Returns or 89?

[Cinemaman]

I liked Burton's movies and I think B89 was better than BR.

 

[tinister]

There was definitely some very well done elements in Batman Returns.

Some of my favorites (I'll probably forget a couple since I haven't seen it in a few years):

1) Almost every Selena Kyle scene.
2) Almost every Cat Woman sequence. Especially her first outing in the costume when she surprises the burglar in the department store - and the would-be rapist.
3) The sexual tension between Catwoman and Bats was really well done.
4) The incredibly well done scene at the ball when Selena and Wayne both realize each other's secret identity.
5) The cool shot of Batman sitting in the batcave all wounded and beat.

Again - probably a few other choice moments that I forgot.

But at the same time - there was just something incosistent with the both the visuals and the timing or editing of the movie that kept all those choice elements from gelling together.

Batman89 had fewer choice moments - but overall - everything flowed better.

So again - 89 for me.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

89!

i HATE style over substance in every way, Returns was a horrificly scripted, terrible visuals (Burton i hate you), german expressism or whatever is NOT Batman, B89 visually totally fit Batman.

Returns is anything but style over substance. Look at the actual script. Look at how the film explores Bruce Wayne's personality through the Penguin (the lost orphan), Catwoman (the angry vigilante) and Shreck (the business man).

Look at how clever the script is; "I was their number one son, and they treated me like number two."

If you don't know anything about German Expressionism, or Film Noir, or the Tales of Hoffman, then fine; but don't say they don't suit Batman if you don't know what they are.

 

[Bat Attack]

I find it funny that Batman is off in the side on the Batman Returns laserdisc cover. Even though the movie did focus more on villians than Batman, like Tim Burton says "Less it more" and I agree.

 

[CConn]

Returns is anything but style over substance. Look at the actual script. Look at how the film explores Bruce Wayne's personality through the Penguin (the lost orphan), Catwoman (the angry vigilante) and Shreck (the business man).

Look at how clever the script is; "I was their number one son, and they treated me like number two."

If you don't know anything about German Expressionism, or Film Noir, or the Tales of Hoffman, then fine; but don't say they don't suit Batman if you don't know what they are.

The simple fact to the matter is some people simply can't grasp subility in film - it all needs to be laid out in front of them for it to be understandable (which is something BB did very well). Not that I'm knocking them; the same thing happens to me occasionally (I still need someone to explain Blade Runner to me).

 

[BatMatt]

The simple fact to the matter is some people simply can't grasp subility in film - it all needs to be laid out in front of them for it to be understandable (which is something BB did very well). Not that I'm knocking them; the same thing happens to me occasionally (I still need someone to explain Blade Runner to me).

You should read the book, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep", that should help you understand Blade Runner, as will more repeat viewings

 

[jusblaze21]

Batman 89

 

[Kevin Roegele]

The simple fact to the matter is some people simply can't grasp subility in film - it all needs to be laid out in front of them for it to be understandable (which is something BB did very well). Not that I'm knocking them; the same thing happens to me occasionally (I still need someone to explain Blade Runner to me).

I agree, however with films based on comics, some fans will only accept a film as a direct translation of the printed page. Any attempts to bring a fresh approach is usually ignored. "Hey, Burton has spun straw into gold!" "But I want straw, the comics are straw!"

Batman Returns has everything in the comics, but adds so much to it. Burton improves both the Penguin and Catwoman - these are the best ever versions of the characters in any medium - and introduces a worthy new villain in Max Schreck.

 

[Bat Attack]

I agree, however with films based on comics, some fans will only accept a film as a direct translation of the printed page. Any attempts to bring a fresh approach is usually ignored. "Hey, Burton has spun straw into gold!" "But I want straw, the comics are straw!"

Batman Returns has everything in the comics, but adds so much to it. Burton improves both the Penguin and Catwoman - these are the best ever versions of the characters in any medium - and introduces a worthy new villain in Max Schreck.

 

[captain_jimbo]

I loved Batman 1989 and Returns, but I had to vote for Batman 1989 just in front of it.

 

[bdsproductions]

Returns is anything but style over substance. Look at the actual script. Look at how the film explores Bruce Wayne's personality through the Penguin (the lost orphan), Catwoman (the angry vigilante) and Shreck (the business man).

Look at how clever the script is; "I was their number one son, and they treated me like number two."

If you don't know anything about German Expressionism, or Film Noir, or the Tales of Hoffman, then fine; but don't say they don't suit Batman if you don't know what they are.

i know alot about Noir.

i just personally think if your going to do Batman DO BATMAN, don't express him through other characters.

i will admit the dialouge WAS pretty good at times.

Noir TOTALLY suits Batman.

i meant THE LOOK of german expressionism, to a extreme degree does not go well, it's one thing to have Batman in a old, thirties city with big gargoyles and stuff, it's another to have.......Batman Returns.

just my opinion.

