracing the source material for all it's worth.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It's like they were trying to pass off something that was average and not trying to think bigger than that. "We're looking to make about $200 domestic, what's the bare minimum we can do to achieve this?"

It is Fox, they probably did do exactly just that.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Where's the menacing giant humans?

MIA because Fox, Story, and the writers didn't include him.

 

[jrd550]

well I don't see the film as a complete failure. the first one made a lot of money but sucked. this one made less but was slightly better. maybe a third will be both good and make money?

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

I would think that would be a huge embarissment if the second film does not make more than the first.This is why i am doubting a FF3 will be made.

 

[huzzah]

Ah, 'Jason and the Argonauts'.
Even with the limitations on FX in those days they still embraced damn near every spectacle they could from the myth (that time could allow for..it's a long story after all) and that film's considered a classic (they even had a giant Poseidon holding two cliffs apart while the Argo sailed past as I recall).

Sadly, neither FF film will ever be regarded as classics and we can largely pin that on Fox not embracing the source material for all it's worth.

Even as kid when I saw Talos I knew it was just some kind of animated puppet etc, but it was his presence on screen that has me hooked even to this day.

A pillar of fire that looks like Galactus is does not convince me he's the most dangerous being in the Universe.

 

[Tony Stark]

There are probably a number of factors here, but clearly this is an industry problem. A 70% drop on Wednesday for Transformers, and people were thinking this might have a chance at 400 million. no way now, and it will be lucky after this weekend, which will sure to be a 60% drop.

Yes by the percentages FF has had the biggest drops of all the films, then again it started out with a smaller piece of the pie.

Add a horrible promotion of the film with a tepid market, with lots of competition and you get a film that will probably finish with 130 or so domestically, the same amount as the budget.

 

[Sardaukar]

Add a horrible promotion of the film with a tepid market, with lots of competition and you get a film that will probably finish with 130 or so domestically, the same amount as the budget.

I don't see how the promotion itself was bad though. The trailers and commercials were well done...you had the cool Surfer statue in the theaters...I wasn't impressed with the posters, but that shouldn't be a deal breaker...

 

[Kelly]

I don't see how the promotion itself was bad though. The trailers and commercials were well done...you had the cool Surfer statue in the theaters...I wasn't impressed with the posters, but that shouldn't be a deal breaker...

I was disappointed in that they actually did very little with BK, absolutely nothing as far as figures and toys.....as far as the TV spots, and Trailers, those were fine....but to almost totally drop the TV spots once it came out.....very low IMO....they had a #1 movie and actually had some good tag lines from reviewers this time around.....and they did nothing after it opened.....it was like.....oh well....we know we are going to get killed by these other movies, we don't respect this franchise, so we won't put anymore money into it.......whatever...