Reviving DC in the 1950s?

[Artistsean]

In the 1950s DC revived some of their superheroes, but instead of just bringing them back they changed them.
Flash, Green Lantern, and others, went through some major changes and became the characters they are today.

I am just wondering, if you could have changed the characters back then or maybe change them today (either by totally reviving them like the 1950s did, or by adding some changes to their mythology) what would you do? And how would you do it?

I don't know exactly any major changes, but I always thought that one of the requirements for being Green Lantern would be extreme creativity since they can create anything with their rings.
So maybe almost all the GLs would have been artists. And that would have probably made GL the liberal, socially conscious, JLA member. While I would not have changed him being part of the Crops or being a space cop, just maybe had being an artist be highly important to being a Lantern.

What are some of the changes you would have made back then, changes would would have liked to see over the years, or changes you would like to see now?

 

[Assassin]

no.

 

[WompuM]

Way to be open minded assass

 

[Anubis]

The industry would have to crash again before they'd be able to get away with it. That's why they were able to do it the first time, those crazy religious nuts all but banned comics and a lot of people simply stopped reading them. So, you'd likely have to destroy the industry first, then rebuild. But that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[Artistsean]

I'm not saying that comics are going to be redone again, although it seems like Comics (except for recently) have almost died out about 3-5 times.

I was just curious if you could have input on revising a character (like they did back then, with massive or small changes)
What changes would you like to see?

 

[st barbara]

The industry would have to crash again before they'd be able to get away with it. That's why they were able to do it the first time, those crazy religious nuts all but banned comics and a lot of people simply stopped reading them. So, you'd likely have to destroy the industry first, then rebuild. But that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

In some ways it was the banning of the horror comics in the 1950's (or rather the creation of the Comics Code in reaction to Dr Wertham's diatribes) that ENABLED the Super heros to make a comback in the late 50's, early 60's. After World War II the superhero comics struggled with horror and S F comics becoming much more popular. While D C continued to publish "Batman", "Superman" and "Wonder Woman", few other companies retained any of their superhero titles and produced poor copies of the most popular comics of the day, the "E C" horror and S F titles. With the excessive reaction from the public, media and government (comic publishers were actually called to testify before a Senate comittee on Juvenile Delinquency !) to the outcry caused by Wertham's book "Seduction Of The Innocent" the comic book industry decided to censor itself, creating the Comics Code Authority. The first thing the code did was to crack down on the violent crime, horror and war comics that were common at the time. With the publishers unable to produce the same comics that had been popular previously, they fell back on the superhero genre which had appeared to die in the aftermath of World War II.

 

[Anubis]

Well, there you go.

 

[Laplace_Zombie]

The industry would have to crash again before they'd be able to get away with it. That's why they were able to do it the first time, those crazy religious nuts all but banned comics and a lot of people simply stopped reading them. So, you'd likely have to destroy the industry first, then rebuild. But that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

If that's what it takes to make DC enjoyable again...

 

[Anubis]

It is enjoyable, maybe you just aren't reading the right books.

 

[SuGarRush]

I quite like DC, as long as I take care to avoid every Mega-event cross over and Countdown to anything book.
Which means usually all I read from them is Booster Gold and Legion of Super-Heroes really. But that's ok, cause those both rock my socks.(Now that Super-girl is gone!)

 

[Doc Destruction]

It is enjoyable, maybe you just aren't reading the right books.

Exactly.

 

[SuGarRush]

:gl:

In the 1950s DC revived some of their superheroes, but instead of just bringing them back they changed them.
Flash, Green Lantern, and others, went through some major changes and became the characters they are today.

I am just wondering, if you could have changed the characters back then or maybe change them today (either by totally reviving them like the 1950s did, or by adding some changes to their mythology) what would you do? And how would you do it?

I don't know exactly any major changes, but I always thought that one of the requirements for being Green Lantern would be extreme creativity since they can create anything with their rings.
So maybe almost all the GLs would have been artists. And that would have probably made GL the liberal, socially conscious, JLA member. While I would not have changed him being part of the Crops or being a space cop, just maybe had being an artist be highly important to being a Lantern.

What are some of the changes you would have made back then, changes would would have liked to see over the years, or changes you would like to see now?

