Reboot: Character Portrayal

[SuperFerret]

i'd like to see him get angry on a villain like darkseid and give a speech similar to the one he gave darksied in JLU. Then beat the villain be it zod, darkseid, etc. (someone that can take it) using his full or near full power because he has to to ensure the whole planets safety even if it means some callateral damage.

Superman should never see collateral damage as something necessary.

I think making the threat darker would work...

Superman trying to sort out the problem with a "soft" approach failing...

A doomsdaylike creature destroying a building/school/hospital.. Superman arriving and landing amongst the dead and dying and finally realising that there are times when even a hero has to go that extra mile to get the job done...

What "soft" approach? What "extra mile"? You want Superman to start killing?

 

[GreenKToo]

Just what is he supposed to do if he were in a struggle with a villain like Darkseid?
Mind you A villain that he couldnt just fling into the sun or trick into following him into space. Ask him nicely to stop fighting so innocents wont get injured or killed?

I mean i'm sure Superman would do everything in his power to prevent innocent injuries and death, but in a situation like that, it would be impossible for even Superman to prevent some from happening.

 

[Sub-Zero]

the darkness should only come from the villain...imo. the more threatening the villain the more superman will have to do to stop him/her/it. iron man had a decent tone where there was death but it wasn't overplayed, that's the kind of tone superman should have: fun, but also serious.

 

[Adenjo]

What "soft" approach? What "extra mile"? You want Superman to start killing?

Soft approach.. Earlier in a battle Superman grabs (i'll use Doomsday as an example) throws him around a lot, picks up trucks and cranes and tries to pin him down.

After Doomsday destroys the school/hospital/whatever and leaves Superman amongst the dead we see Superman realising that he has to go further in order to stop the threat.. From this point on we see Superman using almost godlike power on the monster.. Punching him halfway through a mountain.. beating him to the point of death but never actually killing him.

 

[what_19]

Soft approach.. Earlier in a battle Superman grabs (i'll use Doomsday as an example) throws him around a lot, picks up trucks and cranes and tries to pin him down.

After Doomsday destroys the school/hospital/whatever and leaves Superman amongst the dead we see Superman realising that he has to go further in order to stop the threat.. From this point on we see Superman using almost godlike power on the monster.. Punching him halfway through a mountain.. beating him to the point of death but never actually killing him.

well said

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Just what is he supposed to do if he were in a struggle with a villain like Darkseid?
Mind you A villain that he couldnt just fling into the sun or trick into following him into space. Ask him nicely to stop fighting so innocents wont get injured or killed?

I mean i'm sure Superman would do everything in his power to prevent innocent injuries and death, but in a situation like that, it would be impossible for even Superman to prevent some from happening.

That would actually be good, probably. Then we'd get to see how much the death of those he couldn't save weighed on him.

Soft approach.. Earlier in a battle Superman grabs (i'll use Doomsday as an example) throws him around a lot, picks up trucks and cranes and tries to pin him down.

After Doomsday destroys the school/hospital/whatever and leaves Superman amongst the dead we see Superman realising that he has to go further in order to stop the threat.. From this point on we see Superman using almost godlike power on the monster.. Punching him halfway through a mountain.. beating him to the point of death but never actually killing him.

Exactly.. that'd be perfect.

 

[SuperFerret]

Soft approach.. Earlier in a battle Superman grabs (i'll use Doomsday as an example) throws him around a lot, picks up trucks and cranes and tries to pin him down.

After Doomsday destroys the school/hospital/whatever and leaves Superman amongst the dead we see Superman realising that he has to go further in order to stop the threat.. From this point on we see Superman using almost godlike power on the monster.. Punching him halfway through a mountain.. beating him to the point of death but never actually killing him.

As what_19 said, that was very well said. I can see that happening in a movie, and it's pretty much how it happened in the comics, although Clark did say that he "may have to kill" Doomsday (I'm paraphrasing, as I don't have the book with me), and while Doomsday died at the end with Superman, I think it was still more of an accidental killing. Even though both got better.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

With something like Doomsday, Clark should be excused even if he had set out to kill him from the start. There's just no other way to stop something like that.

 

[NeoRanger]

Even though both got better.

Ah, Ma's chicken soup's good for everything.

With something like Doomsday, Clark should be excused even if he had set out to kill him from the start. There's just no other way to stop something like that.

