Retrospective: The DCEU: The Good, The Bad, The Divisive

But see thats all easy said than done. So you commented on my post that its "easy to relaunch/reboot Aquaman, Wonder woman, Flash" and then admitting you didn't even factor if it would be successful? Because launching / being successful are two different things... well duh. You have said that earlier. Now which producer/studio would have that mind set aside from you?

I'd like to see run over Dcu instead of James Gunn. Thinking its easy to launch, but nevermind if it would be successful....

:skeptical:

At least with your plan, I won't need to wait longer for a new version of Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Flash. Nevermind all the factors that go into movie making.

Noone knows if Gunns movies will be successful. No one can plan a box office hit.

I stand by every word i said. It is easy to relaunch all of those heroes in a 5 year span. You certainly haven't proven me wrong with Spider-Man having 3 different franchises within 10 years. Superman doing the same. Batman doing the same.

The issue is good films and DCEU lacked those for the most part. You brought up Black Adam and we saw how 10 years of development did NOTHING for it. So whats your excuse for that

So yeah, hire me and im sure i can put out some good DC films. I already have a team that id put together to get it started.

Somehow in your world it takes 10 years for a dc film to come together but MCU can do 20 films in that time. Somehow it's not an issue that Gunn is getting Superman up and running within a year of being hired and filming already set for next year.
 
Noone knows if Gunns movies will be successful. No one can plan a box office hit.

I stand by every word i said. It is easy to relaunch all of those heroes in a 5 year span. You certainly haven't proven me wrong with Spider-Man having 3 different franchises within 10 years. Superman doing the same. Batman doing the same.

The issue is good films and DCEU lacked those for the most part. You brought up Black Adam and we saw how 10 years of development did NOTHING for it. So whats your excuse for that

So yeah, hire me and im sure i can put out some good DC films. I already have a team that id put together to get it started.
Yeah I would hire you but I'm not the one with hundreds of millions and would thinking recasting/rebooting everybody would be such an easy thing to do.

The Flash currently bombing is a big factor and I honestly doubt, it would be that easy to convince everyone to just relaunch The Flash with his own film in more or less five years fromnow ... its not that simple. Also, replacing Jason/Gal with newer actors is easier said than done.

This isn't the comics, in which its easy to start from scratch.

Also, Black Adam... you can go back to my previous posts and see that I was against withat movie being made...
 
Yeah I would hire you but I'm not the one with hundreds of millions and would thinking recasting/rebooting everybody would be such an easy thing to do.

The Flash currently bombing is a big factor and I honestly doubt, it would be that easy to convince everyone to just relaunch The Flash with his own film in more or less five years fromnow ... its not that simple. Also, replacing Jason/Gal with newer actors is easier said than done.

This isn't the comics, in which its easy to start from scratch.

Also, Black Adam... you can go back to my previous posts and see that I was against withat movie being made...

If we can have millions of Supermans, Batmans, Spider-Mans, we can have a 3rd WW and 2nd Aquaman lol.

I love Gal (obvy) but she isn't the end all be all for the character.
 
If we can have millions of Supermans, Batmans, Spider-Mans, we can have a 3rd WW and 2nd Aquaman lol.

I love Gal (obvy) but she isn't the end all be all for the character.
And you left out The Flash.

And Aquaman 2 is coming out later this year...

I think you're ignoring the fact that rebooting movie franchise isn't that simple, or else every major studio would be hitting big time especially when reviving a certain Ip.

Also, Batman, Spider-Man and Superman are much popular than Wonder woman, Aquaman and The Flash in general. So they aren't *the* same.
 
And you left out The Flash.

And Aquaman 2 is coming out later this year...

I think you're ignoring the fact that rebooting movie franchise isn't that simple, because or else every major studio would be hitting big time especially reviving a certain Ip.

We can have our 4th Barry. There ya go.

Films and tv have been getting rebooted for decades now. Studios being scared are a big thing for some taking longer than others. They don't want to put the time or money to do so.

As ive said, like a broken record, SM/BM/Spidy show you can reboot in a relatively "short" amount of time. If it's good itll be easier for audiences to accept it.

This isn't a FF/XMen issue where you have to find how to put them into a shared universe that's been around for 10 years.

This is from scratch. Get the right talent behind it.

But since like you said, you cant hire me, it's ultimately mute point how either us feel things should go.
 
