Revolution!

[Harlekin]

Okay, we want the Basement alive again? Then we need to tear the place down. Move the RPG's back into the Comics forums or give us a board among the Community section. And no more dividing between 'Marvel', 'DC', 'Other' and every other thing under the sun. There's two sections: 'RPG's running' and 'Archive'.

This section of the Hype is buckling down under its own weight. An 'Approval' board? No more, I say. You've got one section and you put your RPG's in there. Who cares if it gets a little messy? We don't have OCD (okay, maybe a little). Throw those RPG's onto one board. You've got an old thread? Archive that *****.

Every RPG gets two threads: OOC and IC. IC gets a sticky. OOC threads live and die by their own popularity. No more 'general rules' and no more general organisation. Someone wants to propose an RPG? Let them do that, in a different thread, if they wish. It isn't popular? It'll fall down the page. It is popular? Get it up and running.

We've been so focussed on the minutia, we've lost sight of the big picture. This whole structure needs to be torn down. Put the debris in another section (preferably the Comics part). Call it 'Comic RPG's'. Then you've got people thinking: hey, that seems pretty active, what is it about? What's happening there? Cross pollinate that *&^%, because it's getting incestuous down here.

We've been down here too long and we need to be back up there.

 

[Byrd Man]

I agree that **** has become very stagnant down here. We don't get many views compared to the other sub-forums. The hard part is selling it to the mods....but then again, them closing a whole subforum could help them out. Cuts down on bandwith or whatever the **** it is that makes this series of tubes called the internet work.

 

[Harlekin]

The only reason we're down here is because we clogged up the standard Comics boards. Just give us our own beside them. Have Batman police it, like he's done the Basement. We can sell that to the mods. Gives them a chance to clear out some deadwood down here too.

 

[Harlekin]

Who made the poll? I like it.

Vote 'Nah, we're fine' and you're dead to me.

 

[Batman]

Who made the poll? I like it.

That'd be me. Figured that if we wanted to do something to overhaul the forums, it'd be better to get a majority take.

 

[Harlekin]

What's your take on it?

 

[Batman]

Me? I don't really mind either way. Your proposal for it to be put under two categories works fine for me, the only thing that'd kind of mess with is our ability to be our own little corner of Hype - that sense of our own community is way easier to maintain with our own board. But at the same time, I do agree that it might be past time to forgoe the multiple categories and have every IC/OOC under the same section. Given that we're not running a 616 Marvel RPG right now, it wouldn't cause too much clutter to do that and we'd actually seem more like RPG boards that I've seen all across the web.

At the very least, I'd consider cleaning out the boards we already have if for some reason we couldn't move back into the Comics boards or get ourselves a space under Fan-Fiction. The only problem with the latter is that we'd have to have two boards, and that might not sit too well with the powers at be to move it into an existing section. I'll see about it and figure out if there are objections on the side of the admins.

Though I want to get everybody's take first before taking action. I won't vote on the poll either way until we've heard from most of the active players.

 

[wiegeabo]

I'm not going to vote either way quite yet because I have mixed feelings.

All the minutia came about because people were creating and joining games left and right, then getting burnt out and not posting in any of the games, even the established ones.

As for moving out of the basement and into a more public section, I'm fine with that. That's what I've been trying to do with the recruitment threads in the FanFic and Community forums. Just got to get it passed the mods who've had it out for us (despite allowing games in Community where it's nothing but counting to 1000 and back).

Having just two forums, I'm fine with that too. Hell, leave the Archive in the basement with the DTL and Fight Club (funny how Fight Club is so active, being in the basement and all). Just have the RPG forum. Totally agree that all the IC threads should be stickied. I just wish there was a way to do it alphabetically or something.

But, I would prefer to keep this General Discussion forum. The Game forum should just be for the OOC and IC threads.



As for tearing everything down? Other than a game needing approval, what else is there? There's the special vote dealing with the short-term games, ok. But then, all there is is having 1 GM and 2 AGM, having at least 8 interested players...and that's it. Everything else is left up to the gamemasters to run their games with the rules they see fit.

I do think games need to be approved. What's the point of starting a game if there aren't enough interested players to begin with?

I also think players should update the wiki, which none of us do (I know I don't ). But that should really be decided upon on a game by game basis, since not all games need to. If a GM wants his players to update the wiki, then it's their responsibility to make them. Deny their apps until they've done it or something. If they don't want to bother with the wiki, then they get to deal with answering all the continuity issues. But...that's going on a sort of separate rant, so I'll stop now.