That would be out of character. Even if he does end up killing him, it most certainly can't be the plan from the start. Idealism, in works of fiction anyway, doesn't have to succumb to the grim reality; not if the character doesn't call for it.

 

[NeoRanger]

/GAH, double-post

 

[Sawyer]

Yeah, I dont think Supes should set out to kill him from the start, but along the way, he's gonna need to realize that there is no other way to stop him.

 

[BestGirl]

Yeah, I dont think Supes should set out to kill him from the start, but along the way, he's gonna need to realize that there is no other way to stop him.

That's a nice idea. I'd like to see Superman wrestle with his conscience in regards to what to do with Doomsday. Can he really kill? If he does, how does he feel about what he did?

 

[Nightwing1977]

Yeah, I dont think Supes should set out to kill him from the start, but along the way, he's gonna need to realize that there is no other way to stop him.

Yep. Kinda remind me when he was force to kill 3 Phantom Zone villians, since they kill billions on the alternative Earth & they plan to do the same to the same Earth Supes live. He didn't want to kill them, but he has no choice.

 

[NeoRanger]

^^ Actually that's one of the least likeable moments in Post-Crisis history; Superman would probably wait until it came to a head, before he did anything so drastic and so against his core beliefs.

But hey, it gave an answer to RachelDawes' question; if he does kill, he'll be traumatized, develop a split personality, exile himself to space to deal and come back to be prey to any villain with mind-controlling abilities, who will use the trauma to make him beat Batman to a pulp.

It's really not as complicated as it sounds.

 

[BestGirl]

He didn't want to kill them, but he has no choice.

I think we can all agree that Superman shouldn't kill unless he has to.

^^ Actually that's one of the least likeable moments in Post-Crisis history; Superman would probably wait until it came to a head, before he did anything so drastic and so against his core beliefs.

But hey, it gave an answer to RachelDawes' question; if he does kill, he'll be traumatized, develop a split personality, exile himself to space to deal and come back to be prey to any villain with mind-controlling abilities, who will use the trauma to make him beat Batman to a pulp.

It's really not as complicated as it sounds.

Perhaps Supes shouldn't kill anyone in the next movie then.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I dunno if I'd want to see him kill anyone in a movie. Maybe lose his temper and attack in a rage, but then he sees the reactions of the citizens and quickly comes to his senses. That alone would trouble him quite a bit.

 

[BestGirl]

I dunno if I'd want to see him kill anyone in a movie. Maybe lose his temper and attack in a rage, but then he sees the reactions of the citizens and quickly comes to his senses. That alone would trouble him quite a bit.

Yeah, having Supes go the brink and then just pull back would be a safer way to explore his dark side. He could still wrestle with his conscience that way while remaining a beacon of hope and goodness.

 

[Adenjo]

Yeah, having Supes go the brink and then just pull back would be a safer way to explore his dark side. He could still wrestle with his conscience that way while remaining a beacon of hope and goodness.

yeah.
Superman knowing that he could kill would create some pretty decent drama..
Not to mention the fact that if the people saw how close Superman came to killing, how lost he was within his own rage they could develope an amount of fear which in turn could lead us into one hell of a sequel with Superman having to regain the trust of the people.
Add into the mix a Lex Luthor who knows how to twist the media... I'm sort of running away with this idea sorry

 

[kalelkilla]

yeah.
Superman knowing that he could kill would create some pretty decent drama..
Not to mention the fact that if the people saw how close Superman came to killing, how lost he was within his own rage they could develope an amount of fear which in turn could lead us into one hell of a sequel with Superman having to regain the trust of the people.
Add into the mix a Lex Luthor who knows how to twist the media... I'm sort of running away with this idea sorry

Agreed. That is the best way to treat the "no-killing" problem with Superman. The Nolans treated the same notion in TDK; if Batman kills the Joker, then the Joker "wins" the war for Gotham's soul. Superman can never kill a villain but he should be able to come pretty darn close without becoming like the monsters he defends us from. Superman leads by example and he can maybe convert a lot of bad people to do good or become good people if at the last possible moment Superman forgives the villain, showing tremendous compassion (after pummeling the villain to a pulp of course). This could inspire people. Although Superman might not want to forgive and he might want to indeed kill the villain, he doesn't because he knows people look to him to be an example. Much like how Batman becomes the 'villain' at the end TDK. He doesn't WANT to be the villain but he knows it's best for the city of Gotham. Superman could WANT to kill the villain but doesn't to inspire people. You can bring Superman to very dark places, it is not very hard, without his character being dark...there is a difference. But I too would like to see a more dark and brooding Superman movie.