We can have our 4th Barry. There ya go.

Films and tv have been getting rebooted for decades now. Studios being scared are a big thing for some taking longer than others. They don't want to put the time or money to do so.

As ive said, like a broken record, SM/BM/Spidy show you can reboot in a relatively "short" amount of time. If it's good itll be easier for audiences to accept it.

This isn't a FF/XMen issue where you have to find how to put them into a shared universe that's been around for 10 years.

This is from scratch. Get the right talent behind it.

But since like you said, you cant hire me, it's ultimately mute point how either us feel things should go.
Again, you are making it seem "its that easy".

Maybe it would be easy to pitch a plan especially for hardcore comic book readers than have already envisioned how these Dc movies should be but convincing everybody at the studio, that it could be easily commercially successful ???

I'd like to see that optimism under the WBD but its just not realistic.

Though I still had Wonder woman Legacy for 2025 in my previous post, thats just 2 years from now. Then Flash and Aquaman in 2027. I'm just not calling them "easy to launch" as I'm also factoring if it would do well at the boX office.
 
I would have been happy with that.

For film, I'm in the camp of preferring trilogies and duologies more so than ongoing stories. I think that is why the DCEU works for me. To be honest, I really liked Zack Snyder's films and championed for ZSJL. Those films struck a chord with me. That being said, once ZSJL ended I was completely satisfied with the story we got and I did not need an expansion of Snyder's vision in terms of ZSJL2 and ZSJL3.

I tend to be a bigger fan of stories that have an open-ended stopping point that lean more on being somber, even if not intended. An open-ending just leaves me wanting more instead of giving too much to a point where I get tired of a character/story. I think that is why I am a big fan of Batman Returns and revisit it from time to time. On the other hand, although I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises, I don’t remember the last time I rewatched that film. I know if Christopher Nolan had omitted the cafe scene at the end I'd have liked that film soo much more. It would have been up to the viewer to determine if Batman made it out of the blast or not. Had that scene not been included, in my head, Batman would not have made it because he never struck me as a character who retires. I love how Neil Gaiman put a cap on the Batman Mythos. It's a sad ending, but it isn't. The reward for Bruce Wayne being Batman is that he got/and gets to be Batman.

What I find interesting is that the DCEU films seemed to have given us 3 Trilogies:
3. MoS, BvS : DoJ (UE), ZSJL
3. SS, BoP (atFEoOHQ), TSS
3. S!, S!FotG, BA

and 2 Duologies:
2. WW, WW84
2. A, AatLK

then 1 Single:
1. The Flash

3,2,1

In terms of shared universes, I really enjoyed what the MCU did up until a point. I know this has been said ad nauseam by many (and it rings true to me) when they state that keeping up with the MCU now feels like a chore/homework. Aside from being a completist, the only reason I am watching the MCU anymore is because I’ve already devoted soo many hours to it. It has lost its charm and I only catch the films when they are streaming. I'm behind on the shows and it takes me a long time to finish each series. I'm currently on Moon Knight, which I started months ago.

The DCAU has been my favorite shared universe. Even that one did not begin with the intention of a shared universe and eventually became one. What's great about that one is that a viewer can still treat each series as a standalone if they choose to. I do have a bias for it, being that Batman: The Animated Series' debut was what got me into Batman when I was 6.
 
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The idea that the DCEU iterations of these characters are in any way difficult to reboot is ridiculous.

If there was an audience connection, the films wouldn't be flopping. No one cares about these versions of the characters anymore. You could recast Flash tomorrow and no one would notice. The only one that gives me some pause is Momoa, but only because a recast Aquaman would presumably be closer to the comics version of the characters, which audiences aren't familiar with.
 
Let me ask you guys this though, in an alternate reality, lets say Black Adam, Fury of the Gods and The Flash were all bangers of films in terms of quality-- all three directors just knocked it out the park and made great films-- could this universe have been saved? Could it have caught a second wind? What situation would we be in now had those movies have been much better than what we got? Or would they have still all underperformed?
 
I think that is why I am a big fan of Batman Returns and revisit it from time to time.
I love Batman Returns. One of the very best Batman movies.

On the other hand, although I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises [...] I know if Christopher Nolan had omitted the cafe scene at the end I'd have liked that film soo much more. It would have been up to the viewer to determine if Batman made it out of the blast or not. Had that scene not been included, in my head, Batman would not have made it because he never struck me as a character who retires.
Completely agree.