 

[Harlekin]

An application system is a system and that is exactly what we need to get away from. It's not welcoming in the least bit. How many people have we seen sign up for the Hype, post a bit, try and get their own RPG's approved, get shot down and disappear?

These are games. We shouldn't be making demands of people. That includes the wiki.

 

[wiegeabo]

It's a system that couldn't be simpler. All we ask is that gamers put a little thought into the game they want to create and see who's interested. As some game apps have shown, there are people who want to create games without even defining the game.

As for getting shot down, that would happen even if they posted an OOC thread rather than an app thread. Don't blame the system for people being negative in posts and shooting ideas down.


Game continuity is a system too. It's up to the GM which they want to use. Do they want to try and remember everything's that's happened in the game to tell new players, or do they want it all there in a wiki to look up any time they forget?

 

[Harlekin]

Yes, the system is simple, but also unnecessarily bureaucratic. And who wants bureaucracy in a game? So, I do blame the system, because at some point we decided there needed to be a system. Someone had to be 'in control'. Do we need people to lead the games? Yes. Do we need people to lead the game board? No. (With all due respect to those who have done so. I just don't think it's working.)

When you start telling they 'need' to do something, you're losing them. We're inviting them to play. An application for a character and some basic rules (based on being good sports) is all we need.

 

[wiegeabo]

Does the bureaucracy involved in creating new games prevent new players from joining existing games?

Did the bureaucracy make you stop playing as much?

The bureaucracy within the games is unchanged and probably wouldn't stop new players from playing anyway (poorly accessible continuity would have much more effect).

And the bureaucracy to create games just formalized what people were doing anyway. People were already posting threads gauging interest in games before we made it mandatory. Part of the reason we decided to formalize it is because people were posting their game ideas in a single thread, and older ideas were getting lost in the discussion of newer ones. So we said each game idea should get its own thread so everyone (old and new) can see them and post their interest.

If anything shuts down new games before they start, it's the posts I've seen in those threads that say a game's been done or other such criticisms. Some I've seen have been downright snarky, to put it politely, and discouraging.

And then we still have the issue of game idea threads getting lost as new threads are created (but I'm not sure what to do about that besides sticky them or maintain a thread with links to all the proposed games, or something).


Rather than worrying about bureaucracy, I'd say it's more important that we stop being discouraging when new players post ideas. If you can't be helpful and supportive, don't post at all. Even if the game has been done before (let's say someone wants a new Transformers game), there's no need to say anything more than prior games have failed, but then still wish them luck and provide some advice, or reasons the old game/ideas failed.

 

[Spike_x1]

*agrees with Wieg*



...


*wants a new Transformers game where people actually post, come up with stories they want to tell, and know more about the franchise than what was in the movies. Otherwise, as we've seen twice now, the game would have no legs at all. *

 

[NiteMare Shape]

Personally, I'm willing to try anything to give the games more life.

 

[Saved]

*agrees with Wieg*



...


*wants a new Transformers game where people actually post, come up with stories they want to tell, and know more about the franchise than what was in the movies. Otherwise, as we've seen twice now, the game would have no legs at all. *

Ummmm ... seconded. I want a Transformers RPG where we're all well aware of at least ONE canon besides the movies. (even though I do like the movies).

 

[wiegeabo]

Personally, I'm willing to try anything to give the games more life.

I say we make the first step moving the game forums out of the basement. Either put it in Community or Fandom (where it probably fits best).

Keep the archive here in the basement. Then copy over this general discussion forum under the new RPG section, and create a Games forum where only the IC and OOC threads are allowed, with the threads stickied like Harl suggested.

As for the RPG section, while I'd hate to create yet another forum, it might be best if there was a forum for all the game ideas. That way the ideas don't get run off onto a second page (at least not very quickly). So, even if it takes a couple of months to generate interest, the game's thread is there for people to see during that time.

So the structure would be

Fandom
(or Community)
|
|
_____________________________
|--------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|
Games--------------------------Discussion
--------------------------------& Approval
---------------------------------|
---------------------------------|
---------------------------------Game Applications
---------------------------------(optional)
​

 

[Harlekin]

I'd prefer we get put back with the Comics people. That's where we'd see the most action. Nobody goes into the Fandom boards.

Finally, I do agree with you that we need to change our attitude towards new players and new ideas. I just see the bureaucracy as a part of that, as a sentiment of 'we run this place'. We need to let a little chaos back in.

