Ways to fix the DCEU

[Kahran Ramsus]

The biggest key is probably to stop hiring divisive directors like Zack Snyder, Michael Bay, etc.

Also they need more patience. Don't greenlight a bunch of sequels and spinoffs until you see how the first film does. No more situations like Justice League where BvS is a total disaster, but oops the next film is scheduled to start filming two weeks later so they are stuck trying to scramble. They need to give themselves time to course correct if something isn't well-received.

Also, stop responding to Marvel all of the time. Iron Man is popular so they turn Hal Jordan into Tony Stark Jr. The Avengers takes off so they rush Justice League. Deadpool (not Marvel Studios, but it is the same issue) makes bank, and now they want to rush Lobo as their own version. Focus on your own stories and characters and ignore what Marvel is doing. Be trend-setters, not followers.

 

[Jonwo]

The biggest key is probably to stop hiring divisive directors like Zack Snyder, Michael Bay, etc.

Also they need more patience. Don't greenlight a bunch of sequels and spinoffs until you see how the first film does. No more situations like Justice League where BvS is a total disaster, but oops the next film is scheduled to start filming two weeks later so they are stuck trying to scramble. They need to give themselves time to course correct if something isn't well-received.

I do think the big gap between Justice League and Aquaman was deliberate to course correct from JL and also SS2, they're taking their time with the sequel rather than rush it.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

also SS2, they're taking their time with the sequel rather than rush it.

Thank ****. I had such hopes for the first one.

 

[Flash525]

A Joker/Harley film doesn't excite me as much as seeing her in another SS or - preferably - GCS (which would of course involve Selina and Ivy).

To be honest, it's been mentioned elsewhere that DC/WB have more female characters that they could play with if they wanted too - and this is one area where they have the potential to, if done correctly, do one thing better than Marvel.

Two of the 16 projects DC/WB have got going are Gotham City Sirens and Birds of Prey; why not combine them? Surely we can get a GCS vs BOP film going? Six established actresses, a cameo or two from Affleck and Leto as Batman and Joker. With the right writer, director and production budget this sort of thing could be a major hit! Hell, we could even get a cameo from the DCEU Oliver Queen; even if it is as the Green Arrow (in a hood so they can actually cast someone at a later date if they wanted too)...

They won't cancel either project simply because one will have be done filming and be post production and the other will be in production or wrapped and in post production and Wonder Woman was a huge hit, they're very unlikely to cancel the sequel.

Well they at least wont start on anything else until they've got their WW2 reception then!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Two of the 16 projects DC/WB have got going are Gotham City Sirens and Birds of Prey; why not combine them? Surely we can get a GCS vs BOP film going?

I think that if GCS and BoP both get made - and do well! - we'll see a GCS vs BoP movie not long afterwards.

 

[FunkMiller]

start over

The only decent fix available to them.

 

[eon001]

Do you think that would work though? It's a very different gamble. Imagine if Marvel started their MCU with say, Falcon, Hawkeye, Hellcat and Swordsman - do you think it would have been as favourable and popular as it is?

James Gunn somehow made Guardians work, and credit where it's due, he sure did make it work, but I'm not convinced a setup without the main players is the right way to launch a franchise or expanding universe. Not to mention, but there's a stronger likelihood that people wont watch a film about a character they know little (if anything) about; everyone knows Batman and Superman.

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. I'd like to think that Constantine and Swamp Thing are more of a solid brand than Swordsman and Hawkeye lol.

And even if the're Z list no names, You can do them on a Deadpool budget, make a good movie and restore faith in the brand.

A well made horror detective style Constantine movie would be awesome.
Or a fish out of water comedy with Booster Gold.

 

[eon001]

Rule Number One about fixing the DCEU: DON'T try to fix the DCEU.

The closest they've gotten to doing so is Wonder Woman, which simply told its story. Any, and I mean ANYthing that attempts to 'correct course' or 'fix past mistakes' or earn some kind of 'do over' comes off as desperate. DCEU looks like the Johnny come lately to the party. They are proverbially, in the friend zone. We know they want our love, and so they try to posture to get it, but we know they're really not about anything.

If DCEU wants out of the friend zone they're going to have to convince the audience, essentially, that they're going to do great films, whether the audience comes or not, shake of that desperation. This is what Wonder Woman did and JL squandered it by trying too hard to please.

To fix the DCEU: give us worthwhile dialogue, do great cinematography with visual storytelling, create moving epic scores, create memorable action rather than big action, tell timeless stories with unified visions. That's all. I would even go so far as to ban team ups for the forseeable future until the blogosphere calls for it, demands it, craves. Then you give them what they ask for, because they know you're not doing it to impress them, you're doing it because they're already impressed.

If Aquaman does another Wonder Woman and gives us a beloved film that doesn't apologize for itself or its predecessors, we'll be two steps down a road that doesn't look so bad at all.

Pretty much my sentiments. Take the emphasis off connecting everything. In fact I would even go as far as stripping Aquaman of any references to Justice League and just have him go on his own adventures without a single mention of Flash or Bruce. Same thing with Shazam.