I love how Neil Gaiman put a cap on the Batman Mythos. It's a sad ending, but it isn't. The reward for Bruce Wayne being Batman is that he got/and gets to be Batman.
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? is a truly great story :up:

The DCAU has been my favorite shared universe. Even that one did not begin with the intention of a shared universe and eventually became one. What's great about that one is that a viewer can still treat each series as a standalone if they choose to. I do have a bias for it, being that Batman: The Animated Series' debut was what got me into Batman when I was 6.
The DCAU is great. I'm currently working my way through a rewatch of the whole thing.
 
Let me ask you guys this though, in an alternate reality, lets say Black Adam, Fury of the Gods and The Flash were all bangers of films in terms of quality-- all three directors just knocked it out the park and made great films-- could this universe have been saved? Could it have caught a second wind? What situation would we be in now had those movies have been much better than what we got? Or would they have still all underperformed?

That's an almost impossible question to answer, because for those movies to have been a success, the DCEU would have to have been a success all along, which would have meant it would have been a very different animal.

The movies as they stand would never have been successful films, because they were based on that flawed foundation.

If the DCEU had got off to a much better start, then all of these conversations would be moot, as they would have just carried on with it. So your question shouldn't be what if Black Adam, Shazam 2 and The Flash were good. It should be what if Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad and Justice League had been good?

And the answer to that is that the DCU would have rivalled the MCU much more strongly, and we'd probably be looking at two healthy franchises, driven by competition - instead of one franchise that's dead in the water, and another one that's becoming more and more sclerotic by the day.
 
That's an almost impossible question to answer, because for those movies to have been a success, the DCEU would have to have been a success all along, which would have meant it would have been a very different animal.

The movies as they stand would never have been successful films, because they were based on that flawed foundation.

If the DCEU had got off to a much better start, then all of these conversations would be moot, as they would have just carried on with it. So your question shouldn't be what if Black Adam, Shazam 2 and The Flash were good. It should be what if Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad and Justice League had been good?

And the answer to that is that the DCU would have rivalled the MCU much more strongly, and we'd probably be looking at two healthy franchises, driven by competition - instead of one franchise that's dead in the water, and another one that's becoming more and more sclerotic by the day.

See, I dont know that I fully agree with that man. Because the implication here is that the filmmakers involved literally couldn't have done anything to make their own movies better simply because their movies were tied to a flawed universe. I dont believe at the end of the day that BVS, SS, JL etc were the direct cause of their reception. I believe their reception was a result of the fact that they simply werent good enough as movies themselves. That's what I'm getting at. I dont think the DCEU ties are the thing that sunk those movies, those movies all had a myriad of other problems leading to their critical and audience reception.
 
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Shazam 2 and Black Adam should’ve been the same movie. I will take that to my grave. Films like WW and Aquaman were successes because they gave audiences what they wanted and for the most part respected characters that had been written for over half a century. But those films stood alone and were anomalies that could not save the fact that the primary foundations of the universe were built upon a flawed foundation as MoS and BvS were made by someone who not only ignored the cores of DC’s two biggest characters, but had active disdain for their core tenets of who those characters were. And he kept doubling down on the darkness as evinced by the fact that he kept pushing the Knightmare scenario even in his JL film because he thought that a self-sacrificial and morally good Superman was not as cool as one who would mow people down with heat vision. Post MoS and BvS, there was just no audience goodwill anymore. And while there were some good films that came out of the DCEU, they couldn’t redeem what came before them.

Ultimately, I agree with @FunkMiller 150%. The biggest missteps came in the form of hiring Snyder, but also in trying to copy the Marvel formula. Marvel was successful because it was innovative. There was no innovation in what DC tried. They instead took the Marvel formula, and tried to do a half-baked impersonation of it only with the joy and wonder sucked out. They needed to either do something we hadn’t seen before, or if they couldn’t, then at least they should’ve put up some quality films with characters who acted like the way they had through the history of their 70-80 years of existence. That would’ve been accepted even if those films weren’t connected.
Ultimately, my biggest concern with the new Gunn-verse is that it seems like they are still forcing the same shared universe gimmick. But if there isn’t quality, or if quality suffers as a result of shoe-horning the universe, that’s not enough to pull audiences in.
 
The DCAU is great. I'm currently working my way through a rewatch of the whole thing.

