Reed and Sue don't get married

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's weird because I see it directly opposite.

I see them as a family first, with all the dynamics and problems of being a family...AND they are a superhero group as well and those things collide sometimes. IMO, that is what makes them different from all of the other superheros out there....the family dynamic is key. I think "The Incredibles" did an excellent job of melting the two together. I actually felt they were more of a family than the F4 movies.

My problem with the first and second movie was because...they didn't feel like a family.....at all, and that was my biggest gripe. Hell, they didn't even act like they liked each other. They had much more chemistry off screen than on.

I think there may be a number of ideas being co-mingled here. In terms of priorities, they are a family first. It is clearly who they are, and it's vital that concept is maintained.

That being said, what do we want to see in those precious 90 minutes? I want to know they're a family and that those things are important, but the primary conflict shouldn't come from their family issues. The primary conflict that keeps the viewer on the edge of his/her seat wondering what will happen next should be the potentially dire events of a well-crafted plot - not Reed and Sue's china pattern.

I think the incredibles is a good example because I do think that Brad Bird did a better job of balancing the broader story with the conflicts within the family than either FF film did. You and I are probably not that far off with our thinking, but the semantics may be confusing.

Any film or book is a slice of life of the characters involved. The writer needs to think about what slice they give their audience. If we wanted to make an entertaining film about Richard Nixon, would we focus on his time at Duke Law School, or would we want to look at his vice-presidency, his 1968 campaign for president, his work with China, Watergate, his fall from grace, etc.?

I'm sure that his time at law school was very important to him and helped to mold who he was, but (unless the film-maker was very talented) it likely wouldn't be the most interesting story we could tell about him. And even if we decide we're going to focus on Watergate, we need to decide what elements are critical and need to be specifically shown and what elements are there - beneath the surface - but only suggested or hinted at. I believe that Tim Story spent far too much screen time showing us things about the character's personal conflicts that could have been accomplished with a brief glance or nod and been not only effective, but in some cases more effective than what we saw.

And the source material - the comic books - clearly follow that principle. We know these characters because over 40 years their characters were well developed with pieces here and pieces there. But 80% of any FF comic book you pick up will be focused on a major story - not the individual conflicts (though those individual conflicts are always there affecting the broader story).

I can tell you that if I had picked up an FF comic book as a 5 year old boy and found that 80% of it was devoted to 'family problems and conflicts' . . . I probably wouldn't have picked up another, and I wouldn't be here now.

 

[Kelly]

It has to be longer than an LMN movie....you cannot build the family aspects as well as the adventurer aspects in a 90 minute movie. It's just not going to happen. BUT, I do believe that a simple scene here and there AND BETTER WRITING will accomplish what I would like to see.

Sue is the key to the family aspects....

Sue needs to be able to look at Johnny and his antics with YES, a bit of annoyance, but in it, a true love for him. I did not see that in the first 2 movies.

I would like to see a scene between Ben and Sue where she is the comforting friend, and he is the over protective big brother type. NOT a scene like in the first movie where they both just ended up whining...

I would also like to see a couple of scenes between Sue and Reed where they TRULY show affection for each other. The scene where Sue dies and Reed is holding her was very well done....they do love each other, but that was truly the only time in either movie that we saw it. "I'm so hot for you right now" just does not cut it. WTF was that line anyway????

As far as the adventures, action, etc... I'm fine with whatever villain they choose....etc.

I just really want to see what makes them different from all other superheros out there.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would also like to see a couple of scenes between Sue and Reed where they TRULY show affection for each other. The scene where Sue dies and Reed is holding her was very well done....they do love each other, but that was truly the only time in either movie that we saw it. "I'm so hot for you right now" just does not cut it. WTF was that line anyway????

Their 'romance' was really terribly handled in both movies. It was more like an infatuation between two 16 year olds than a romance between adults. Reed always seemed more scared of her than in love with her, and she always seemed to have a chip on her shoulder and was borderline abusive - "You love me, huh? Well you damn well better prove it and stop being the idiot that we both know you are."

You'll have a hard time convincing me the next film needs to be a romance as opposed to a Science-Fiction / Fantasy film with some romance thrown in, but better romance and better chemistry are essential to making that element of the story work.