Just a little side note, my mom was a professional artist for 30+ years, and my father is in the advertising business. I've met quite a few artists in my lifetime through them. Most of the PROFESSIONAL artists I know or have met through them have been conservative. The artsy kids who run around college campuses are one thing, but professional artists, at least the ones I know, are capitalist businesspeople just like other specialists in the work force. They may have slightly liberal leanings, or conservative ones, but like the VAST majority of Americans, they are neither conservative nor liberal, just somewhere in the middle.
Not trying to be rude, just thought I'd point that out t:
John Stewart is a architect, not an artist, yet he still uses his drafting tables and all that jazz. (although he probably would be using computers now,but that is beside the point) He has creative ability but I wouldn't call him an artist. I am probably wrong here, but I thought Alan Scott was a respected businessman, owned a radio company or something?
and as we all know, the Greatest Green Lantern of all time was a Jet Jockey, a test pilot.
I'm just saying that while creativity is USUALLY associated with the artistic type, I know a LARGE amount of extremely creative people who are not "artists" and I know a large amount of "artists" who are really not that creative or talented, they just enjoy the lifestyle.

All this to say, while I enjoy the idea of a comicbook artist being a super-hero, I don't think that immediately makes him an "Artist", if you understand what I'm trying to say? Professional artists and "Artsy" people are oftentimes leagues apart. (But then, you probably already know all this Sean, you seem to have quite a grasp on the world of art; I just wanted to throw my two cents in :gl:

 

[Artistsean]

Well throw it right back. Only kidding.
Thanks for your comments.

What i was basing my idea of him being more liberal because he would be an artist was for two reasons.
I, my mother who is an artist, all her friends from college and high school, my uncle, and most of my art college (but mostly me and my mother), were liberal.
You should have seen how upset everyone was when Bush was a second term.
I do know what you mean about people who just enjoy the lifestyle, I knew a few people like that, but the majority of artists I met usually just do their art because they love it. And I wasn't saying Hal was going to be one of those types of artists (in my idea). He would have either been a professional, like a comic artist, or someone who paints for museums, and loves his work.
So I was just using my own personal experiance.
But the other reason was that back then the characters, to get the emediate point of the charactger across, would have probably been the steriotypical artist. And I think that would be more liberal than Hal is.

As for being a professional artist, I think John Stewart being an architect would qualify him as an artist. Just because someone is professional or getting paid doesn't make them a bad artist either.
I love so many artists' art in comics and cartoons and i think they are very talented and creative.
Its true you don't have to be an artist to have creativity, but again I thought to get their point across that the ring requires creativity above all else they would probably show the first few users are artists (either professionally or unproffessionally). Plus I am an artist, I draw, and want to be a comic artist. So that was also sort of a personal thing, I wanted to see that the ring required an artist for it to work successfully.
Plus I thought it would be an interesting and different to do something like that.
Its like saying the ring requires the user to be fearless, and has a weakness to yellow. They could also add that the user must have great creativity. Meaning that the user doesn't have to be an artist, but that would be cool. And it just seems, to me, that someone who uses their imagination as a weapon would have to be very creative.
It would just be an official rule for the rings that would be cool, to me.



So that would just be a change or something added that I would be interested in seeing, but maybe not anyone else.
Anyone else have ideas that they would like to mention, ideas that may wreck a character or their history but you still think it might be interesting or fun. Anyone have anything?

 

[seblopez]

I would remove Batman from the DC universe and placed him on a world of his own, also one where Robin never existed

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, I wouldn't read that.

 

[Artistsean]

Originally comic characters lived in seperate universes. I think it wasn't until Marvel that characters started crossing over into eachother's stories.

 

[seblopez]

I'm fine with characters from different series coexisting in the same universe, I just think it doesn't always make sense. There's been some pretty good Batman/Superman crossovers, but I can only accept it as one-shot off-continuity things. The existence of the JLA with Batman in it, and Superman overshadowing most of the other heroes, is the main reason I've always leaned more towards Marvel.

About re imagining Green Lantern, I'd say if he's part of a galactic corps, he should barely ever be seen on Earth, let alone be part of an Earth super-hero team. I never understood the sense in coming up with a whole universe filled of powerful beings, just to make them all converge on Earth for whatever stupid reason (this is a Marvel problem too)

 

[Anubis]

Originally comic characters lived in seperate universes. I think it wasn't until Marvel that characters started crossing over into eachother's stories.

False. The fact that the Fantastic Four was Marvel Comic's answer to the JLA disproves that. The JSA, the All Winners squadron or whatever their name was. They've almost done the shared universe thing since the beginning.

I'm fine with characters from different series coexisting in the same universe, I just think it doesn't always make sense. There's been some pretty good Batman/Superman crossovers, but I can only accept it as one-shot off-continuity things. The existence of the JLA with Batman in it, and Superman overshadowing most of the other heroes, is the main reason I've always leaned more towards Marvel.