I'm excited to revisit the DCAU with my daughter when she is of age. Side note: We have a cat named Beaumont in honor of Andrea from Batman: Mask of the Phantasm.

The sort of (not intended) future of the DCEU:

The Flash film established multiple timelines with one of those timelines being the DCU. The DCEU’s Flash character isn’t the DCU’s Flash. More so, The Flash film was just rebranded as a plot device/tool to try to say that the DCU was naturally/intentionally occurring. This might have given WBD a mindset where they believed they would not lose money on the 4 remaining DC films when the DCU’s announcement was made after Black Adam’s short comings at the box office. A reboot, is a reboot, is a reboot…

The Natural Implementations:

Where I think James Gunn is heading towards with the DCU, in terms of actor/character portrayal and continuity, is that he’s going to treat some characters like a comic book writer/artist. If he likes a certain actor’s portrayal, he will continue using them. It doesn’t mean that they are the same interpretation of the one seen before. I’ll use Margot Robbie as an example. He might use her as Harley Quinn again but she isn’t the same Harley Quinn as seen in the DCEU. Just an interpretation of said character. The way I liken this to is when I see Jim Lee’s art style in various storylines that are not canon to one another. Even though his drawings of Bruce Wayne always look the same, his Batman costume varies. Jim Lee’s Batm[e]n are different interpretations in Hush and All Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder. Those stories have nothing to do with one another, but they do share the same art style.

In terms of history, we might get DCEU characters/actors who have established backgrounds/portrayals (with respect to the DCEU as well as other DC films) which won’t have to be retreaded. The audience doesn’t need an origin/reintroduction for those characters just as they don't need to see origin stories for Superman and Batman anymore. I think this will be the case with Amanda Waller. Exactly like Judy Dench was M in two different 007 series. The general audience won’t likely care as long as the story and portrayal are stellar.

The Leftover Implementation:

Blue Beetle is a leftover from the DCEU that (from what I have read) isn't tied to the DCEU. This is where I am thinking there is confusion with Gunn’s Blue Beetle statements. BB looks like it will be a standalone movie that can be made to fit into the DCU. Gunn may decide whether he will canonize everything from that film, or simply the character’s/actor’s portrayal in later films (as what he might be doing with some of The Suicide Squad characters). Why I think it might be the latter is because I would assume that he, more likely than not, wants Superman: Legacy to be the starting point of the DCU. It gives him the opportunity to set the tone. I don’t really see anything wrong with Gunn wanting that.

The Forced Implementations:

Creature Comandos, Waller, and Peacemaker Season 2. Those stories frameworks were completed well before Gunn’s DCU overseeing title was given to him. From what he has stated, DCEU’s Peacemaker Season 1 ties directly into the premise of Waller and Creature Commandos is connected directly to Waller. Those same Creature Commandos will then appear in DCU films. On top of that, Peacemaker Season 2 is a continuation of Peacemaker Season 1. This looks as if Gunn is showing favoritism to his body of work and is wanting to see it come to fruition. He, as the current gatekeeper of the DCU, has the power to do so. That being said, this is where an incredible amount of mental gymnastics might have to come into play. I enjoyed Peacemaker and am hoping that Gunn gives further clarification on these projects shortly after Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is released. Who knows, he may retool them to cut all existing ties with the DCEU.
 
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Let me ask you guys this though, in an alternate reality, lets say Black Adam, Fury of the Gods and The Flash were all bangers of films in terms of quality-- all three directors just knocked it out the park and made great films-- could this universe have been saved? Could it have caught a second wind? What situation would we be in now had those movies have been much better than what we got? Or would they have still all underperformed?

I don't think it'd be "saved" as much as given another soft reboot. Cavill would remain, Black Adam would remain etc...but with slightly new direction

Shazam 2 and Black Adam should’ve been the same movie. I will take that to my grave.

WB giving Rock ALL THE POWER was such a huge mistake. Shazam having to tiptoe around BA just because he wanted nothing to do with it and even stopping the JSA from appearing still baffles me but shows once again how messy it was bts for that universe
 
Hello, friends. With the release of the Flash, which is by all accounts the closing chapter of the DC Extended Universe and fittingly released on the tenth anniversary of Man of Steel --the beginning of the DCEU, I figured we'd have retrospective thread to reflect on what I think can be easily labeled as the craziest, most divisive film franchise in movie history.