Get faith back in WB/DC, make good movies and people will respond. The cross over s*** can happen later if ever.

 

[Flash525]

Get faith back in WB/DC, make good movies and people will respond. The cross over s*** can happen later if ever.

Different audiences want different things though; some fans wants these crossovers. Many were waiting for those moments when the likes of Stark, Rogers, Thor & Hulk shared the same screen. The problem DC/WB have, is that they rushed ahead with the wrong director and a bad script.

I would echo the sentiment not to continue with the JL, the problem is, as far as sequel films (those based on land at least) go, the JL is there, and if our heroes encounter problems, they should be able to call on their comrades.

Maybe, moving forward, they should focus on Winter Soldier style films - ones that don't include the entire league, but also those that don't focus on single characters.

Maybe a film about the adventures of Flash & Cyborg, or a film about Kara & Clark (battling Brainiac together?), or a film focused specifically in Gotham featuring Batman, Batgirl and (a) Robin, Nightwing or Red Hood? That way, it's less large scale of epic proportions, but at the same time it doesn't focus on singular characters; we've had enough films about Batman and Superman already - we know their backstory, we know their villains. Lets put them with other characters.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Maybe a film about the adventures of Flash & Cyborg, or a film about Kara & Clark (battling Brainiac together?), or a film focused specifically in Gotham featuring Batman, Batgirl and (a) Robin, Nightwing or Red Hood?

Something along the lines of the Superman: Unbound animated movie could work, depending on how they introduce Supergirl into the DCEU (and I'd be happy if they did that along the lines of Superman/Batman: Apocalypse).

 

[Flash525]

Something along the lines of the Superman: Unbound animated movie could work, depending on how they introduce Supergirl into the DCEU (and I'd be happy if they did that along the lines of Superman/Batman: Apocalypse).

Care to divulge? I haven't seen those - nor am I likely too.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Care to divulge? I haven't seen those - nor am I likely too.

They're DtV animated movies (based on comic books) in the DCUAOM (DC Universe Animated Original Movies) line. The Wikipedia entry for each includes a pretty detailed plot summary. Honestly, I recommend them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman/Batman:_Apocalypse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Unbound

 

[Flash525]

They're DtV animated movies (based on comic books) in the DCUAOM (DC Universe Animated Original Movies) line. The Wikipedia entry for each includes a pretty detailed plot summary. Honestly, I recommend them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman/Batman:_Apocalypse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Unbound

Thanks!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

No worries

 

[The Guard]

They just need to make good movies, or at least, make movies that are perceived as good. In the shorterm that means relying on fairly veteran directors with good track records and minimizing controversy and bad publicity.

I think the proof that the universe being "rushed" is not the problem here is found in Diana.

People liked her in BVS. They liked her even more in WONDER WOMAN, and beyond people hating Joss Whedon for using the character to do physical comedy, I don't recall a dropoff in popularity of the character in JUSTICE LEAGUE. Which would tend to mean it's entirely possible for these characters to grow on people even though they weren't introduced in solo films. AQUAMAN will be the real test of that, and to some extent, FLASHPOINT.

 

[Jonwo]

Pretty much my sentiments. Take the emphasis off connecting everything. In fact I would even go as far as stripping Aquaman of any references to Justice League and just have him go on his own adventures without a single mention of Flash or Bruce. Same thing with Shazam.

Get faith back in WB/DC, make good movies and people will respond. The cross over s*** can happen later if ever.

I suspect they're going to follow the Wonder Woman model of everything being self contained with only small references at the beginning and end. Shazam has Freddy being a superhero expert so you'd expect him to reference Superman or Batman

 

[Tg11]

- The "Wonder Woman" model approach works in the sense that they should continue to make standalone films with the occasional references or Easter eggs that tie into future films.

- Listening to the fans. Man of Steel (2013) destroyed Metropolis, now every movie makes mention of how the sites of battles is devoid of civilians. Dawn of Justice (2016) was too dark, so Justice League (2017) lightened it up. What fans have to say is important, but don't make yourselves beholden to everything we say. Not everyone will be happy with every movie, but fans definitely know which stories they want to hear and how they want their characters portrayed. Take that advice but don't throw away everything you built because one vocal minority complained.

- Adapting the right stories. There are a lot of great stories out there in the annals of DC history, but why aren't they being adapted for the big screen? It may be new but when BVS teased a future where Superman was following the events of the video game Injustice, fans went nuts with the potential that held. Injustice offers a lot of thematic material that could truly allow DC to make a statement with their stories. There are so many arcs for every superhero that could be made into brilliant films (example; ie. Flashpoint) that could help distinguish the DCEU from Marvel once and for all.

- Or creating new stories. Since the DCEU is its own fictional timeline, why does there even need to be a source story to be adapted? Get great writers and tell stories unlike what is on the written page. Look at Wonder Woman (2017) with Patty Jenkins' film being a great example from moving it to WWII to World War I as long as you achieve a faithful adaptation of the main superhero, throw the rest away and rewrite from scratch. As much as we want to see Darkseid, Black Adam, The Riddler and all the other DC villains, creating a brand new one we have never seen before would be damn cool. Get DC's best and brightest and partner with them to come up with something no one has ever seen before.