 

[Ultraman Nexus]

Dark Brooding Superman=TOTAL ****ING POINT-MISSING!

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Agreed. That is the best way to treat the "no-killing" problem with Superman. The Nolans treated the same notion in TDK; if Batman kills the Joker, then the Joker "wins" the war for Gotham's soul. Superman can never kill a villain but he should be able to come pretty darn close without becoming like the monsters he defends us from. Superman leads by example and he can maybe convert a lot of bad people to do good or become good people if at the last possible moment Superman forgives the villain, showing tremendous compassion (after pummeling the villain to a pulp of course). This could inspire people. Although Superman might not want to forgive and he might want to indeed kill the villain, he doesn't because he knows people look to him to be an example. Much like how Batman becomes the 'villain' at the end TDK. He doesn't WANT to be the villain but he knows it's best for the city of Gotham. Superman could WANT to kill the villain but doesn't to inspire people. You can bring Superman to very dark places, it is not very hard, without his character being dark...there is a difference. But I too would like to see a more dark and brooding Superman movie.

Makes me think of Goku giving Frieza a second chance to live and walk away, totally trusting him, then being betrayed when Frieza makes a last ditch attempt to take him out. Something like that would be pretty sweet.

 

[BestGirl]

Agreed. That is the best way to treat the "no-killing" problem with Superman. The Nolans treated the same notion in TDK; if Batman kills the Joker, then the Joker "wins" the war for Gotham's soul. Superman can never kill a villain but he should be able to come pretty darn close without becoming like the monsters he defends us from. Superman leads by example and he can maybe convert a lot of bad people to do good or become good people if at the last possible moment Superman forgives the villain, showing tremendous compassion (after pummeling the villain to a pulp of course). This could inspire people. Although Superman might not want to forgive and he might want to indeed kill the villain, he doesn't because he knows people look to him to be an example. Much like how Batman becomes the 'villain' at the end TDK. He doesn't WANT to be the villain but he knows it's best for the city of Gotham. Superman could WANT to kill the villain but doesn't to inspire people. You can bring Superman to very dark places, it is not very hard, without his character being dark...there is a difference. But I too would like to see a more dark and brooding Superman movie.

It depends on who Superman's forgiving. It wouldn't be smart, or even particularly moral, to forgive an alien who tried to blow up the earth and caused thousands of deaths and millions of dollars of property damage in the process.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Batman is vengeance, Superman is Hope. They are two very different things. Superman should not be dark just to appeal to the obsessive trend of grim'n'gritty, he should be inspiring. He should be the one person that everyone can count on, the one whocan be troubled, will never let angeror tragedy take over him like Batman or other superheroes. He is supposed to represent the kind of good ideal humanity strives fro, yet can't quite reach. He's Superman, and personally having him be dark and brooding and contemplating killing not what he's about.

 

[Sub-Zero]

Batman is vengeance, Superman is Hope. They are two very different things. Superman should not be dark just to appeal to the obsessive trend of grim'n'gritty, he should be inspiring. He should be the one person that everyone can count on, the one whocan be troubled, will never let angeror tragedy take over him like Batman or other superheroes. He is supposed to represent the kind of good ideal humanity strives fro, yet can't quite reach. He's Superman, and personally having him be dark and brooding and contemplating killing not what he's about.

agreed. each dc comic hero has that one descriptive drive that makes him/her do what they do. superman's isn't dark. superman is about hope and how an alien is trying to show humanity how to become more human. i guess you can call it idealistic irony.

the villains can be dark as hell, but superman cannot. the only villain he should even think about killing to save lives would be darkseid, but superman would never kill.

 

[Frodo]

To me Superman is an idealist. Believes he can change and unite the world but more then that humanity. I think if anything the problem the recent Superman films have had is that they put emphasis on the Super aspect as opposed to the Man aspect. I think the more interesting story is how someone with these abilities and asperations really deals with theme and functions. He has his responsibilities to the world but he also has responsibilities to his friends and relationships. At the same time has the weight of the heritage on his shoulders to which is alien , to him pardon the pun. How does someone really deal with all these things. How is he able to keeping lying to Lois without it really eating away at him? What gives him the right to take on the mantle of global leader? It's stuff like that that's far more interesting to me then seeing yet another brooding hero.