Built to compete with Marvel Studios' MCU, the DCEU was inorganically built out of Man of Steel which was intended to just be the start of a singular Superman trilogy. But in the afterglow of The Avengers' massive success DC entrusted Zack Snyder to build out the Justice League--and quick. And what followed were a series of massively divisive films that pleased some, angered some, or made some indifferent.

But whats interesting is even after Zack Snyder's departure after the infamous JL debacle, DC's filmmakers just could not seem to make four quadrant hits that pleased audiences, critics, fans and generated lots of money at the box office like Marvel seemed to effortlessly do. Some were successfully financially but were critically panned, some were critical darlings but flopped at BO, some did OK (Shazam) all around. To date, only Wonder Woman 2017 seems to be the most clear cut four quadrant winner out of the 14 film bunch.

So what are everyone's thoughts on this universe overall looking back? What went wrong? Was it all Zack Snyder's fault? Is it Warner Bros' fault? Are the problems deeper rooted? Why couldnt the filmmakers post-Snyder seem to make this work still? Do you even care? Are you like me and enjoyed this wacky, chaotic universe for the crazy niche experiment that it was? Lets reflect on this crazy-ass cinematic universe.

It's funny how much my perspective has changed over the years. Back when these films were first coming out, I was so hyped for them. So. So. Hyped. Seeing what Marvel was doing and then applying that formula to my favourite comic book characters was like a wet dream come true. As they continued to pump out under-performing film after under-performing film, I was increasingly defensive of them. Hell, apathetic to critical response. But now, as I look back at these films, I find I'm just indifferent. There are things that I do still love about them, but I'm increasingly realizing that I was defensive of these films because I wanted them to be something they weren't.

There's such a goldmine of opportunity here. WB/Gunn have been blessed with an abundance of interesting, fun, nuanced characters who (if utilized properly) could firmly populate the minds and imaginations of theatre-goers for years to come.

I think there are a number of lessons that should be taken away from the DCEU:

- Have a unified vision - It's been well documented that Snyder didn't fully intend on having a shared universe model. Instead, he had a handful of films that were meant to round out his vision while solo films and other movies were sort of just shoved into the timeline to match WB's desire for a Marvel-esque universe. Because of this, you end up with underdeveloped characters (ex. The Flash), continuity errors, abandoned plot points, and general audience confusion. That vision needs to be shared from the top down, regardless of who is directing. Think of it like a road system. Curbs and lines exist for a reason: to contain and organize the flow of traffic. It doesn't matter which street you take, so long as you stay on the road, start at Point A, and end up at Point B. There can be flexibility in the voyage, but the rules of the road still apply.

- Be adaptable - WB's stubborn refusal to hit pause and re-evaluate the Snyder-verse (post SS, pre-JL) led to them doubling down on movies that divided fans and continued the growing indifference/sad sack reputation of the DC movies. It didn't help that Marvel was firing on all cylinders. The contrast in quality was clear, and DC was a distant 2nd.

- Quality over Quantity - in a world where superhero burnout is bandied about, one thing has emerged as an absolute certainty: if it is good, the people will pay to see it. Spending time to plan and get each movie right is imperative. We don't need a slate of 40 movies announced. We need a handful of great films that leave us fulfilled while keeping us excited for what's next. Feed the present to grow the future.

- Thoroughly vet your actors - Ezra Miller. That's it. That's the message.

- Story first, Spectacle Second - Everyone wants to see a great looking movie, but that doesn't matter if it's not in service of the story. Do away with CGI filled third acts, or at the very minimum make sure they look great and have a purpose within the story. Give us character development and new and interesting takes on these characters. Why should we race back to the theatres to see them after years of disappointment? The Batman is a great example of this being done right. Snyder was great at making these characters feel god-like. What he (and others) failed to do was give us characterizations that helped us relate to these characters, despite their grandiose statures.

I'm sure there are more lessons, but those are the major ones that stick out in my head. If they can follow those lessons then DC fans will be eating good for years to come imo.
 
- Thoroughly vet your actors - Ezra Miller. That's it. That's the message.

Ezra was cast 10 years ago. Before they had any major allegations and was actively working for the studio. No amount of vetting (studios arent going to do a major deep dive for every actor) wouldnt have mattered back then since there were no major issues back then.
 