 

[twylight]

Haven't been around for a while, but coming back to it... it feels very stale, so I'm all for trying new things. We can't think that the way we set it up, what 4 years age, is still applicable. It's one of those 'at the time' things. At the time, it was needed, wanted, etc. Now... ehh.

I'd rather we go back to the comics too. However I can see how it would be a hard sell since they moved us from there because we clogged it up. But at our current size, I don't think that's a 'problem'

I like the idea of a Comics RPG section under the Comics forum. Throw all the RPG/DTL(or just archive that stuff and delete that forum)/Vs threads in there. It's a forum. Most of us use our CP to track threads anyway, a little 'mess' isn't an issue. Pin one or two easy and comprehensive threads, and collapse the many conversation threads we have into one 'lounge' *shudders at the word*.

If you want an 'approval' area, make it one thread for ideas, presentations etc

Bam. Done.


I also like Wieg's idea. But a refresh isn't bad. Even DC is doing it.

 

[wiegeabo]

If you can convince the mods to let us back into the Comic Books section under our own forum, that's great.

I also agree about combining the conversation threads. Do we really need Flagons, Soapbox, Bulletin Board *coughtwycreateditcough*, the tons of birthday threads, and what not?

As for using the UserCP, that's not going to help newbies find things.

And having just one thread for approvals and ideas means that they'll just get lost in previous pages. And no newb, or even regular, is going to search through it to see if there's an idea they like.



I'll hold off on saying a refresh isn't bad until I see how DC does it

 

[twylight]

If you can convince the mods to let us back into the Comic Books section under our own forum, that's great.

I also agree about combining the conversation threads. Do we really need Flagons, Soapbox, Bulletin Board *coughtwycreateditcough*, the tons of birthday threads, and what not?

I don't see why the Mods would. MB would have to spin his magic well There've been two other RPG sections before this, all at the bottom of the forum and they're defunct now. EML's is before my time, but Mixie moved his off forum, it was pretty slow anyway. They're going to figure, we have a section and should be grateful for that without fussing about where it is.

At the time it was handy and who created the Soapbox, why isn't he getting blamed?

As for using the UserCP, that's not going to help newbies find things.

And having just one thread for approvals and ideas means that they'll just get lost in previous pages. And no newb, or even regular, is going to search through it to see if there's an idea they like.


I'll hold off on saying a refresh isn't bad until I see how DC does it

Just a suggestion in terms of over simplification. If we're going to require more than one forum in the Comics Section it seems to defeat the purpose of simplifying for new people. Having to visit two forums instead of just one?


Go go DC!

 

[wiegeabo]

I don't see why the Mods would. MB would have to spin his magic well There've been two other RPG sections before this, all at the bottom of the forum and they're defunct now. EML's is before my time, but Mixie moved his off forum, it was pretty slow anyway. They're going to figure, we have a section and should be grateful for that without fussing about where it is.

At the time it was handy and who created the Soapbox, why isn't he getting blamed?

Because he's not the one bringing up combining threads he made

Just a suggestion in terms of over simplification. If we're going to require more than one forum in the Comics Section it seems to defeat the purpose of simplifying for new people. Having to visit two forums instead of just one?

Think of how it looks to a newbie as they would navigate the site.

They see the RPG forum in whatever section it's in. They click on it.

They see two forums. One labeled Games (hopefully not too confusing a name ), and one labeled General Discussion (or whatever)

They click on Games and find...all the games.

They click on General Discussion, and they see all the general discussion threads (hopefully not too many now), and see another forum called Game Ideas/Approvals or something.

They click on Games Ideas and see all the proposed games, together in one place (we'll need to keep this clean by archiving proposal threads for accepted games).


Whereas now, if they click on General Discussion, they see 10 pages of threads, with no real rhyme or reason to them except the sticky threads at the top.

Go go DC!

My expectations shall remain low.

 

[wiegeabo]

Basically, if you want things easy for new players, you need to keep forums clean and simple, and threads right in their face.

But because we have so much stuff, the only way to do that is organization. But a couple of extra mouse clicks to navigate well named folders isn't going to be that big a deal. This is the internet, after all. Clicking is ok. Scrolling is the *****.

 

[MST3K 4ever]

I'm in favor anything to make life easier.

 

[wiegeabo]

But don't tell us how to accomplish that

 

[SuperFerret]

Harl makes a lot of good points, especially regarding the new game application process. The most successful game down here is the DC RPG, and that started (quite literally) with one sentence posts and Batman running over a cat. If anything else, let people make their own RPGs and let them stand or fall based on their own merit. All these applications and forms and stuff get too tedious and take away from the fun.

And games are supposed to be fun.