- Hiring more filmmakers like for example DC has Snyder, Jenkins, Ayer and now Wan. They need to reach out to more elite directors to represent their future franchises going forward. DC and Warner Bros need to find more unique and varied filmmakers to bring their films to life and make sure they feel comfortable doing more daring things with the material.

- Of course the big one being to do more solo films and then build towards a huge team-up. The thing Marvel got right is that they took their time in building their universe by doing solo films and those films spawning off into franchises before they did team-up films like the Avengers. DC needs to do that in the sense of having that continuity of building up their franchise but also doing it with less than established actors in the roles. By doing that the lesser known actors who have screen presence and can act it would do wonders for them as far as it being breakout films for them (examples being Evans when he was first cast as Captain America or Hemsworth when he was first cast as Thor) DC needs to go after B actors. Build the franchises off of them and take chances. By doing that you essentially restore faith in the DCEU and then you could eventually build towards future Justice League films.

 

[Flash525]

People liked her in BVS. They liked her even more in WONDER WOMAN, and beyond people hating Joss Whedon for using the character to do physical comedy, I don't recall a dropoff in popularity of the character in JUSTICE LEAGUE. Which would tend to mean it's entirely possible for these characters to grow on people even though they weren't introduced in solo films. AQUAMAN will be the real test of that, and to some extent, FLASHPOINT.

Hasn't that been debunked (again)? I seem to remember reading a recent article stating that current plans were to simply do a Flash story absent of time travel? Involving the Rogues instead?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

What fans have to say is important, but don't make yourselves beholden to everything we say. Not everyone will be happy with every movie, but fans definitely know which stories they want to hear and how they want their characters portrayed. Take that advice but don't throw away everything you built because one vocal minority complained.

Can we have that one put on a plaque somewhere?

 

[Tg11]

Can we have that one put on a plaque somewhere?

Am I wrong?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Am I wrong?

One of the 'right-est' things I've seen.

 

[MbJ]

The biggest key is probably to stop hiring divisive directors like Zack Snyder, Michael Bay, etc.

Funny thing is I actually think Bay could turn in a good, crowd pleasing Lobo. I hate his Transformers movies (except the first one) but Pain & Gain is a guilty pleasure of mine, and I think a similar black comedy action take would be perfect for the Main Man.

No more situations like Justice League where BvS is a total disaster, but oops the next film is scheduled to start filming two weeks later so they are stuck trying to scramble. They need to give themselves time to course correct if something isn't well-received.

That is the big one. The amount of rushing in this franchise is a real problem.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

The amount of rushing in this franchise is a real problem.

Exactly. Most of the other problems seem to be tied into this.

 

[S. Grundy]

Funny thing is I actually think Bay could turn in a good, crowd pleasing Lobo. I hate his Transformers movies (except the first one) but Pain & Gain is a guilty pleasure of mine, and I think a similar black comedy action take would be perfect for the Main Man.



That is the big one. The amount of rushing in this franchise is a real problem.

Pain & Gain is easily Bay's best movie, and he's basically doing a more sociopathic Coen Bros. film. And that's kinda the perfect take on a Lobo movie, black comedy based around a degenerate sociopathic *******.

 

[metaphysician]

Rule Number One about fixing the DCEU: DON'T try to fix the DCEU.

The closest they've gotten to doing so is Wonder Woman, which simply told its story. Any, and I mean ANYthing that attempts to 'correct course' or 'fix past mistakes' or earn some kind of 'do over' comes off as desperate. DCEU looks like the Johnny come lately to the party. They are proverbially, in the friend zone. We know they want our love, and so they try to posture to get it, but we know they're really not about anything.

If DCEU wants out of the friend zone they're going to have to convince the audience, essentially, that they're going to do great films, whether the audience comes or not, shake of that desperation. This is what Wonder Woman did and JL squandered it by trying too hard to please.

To fix the DCEU: give us worthwhile dialogue, do great cinematography with visual storytelling, create moving epic scores, create memorable action rather than big action, tell timeless stories with unified visions. That's all. I would even go so far as to ban team ups for the forseeable future until the blogosphere calls for it, demands it, craves. Then you give them what they ask for, because they know you're not doing it to impress them, you're doing it because they're already impressed.

If Aquaman does another Wonder Woman and gives us a beloved film that doesn't apologize for itself or its predecessors, we'll be two steps down a road that doesn't look so bad at all.

I would elaborate a bit: should they look at the prior movies, to see what failed? Sure, it will help inform how to do things better in the future.

However, should they try to "fix" the prior movies? No, because nothing can fix them. Those movies already happened, they already came out, their flaws and failures are permanent. Zero screen time should be spent trying to somehow undo this, to retroactively make them better, because such is impossible, and it will only hurt the current movie.

Which is to say, Flashpoint? Terrible idea, because everything they've hinted about it screams "This movie will make all the prior ones better!"