The Dark Knight The ultimate question : Will it be better than Batman '89?

[ronzpeed]

IDK - I prefer my catwoman to be sane, just creative in her exploits of seducing Batman. And if anyone nailed a role = Uma Thurman's Poison Ivy. She's the best thing about that movie. And I honestly can't really see PI played any other way.

You must be ****ting me! . She was just a ripoff of Pheifer's Catwoman.

 

[The Batman]

Will it be a better movie? Probably....

Will it be more iconic and just plain entertaining? Honestly, no. Say what you will about B89, but i can watch that freaking movie over and over, it has so many badass and iconic scenes, lines, and music.

 

[jsf]

good f'n point

 

[gillberg2k1]

I don't know if this is the "ultimate question" because I see the first series of movies as something altogether different from these movies (a trilogy I hope, with Nolan at the helm)

I think the question sholud be: is it a respectable follow-up to the great "Batman Begins"?

For those of us who was old enough to go to the experince (and understand the importance of it! ) the phenomon of Batman '89, we know that those days will never repeat itself because that movie did a lot more for Batman as character than just be a summer blockbuster movie.

You have to take that first Tim Burton movie in context of how the mainstream (outside of the comic fans) saw Batman at that time, which was still with the stench of "campiness" from the '60s TV show, not to mention the Joker as some white mustache clown that was only out to "foil Bamtan" and never kill anyone ala Ceasar Romero.

For those of us who wanted a truer, darker depiction of Batman on film as we had in the comics at the time (particular with Frank Miller's DarkKnght Returns and Year one) we really held are breath with all that we heard was coming out for this movie.

Did you know there was a rumor one time of Bill Murray portraying Batman in that movie? Yeah Bill Murray. Let that run through your head for a while.

This is why many of us long-time Bat-fans was so pissed-off when we first heard that Micahel ("Mr. Mom") Keaton as portraying the Dark knight, thinking this would be an updated version of the camp show on acreen.

And some people even championed that the movie be a comedy. go figure!

Back then you didn't have the internet and stuff or chat rooms or My space pages from producers and actors, so we actually had to write a letter of cmplaint to the movie company. Which a lot of us did after hearing Michael Keaton being chosen as Batman.

Which is why Warner rushed out a teaser, showing that the movie was nothing but camp! And thank goodness it wasn't! It showed Batman as dark and distrueb and scarring the street punks and made the Joker the crazed criminal phycopath that we knew and loved (to hate).

Whch, by the way, Jack Nicholson played to the hilt.

it's always easy in hindsight to complain about something years later, but for the time, that was a cutting edge performance in view of the only thing we had prior to nicholson's portral was Ceasar Romero. But to me it has stood the test of time!

So that movie stands out for a lot of us long time Batman fans who want a darker knight on film becasue it not only conquer the box-office but it wipe that stench of the campiness that was still lingering in the air from the 60s TV show.

Unfortunaely, a big whiff of that stench resurfaced with "Batman and Robin", but that's another story in itself.

Bottom line: You can't compare this to the '89 Batman because the factors that faced that movie are not relevant when it comes to this one.

Batman (in general) is now seen as a dark character and the mainstrean do not want a campy Batman in their movie ever again by the reaction we got from 'Batman and Robin' which in some way is the only god thing to come out of that movie.

Agreed 100%.

What bothers me is that so many are quick to judge the Burton films/franchise and dismiss it as garbage or brushing them off as being mediocre. (These people are just as bad as those who cling to the past and refuse to accept Nolan's work.) Sorry guys, but whether you like it or not, B89 had a much bigger impact on film, comic book movies and pop culture than Batman Begins, TDK, or any other sequel to this run will ever have. Period. For that alone, I cannot discredit B89 and even BR to some extent for the impact they made and for the path they paved for future film makers like Christopher Nolan.

Whether we like it or not, without Burton, Nolan's Batman would not be around, at least not in the capacity that it is now. You can think what you want about the flaws in B89; but just remember the context of the times and how important that film was and still is to comic films. Begins may be more pleasing as a film to comic book fans and even to some critics, but it's impact was nowhere near that of B89 for reasons mentioned in the post I've quoted.

There should really be no debate here. Respect B89 and Burton's acomplishments for comic films. You can like the film or hate it, because at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. But don't forget that we're getting what we're getting now because of what has come before it.

 

[CConn]

Some people feel that Begins is overrated. But really, it is B89 that is overrated. It was a tremendous film in the context of its time and place in cinematic history. But if you view it as an isolated film, it is certainly good but not nearly as great as its powerful score and diehard fans make it out to be.

B89's popularity has been all over the place over the past couple years. Right after BB came out, I'd say it was GREATLY underrated due to overzealous Nolan supporters demonization of the previous film series.

Is it overrated now? I really don't know. If a lot of people dig the film, a lot of people dig the film. If it still has a large segment of fans 18 years, and 5 other Batman movies after it's realize, it must be a pretty damn good movie.

You personally might not be too crazy about it. But I, personally, am not too crazy about Superman: The Movie...but I can still acknowledge and accept the giant following that film has.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

What no one knows is that I taught the good Keyser all he knows

Oh sure, take credit for my work.

He lies, dear. He lies.

We have a lot of pyschics on this board...

EVERYBODY on the internet is psychic. Didn't you know that? Everyone here can tell you the plot of Batman 3 and who will be in it.

