Riots in Missouri - Part 2

[Howlett]

No, it really isn't what I have been saying. You're making a pretty blatant straw man argument right now.

No I'm not.

But that's not what happened.

It isn't? How did black people become slaves in America? I guess those racist white Americans decided they should go to Africa to get slaves to oppress all those black people they knew almost nothing about?

I never said that they didn't have identifying features. I just said that they weren't discriminated against for being white. How is that a controversial statement?

Skin color, not eye color, not hair color, seems to be your go to factor to determine whose oppression matters most.

The point flying WAAAAAY over your head is why does it matter what a group is discriminated against for?

 

[The Question]

It isn't? How did black people become slaves in America? I guess those racist Americans decided they should go to Africa to get slaves to oppress all those black people they knew almost nothing about?

What point are you trying to make here?

Skin color, not eye color, not hair color, seems to be your go to factor to determine whose oppression matters most.

I've never said nor have I implied that anyone's oppression matters more than anyone else's. You could only reach that conclusion by willfully misinterpreting my statements. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Human Torch]

How does any minority succeed if the system is built against them? This isn't 1960. Why people keep spouting out how we still are separate but equal is ignorant. But, so be it if that's the world you tell yourself you live in. Racism will always exist and does in every race/creed/culture. But, tell your children how they are lesser in the eyes of the laws and the majority. Create the next generation of bigots.

Saying it's luck takes away the ingenuity, hard work, and planning. You just said most minorities success in this country is not by any measure but luck.

Poverty is not a racist system. It's socioeconomic...not this topic. There are more poor Caucasians than any other minority in this country.

We aren't talking about gender equality either.

This isn't 1960. Anyone can do anything they want in this country. They will meet racists and bigots along the way from all sides but there is nothing stopping them but themselves from achieving and succeeding.

 

[Howlett]

What point are you trying to make here?

You implied that black people were oppressed for simply being black. I was pointing out the absurdity of that by saying racism began because of slavery and Americans who bought them didn't do so because of the color of their skin.

I've never said nor have I implied that anyone's oppression matters more than anyone else's. You could only reach that conclusion by willfully misinterpreting my statements. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Stop saying them.

 

[The Question]

The point flying WAAAAAY over your head is why does it matter what a group is discriminated against for?

Because it helps us understand exactly what the power imbalance in this country is. Saying "white people have been oppressed too" implies that we exist on a level playing field, and that whites and non-whites have experienced equal amounts of oppression and bigotry in the past and still do so, as well as implying that being white does not come with inherent privileges. This is not the case. "White people" have not been oppressed. Individual Caucasian ethnic groups have been oppressed for reasons that have nothing to do with their whiteness. Being white has never been anything other than an advantage in society.

 

[The Question]

You implied that black people were oppressed for simply being black. I was pointing out the absurdity of that by saying racism began because of slavery and Americans who bought them didn't do so because of the color of their skin.

But in order to justify slavery, the concept of "blackness" and a "black race" was constructed to dehumanize people of African descent and define them as an alien other. It's not irrelevant.

Stop saying them.

Start actually listening to them.

 

[Howlett]

Because it helps us understand exactly what the power imbalance in this country is. Saying "white people have been oppressed too" implies that we exist on a level playing field, and that whites and non-whites have experienced equal amounts of oppression and bigotry in the past and still do so, as well as implying that being white does not come with inherent privileges. This is not the case. "White people" have not been oppressed. Individual Caucasian ethnic groups have been oppressed for reasons that have nothing to do with their whiteness. Being white has never been anything other than an advantage in society.

http://toprightnews.com/?p=3529

On Wednesday, CNN Host Don Lemon posed the question to Oscar winner Morgan Freeman: “Do you think race plays a part in wealth distribution or either a mindset that you can’t?”
Without hesitation, and to Lemon’s surprise, Freeman replied:

“Today? No. You and I…we’re proof.”

​

 

[The Question]

http://toprightnews.com/?p=3529

On Wednesday, CNN Host Don Lemon posed the question to Oscar winner Morgan Freeman: “Do you think race plays a part in wealth distribution or either a mindset that you can’t?”
Without hesitation, and to Lemon’s surprise, Freeman replied:

“Today? No. You and I…we’re proof.”