I don't think you've ever read a single issue of Justice League in your entire life.

 

[Artistsean]

I thought I heard that comics didn't really have characters living in the same universe until Marvel started doing that. I thought I heard it from a teacher (a teacher of comics) but now that I think about it I think I heard it from Stan Lee. And you know how Stan Lee starts everything.
Also Marvel did start giving characters more human characteristics and personalities, so I thought it was possible.

A sort of Timeline
DC's Justice Society of America was introduced in 1940
Marvel's All-Winners Squad was introduced in 1946
DC's first meeting of Superman and Batman was in 1952 (I think)
DC's Justice League was introduced in 1960
Marvel's FF was introduced in 1961
Marvel's The Avengers was introduced in 1963
DC's All-Star Squadron was introduced in 1981

And I am not sure on other DC characters.
I am not sure which Marvel characters would have teamed up first either, would it be Spider-Man and the FF or Captain America and the Human Torch or what?

So I guess I was wrong. Sorry about that. As far as I can tell, with the limited info I could get, it looks like DC started the crossover stuff.
I wonder what was the very first crossover, where two characters from different comics or strips guest starred in eachothers.

 

[Joker]

I love how you people have taken a fun little "what if?" thread and turned it into a giant debate about what universes characters live in and comic market crashes...jesus...

 

[Anubis]

Well, tell the guy to stop saying wrong s**t.

 

[Artistsean]

One more to add to the time line, Namor first met Human Torch back in July 1940 I was told.
(Superman and Batman met in May/June of 1952, and Justice Society first appeared in 1940 somewhere between December and March)

anyway,
I posted my "what if" a while ago but am not really sure about any others to post (GL rings needing artist was the only one I have wanted to see for a long time)
So if someone else has a fun idea, doesn't even have to be a good one or one anyone else will like, go on and post it.
There are no wrong answers.

 

[CLARKY]

well, artistsean, all I know is that if I had been in charge when they did the changes, I wouldn't have been so clever. I think Flash (a guy dressed in red and all) is perfect, I think the character is perfect. Me ? I would have change the boots of Jay Garrick, designed a smaller symbol, nothing really drastic. Same for Green Lantern ; I'm glad they changed the characters into what they are today.
Nevertheless, about the GL mythos, I find your idea of having artists in the corps, interesting, but I would have done it with the purity of the being instead. It's how I see the GL corps. It is my biggest problem with current GL (well, not only current)(even if I do love G.Johns stories). The most important thing for a GL is to be pure. Then Hal Jordan is a very pure human being AND is doesn't know fear. THAT makes him the greatest of all. Then, Kyle appears and even if he knows fear and knows how to go beyond, he has amazing imagination. What he "lacks in courage" he has it in imagination. The most brilliant imagination in the universe.
That's how I see things.
happy ?

 

[Artistsean]

I'm always happy.

Don't get me wrong, I love all the characters they way there are and their original versions too (before the revisions)
And like you I probably wouldn't have been so interesting, but maybe I would have who knows.
And I am far from unhappy with the character of Green Lantern. He is one of my favorites.
It just strikes me that anyone who wears the ring and uses it to create things has to have some creativity and artistic ability in them. Maybe not HAS to but they have to have creativity and imagination.
But they never mention how thats important. They mention being fearless and mention purity of the wearer and the ring's weakness to yellow.
I am not saying the current GLs or anything about them is bad, or needs changing, this was just something I would have loved to have been added.
Again, though, its mostly just because I am an artist and I would LOVE to read how artistic ability (any form of creativity and artistic drive) is required to wear the ring.
To me it just seems natural and it would make me feel happy being an artist.

As for your changes to the originals, the costume stuff would be intersting to see.
My brother would like to see the Jay Garret Flash in mostly the same costume, just with red pants instead of blue jean looking pants, and maybe more of a uniform look to his costume I guess.

But character wise, I don't know.

Is Jay Garret related to Flash at all? Like is Jay the uncle or something, maybe all the Flashes are from the same bloodline or something, what about that?

 

[seblopez]

Originally Posted by Anubis:
I don't think you've ever read a single issue of Justice League in your entire life.

Unfortunately, I have...granted, not too many. But I'm convinced Batman SHOULD NEVER, EVER, BE PART OF A SUPERHERO TEAM. Specially not in the "technical genius" role. Batman spend most of his life training for combat; when did he find the time to program A.I. satellite surveillance systems?