 

[JTStarkiller]

german expressism or whatever is NOT Batman, B89 visually totally fit Batman.

Aren't they both German expressionistic?

 

[bdsproductions]

Aren't they both German expressionistic?

yes but B89 to a much lesser extent.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Batman Returns for me, the action, story and love interest are much better IMO, and Keaton does more of his own stunts as well. At various points in B89 you can see it is not Keaton behind the mask in the action sequences in B89.

 

[The Joker.]

I think they're both great movies, but Batman Returns has the edge IMO, because it has alot of themes in the movie which is reflected in the villains, which also echoes something in Batman himself.

 

[Nirr]

Returns, I can't explain it... I just Love the movie

 

[returntovoid]

I like both B89 and Returns equally but I think Returns is better.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Returns for me, no contest. Much deeper, much more emotional, much more personal and more serious. Its a sad and dark tale. I cant say enough about how much I love this movie, its without a doubt my favorite Batman movie and oneof my all time favorite movies alltogether.

It follows a classic dark fairy tale formula mixed with modern storytelling and Burton's surreal, gloomy and artistic vision. This way an entirely new genre is created - it's a world of black and white and stripes and spirals, the world of tarnished souls and hurt outsiders (Penguin, Bruce, Selina). I love how Batman was being more like a Phantom of the Opera and a person that has a mysterious dark side. He sleeps sits alone in the dark. Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn't speak a single line until 37 min into the film.
As Burton said: Again, I felt less is more with him in the sense of who he is. (&#8230 Michael’s eyes - it goes back to kind of like silent movie acting. I like when people sort of just look. It’s a movie so you kinda get more between the lines then you do [from] the actual lines (&#8230 There's a loneliness to that character and witheldness. He’s a character that is sad and is private
Even when hes standing there looking there's an electricity about him

He finds hope in Selina, sees her as a fellow tarnished soul who is hurting inside like he does, someone who is also a torn apart outsider. She was his bride of Frankestein.

And then theres this great wintery feel to it. I just love this movie

I agree, however with films based on comics, some fans will only accept a film as a direct translation of the printed page. Any attempts to bring a fresh approach is usually ignored. "Hey, Burton has spun straw into gold!" "But I want straw, the comics are straw!"

Batman Returns has everything in the comics, but adds so much to it. Burton improves both the Penguin and Catwoman - these are the best ever versions of the characters in any medium - and introduces a worthy new villain in Max Schreck.

Exactly. Whether it is faithful or not is irrelevant. In the long run, I being faithful to comics has anything to do with a quality movie.Being faithful to the source and quality are two completely different things which do not affect each other. The great late Stanley Kubrick's The Shining had little to do with the actual book, yet it's a masterpiece. However at the time of the release it fell victim of this misguided criticism, just like Batman Returns.

 

[Irony-Man]

Batman Returns is one of the best Christmas movies ever.

Check my sig for what I think of both Batman 89 and Returns.

 

[zkuit]

They're both good movies - what I've found quite bold in Returns was the sexual undercurrent between Batman and Catwoman: apart from the plot, some scenes seemed visually conceived to explore the Bat's secret dreams (the sequence that comes to mind is when they end on the narrow terrace after they first fight and she explores the batsuit with her clawed hand). Do you agree?

 

[Bat-Mite]

Batman '89 is more of a true Batman movie, but I prefer Returns.

Returns is Burton unrestrained (he didn't have so much creative freedom for '89) and at the top of his game to boot. I find Batman to be more interesting in it and find the villains to be a lot more deep and interesting as well. The Joker was a bad apple from the very beginning of the movie, but Penguin and Catwoman both have reasons for becoming who they are. Also, I loved the whole winter wonderland thing. It's a very different kind of environment to put Batman in and it ensured that we'd always have a Batman movie to watch at Christmas. Well, those of us who like it, anyway.

I can definitely understand its critics, though. It is a huge departure from the more traditional Batman we saw in the first movie. It has all those sex references and a few gruesome elements (Penguin eating a fish, biting a man's nose, and having black blood) that turned some people off and contributed to Burton having the franchise taken from him. And some of the campy elements in it even rival Schumacher, so I can understand those who say it's not as dark as the first one, even though it seems darker to me.

 

[Fudgie]

Batman 89 wins by default. Returns is just too weird that it doesn't feel like a Batman movie.

 

[GothamAlleys]

They're both good movies - what I've found quite bold in Returns was the sexual undercurrent between Batman and Catwoman

That reminds me of the comment I got yesterday: Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer have a sexual tension that is so hot you could melt butter on it

 

[litlgreendude]

89 hands down

 

[Cain]

Batman Returns