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It's funny how much my perspective has changed over the years. Back when these films were first coming out, I was so hyped for them. So. So. Hyped. Seeing what Marvel was doing and then applying that formula to my favourite comic book characters was like a wet dream come true. As they continued to pump out under-performing film after under-performing film, I was increasingly defensive of them. Hell, apathetic to critical response. But now, as I look back at these films, I find I'm just indifferent. There are things that I do still love about them, but I'm increasingly realizing that I was defensive of these films because I wanted them to be something they weren't.

There's such a goldmine of opportunity here. WB/Gunn have been blessed with an abundance of interesting, fun, nuanced characters who (if utilized properly) could firmly populate the minds and imaginations of theatre-goers for years to come.

I think there are a number of lessons that should be taken away from the DCEU:

- Have a unified vision - It's been well documented that Snyder didn't fully intend on having a shared universe model. Instead, he had a handful of films that were meant to round out his vision while solo films and other movies were sort of just shoved into the timeline to match WB's desire for a Marvel-esque universe. Because of this, you end up with underdeveloped characters (ex. The Flash), continuity errors, abandoned plot points, and general audience confusion. That vision needs to be shared from the top down, regardless of who is directing. Think of it like a road system. Curbs and lines exist for a reason: to contain and organize the flow of traffic. It doesn't matter which street you take, so long as you stay on the road, start at Point A, and end up at Point B. There can be flexibility in the voyage, but the rules of the road still apply.

- Be adaptable - WB's stubborn refusal to hit pause and re-evaluate the Snyder-verse (post SS, pre-JL) led to them doubling down on movies that divided fans and continued the growing indifference/sad sack reputation of the DC movies. It didn't help that Marvel was firing on all cylinders. The contrast in quality was clear, and DC was a distant 2nd.

- Quality over Quantity - in a world where superhero burnout is bandied about, one thing has emerged as an absolute certainty: if it is good, the people will pay to see it. Spending time to plan and get each movie right is imperative. We don't need a slate of 40 movies announced. We need a handful of great films that leave us fulfilled while keeping us excited for what's next. Feed the present to grow the future.

- Thoroughly vet your actors - Ezra Miller. That's it. That's the message.

- Story first, Spectacle Second - Everyone wants to see a great looking movie, but that doesn't matter if it's not in service of the story. Do away with CGI filled third acts, or at the very minimum make sure they look great and have a purpose within the story. Give us character development and new and interesting takes on these characters. Why should we race back to the theatres to see them after years of disappointment? The Batman is a great example of this being done right. Snyder was great at making these characters feel god-like. What he (and others) failed to do was give us characterizations that helped us relate to these characters, despite their grandiose statures.

I'm sure there are more lessons, but those are the major ones that stick out in my head. If they can follow those lessons then DC fans will be eating good for years to come imo.

I wholeheardtedly agree with that. Man of Steel in particular was born out of a then relevant discourse of Superman being boring and people desperately wanting an "Action" Superman movie. People may not remember it but that was a big conversation at in the early 2010's. It was an overreaction to the "boring" Superman Returns. And I think Warner Bros hired Snyder with the express purpose of making an "action" Superman film where we finally get to see Superman brawl with an opponent that matches him. But perhaps they leaned a little too heavy on that.
 
I think they had their one shot and they blew it. I hope Gunn’s universe is a success but audiences are burnt out on DC, and just mediocre superhero movies in general.

If WB gave a few of us here the reigns back in 2011/2012 I swear we could’ve done a better job running this franchise than them. I have a full vision of what the DCEU should have been and it’s so disappointing what we got.
 
Ezra was cast 10 years ago. Before they had any major allegations and was actively working for the studio. No amount of vetting (studios arent going to do a major deep dive for every actor) wouldnt have mattered back then since there were no major issues back then.

Yep, I'm well aware. I think my point still stands though. We've seen what the fallout for a movie can be if the actor entrenches themselves in controversy. It's something they need to avoid at all costs. This was obviously a bit unique given how long the movie gestated for, but the idea of vetting your actors to limit downside risk is incredibly important, now more than ever.
 
Gunn has a tall hill to climb to get some folks back.
I predict Superman will be a hit with critics and audiences but will make under 700 million because of past controversies ( not his fault )
And much like batman Begins, people will beg for more after the fact.
 
And much like batman Begins, people will beg for more after the fact.
Yes, I can definitely see that. A large part of the first one's job will be - like BB - to restore faith
 

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