Oddly none of them will agree...

*Apolojizes to Keyser*

That's okay, Anjow. You'd credit Mir with creating Batman if you thought it would get you some play. No offense, dude, but I haven't seen that much drool since nursery school.

PS: In my experience, you don't doubt the Norman.

Of course you don't doubt Norm; I taught him everything he knows.

 

[StorminNorman]

Of course you don't doubt Norm; I taught him everything he knows.

 

[Batman]

I am so the Frasier of that group.

 

[CConn]

I call Sam.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Hey, Normie, errh, eh, it's a little-known fact that, uh, due to the shape of the North American elk's esophagus, even if it could speak, it could not pronounce the word "lasagna."

 

[strider]

This movie will be NOTHING like B'89..........most people are expecting this and it's really sad....I know I sound harsh. I just have a feeling we're expecting something but Nolan will give us something totally different.

 

[blind_fury]

You guys expecting a film far superior to Batman 89 are setting yourselves up.

I don't expect much...I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than horribly disappointed.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

i picked the 3rd option. this film has a lot of potential to be the best Bat film of all time, but only time will tell. i think Begins is better than Bat '89, but lately i have been more fond of the '89 film. proly it all depends on my mood.

 

[Cinemaman]

Is vodka better than beer?

Whisky beats all of them

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Maybe I'll have to watch 89 again. I havent seen it since that one time in the theater when I was 13 and expecting Dark Knight Returns.

Hopefully bat-dance will stand the test of time.

 

[raybia]

Definitely a better comparsion is Batman 89 and TDK. I know we are talking apples and oranges but it terms of overall cinematic experience I have to give the strong edge to TDK.

 

[raybia]

You guys expecting a film far superior to Batman 89 are setting yourselves up.

.

I guarantee it blind fury and I'm so confident that if I'm wrong I will agree with any position that you take on any subject for a whole month on this boards.

This will not be based on box office results though but we will use Rotten Tomatoes to determine it.

 

[El Payaso]

I know it's stupid to invite Mr. Obviousness and Mrs. Reality to this thread but...

How the hell could I know if it's going to be better?

 

[raybia]

I know it's stupid to invite Mr. Obviousness and Mrs. eality to this thread but...

How the hell could I know if it's going to be better?

Faith. But not blind faith. Faith based on knowledge. Knowledge of what we saw from BB and of what we know so far about this current production.

 

[El Payaso]

I thought BB was going to be the **** but wasn't for me. Way too much bad filmed action and repetitive spoonfeeding dialogue.

Now, seeing Goyer is not on the dialogues anymore and that Nolan will probably get the comments about the action (and no katie Holmes)... this could work very good.

They should leave Nolan to do his own thing. Memento or Insomnia are way better than BB.

 

[raybia]

I thought BB was going to be the **** but wasn't for me. Way too much bad filmed action and repetitive spoonfeeding dialogue.

Now, seeing Goyer is not on the dialogues anymore and that Nolan will probably get the comments about the action (and no katie Holmes)... this could work very good.

They should leave Nolan to do his own thing. Memento or Insomnia are way better than BB.

I loved BB but I agree it could have been better. I believe that Nolan as an outstanding young filmmaker will continue to improve and will learn from the shortcomings of BB. Plus when you throw his brother Jonathan in the mix, I think TDK will be a superior movie to BB and even make BB better in retrospect.

I have faith that TDK will be to BB that Empire was to A New Hope.

 

[itsthebatman]

I thought BB was going to be the **** but wasn't for me. Way too much bad filmed action and repetitive spoonfeeding dialogue.

Now, seeing Goyer is not on the dialogues anymore and that Nolan will probably get the comments about the action (and no katie Holmes)... this could work very good.

They should leave Nolan to do his own thing. Memento or Insomnia are way better than BB.

Memento, yes. Insomnia, no. I was actually quite disappointed, felt it was very predictable, right through to the ending. Thought The Prestige was pretty good, mind.

About TDK? Better action, improved quality of dialogue, and sterling performances from Ledger and Eckhart, and we'll have the superhero movie to beat all superhero movies, SM2 being the best so far, IMO.

 

[raybia]

Memento, yes. Insomnia, no. I was actually quite disappointed, felt it was very predictable, right through to the ending. Thought The Prestige was pretty good, mind.

About TDK? Better action, improved quality of dialogue, and sterling performances from Ledger and Eckhart, and we'll have the superhero movie to beat all superhero movies, SM2 being the best so far, IMO.

I somewhat agree with the predictability of the story but yet I was very fascinated by the characters and that is what kept my interest from beginning to end.

 

[itsthebatman]

I loved BB but I agree it could have been better. I believe that Nolan as an outstanding young filmmaker will continue to improve and will learn from the shortcomings of BB. Plus when you throw his brother Jonathan in the mix, I think TDK will be a superior movie to BB and even make BB better in retrospect.

I have faith that TDK will be to BB that Empire was to A New Hope.

And hopefully not Exorcist II: The Heretic to The Exorcist. Yeesh.

 

[itsthebatman]

I somewhat agree with the predictability of the story but yet I was very fascinated by the characters and that is what kept my interest from beginning to end.

Meh. Much as I like Al Pacino, I felt he didn't deliver. Robin Williams did not convince me either. Anyway...