And I think where you and I may diverge is that I feel that we don't need to spend a lot of time on the romance as long as the chemistry is there. With the right chemistry, we'll see their love for one another and there won't need to be a lot of screen time and narration required to show us it's there.

 

[Kelly]

Their 'romance' was really terribly handled in both movies. It was more like an infatuation between two 16 year olds than a romance between adults. Reed always seemed more scared of her than in love with her, and she always seemed to have a chip on her shoulder and was borderline abusive - "You love me, huh? Well you damn well better prove it and stop being the idiot that we both know you are."

You'll have a hard time convincing me the next film needs to be a romance as opposed to a Science-Fiction / Fantasy film with some romance thrown in, but better romance and better chemistry are essential to making that element of the story work.

And I think where you and I may diverge is that I feel that we don't need to spend a lot of time on the romance as long as the chemistry is there. With the right chemistry, we'll see their love for one another and there won't need to be a lot of screen time and narration required to show us it's there.

Did ya read my whole post?

Liiiiike this part????

It's just not going to happen. BUT, I do believe that a simple scene here and there AND BETTER WRITING will accomplish what I would like to see.

heeeeellllooooo.....I'm the one wanting the Malice storyline remember???????

 

[Quasimod0]

I think they should get married. Thats a big moment for them in the comic. And since they are the first family, it just makes sense. For them to not be married and yet have a kid and whatnot, makes it seem a little bit like less of a really close loving family.

 

[Human Torch]

Two words:

Superman Returns


(shudder)

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Two words:

Superman Returns


(shudder)

Ummm... you definitely lost me.


Sex out of wedlock is what ruined that movie?

 

[Kelly]

Ummm... you definitely lost me.


Sex out of wedlock is what ruined that movie?

No, they went with a more relationship type movie than action movie....I guess.

 

[Hypestyle]

don't overstress the romance. they don't need to get married yet. have them date other folks early on.

 

[Kelly]

don't overstress the romance. they don't need to get married yet. have them date other folks early on.

ThAt would mean going back to the beginning...

I would rather they move on from the last film.

 

[metaphysician]

Its also conflating two separate ideas: that they don't need to be married, and that they should date other people. Its entirely possible for them to be not married ( yet? ) and also not dating anyone else. In fact, how about lets do something original: since the movie is supposed to be an adventure, and not a romance, lets just have Reed and Sue in a committed relationship, and leave it at that?

 

[bubbadoom]

ThAt would mean going back to the beginning...

I would rather they move on from the last film.

If the FF stays at Fox, then I agree.

The only point of them not being married in a "reboot" would be for the triangle between Reed/Sue/Namor and since Marvel owns Namor that is NOT going to happen.

Likewise, why redo the wedding if you can not guest star the Marvel Universe like in Annual #3? A few X-Men on hand is not going to cut it.

So, since we've been there and done that - let's just move forward.

 

[psylockolussus]

Save the marriage for the third movie!

 

[bubbadoom]

They should be married, and have their super powers, at the start of the movie...

 

[Duran Man]

Married at the start of the film seems good to me.

 

[Casius--J]

Personally I would rather them be married from the beginning of the film. We already had a proposal and wedding in the previous movies so I think we can move on from this.

Also I don't see the need in changing their relationship just for the sake of changing it. I'm 29 so my knowledge of the FF started in the late 80's and by then Reed and Sue had been married and that's how I've grown up knowing them; as husband and wife.

 

[fantastic fifth]

I think this will depend some on the age of the casting....

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Its also conflating two separate ideas: that they don't need to be married, and that they should date other people. Its entirely possible for them to be not married ( yet? ) and also not dating anyone else. In fact, how about lets do something original: since the movie is supposed to be an adventure, and not a romance, lets just have Reed and Sue in a committed relationship, and leave it at that?

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Kelly]

Its also conflating two separate ideas: that they don't need to be married, and that they should date other people. Its entirely possible for them to be not married ( yet? ) and also not dating anyone else. In fact, how about lets do something original: since the movie is supposed to be an adventure, and not a romance, lets just have Reed and Sue in a committed relationship, and leave it at that?

It has both of those concepts as a part of the base of the Fantastic Four.

Family
Adventure
Love Story
Identity Crisis

it isn't "just an adventure" by a long shot...that is what makes it so different from other comic books.

 

[metaphysician]

All the more reason to *not* randomly decide to make both Reed and Sue into a pair of swinging singles.