​

Morgan Freeman is wrong. The numbers prove that race place a significant factor in wealth distribution. A higher percentage of poor people are non-white, and a higher percentage of rich people are white. Race clearly plays a part in wealth distribution. Two people are not proof of anything, they're anecdotal evidence.

 

[Howlett]

But in order to justify slavery, the concept of "blackness" and a "black race" was constructed to dehumanize people of African descent and define them as an alien other. It's not irrelevant.



Start actually listening to them.

Black people are not the only people who have ever been slaves, not even by a long shot. So your idea of Americans constructing a concept to dehumanize black people for slavery is just wrong.

Slavery(of any race) was justified long...LONG before black people were slaves in America. I don't know why you keep insisting black slaves are unique throughout historical context. Oh wait, yes I do.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

So, I'm the only one that gets annoyed when there are parades and stuff too?

I'm not one to protest, I personally feel like there would be better uses of my time in such cases, but if you want to express yourself like that, go for it. It's just the locations of these protests that are baffling. If you're protesting in Albany, NY about something that happened in Ferguson, Missouri, you're protesting to the wrong people.

Well, to be fair Eric Garner was in New York.

And the people protesting, and supporting it, don't believe these are all isolated incidents.

And neither you nor anyone else has answered the repeated question: how is making a traffic disruption out of yourself and just pissing off a bunch of impatient motorists (because let's be real, that's what the result is), supposed to enact social change?

People pissed at you for making them late to work are not going to be sympathetic to you.

The protesters need to come up with some better method.

Well, it's an effort to keep the low attention spans from wandering. We live in a society where people see something is ****ed up, then move on. If people keep getting reminded, they can't forget, and the issue and the need for something to be done remains open instead of it being forgotten and ignored.

Honestly, I'm not sure how to shift things without keeping the issue going by not letting people forget. There aren't many options in getting things changed.

You implied that black people were oppressed for simply being black. I was pointing out the absurdity of that by saying racism began because of slavery and Americans who bought them didn't do so because of the color of their skin.

Why does that matter?

http://toprightnews.com/?p=3529

On Wednesday, CNN Host Don Lemon posed the question to Oscar winner Morgan Freeman: “Do you think race plays a part in wealth distribution or either a mindset that you can’t?”
Without hesitation, and to Lemon’s surprise, Freeman replied:

“Today? No. You and I…we’re proof.”

​

This comes across like a "My black friend..." line.

 

[The Question]

Black people are not the only people who have ever been slaves, not even by a long shot. So your idea of Americans constructing a concept to dehumanize black people for slavery is just wrong.

Slavery(of any race) was justified long...LONG before black people were slaves in America. I don't know why you keep insisting black slaves are unique throughout historical context. Oh wait, yes I do.

I never said that black people were the only people who have ever been slaves.

Yes, slavery has been a thing for a long ****ing time, but in every instance of slavery the people that create the system of slavery create some kind of moral justification for slavery. In ancient Rome it was that slaves were non-Romans, usually ones who had been conquered by Rome in battle, and thus were considered to be less than human. In the days of European feudalism it was because they were peasants and thus beneath the pure blooded aristocracy, or because they belonged to some smaller tribe that spoke a different language and was not associated with the dominant culture in that region. In the case of the Romani people in Wallachia four hundred years ago, it was because they were a culture of nomads and were considered by the Wallachians and most of Europe to be parasites on the economy. Now, of course, none of these things actually justify slavery, but my point is that every system of slavery invents a concept to help them justify the practice by dehumanizing the people they keep as slaves.

I never insisted that black slaves were particularly unique in a historical context. You really need to pay better attention to what I'm writing.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Black people are not the only people who have ever been slaves, not even by a long shot. So your idea of Americans constructing a concept to dehumanize black people for slavery is just wrong.

Slavery(of any race) was justified long...LONG before black people were slaves in America. I don't know why you keep insisting black slaves are unique throughout historical context. Oh wait, yes I do.

Did you read his reply? I think you're putting words in his mouth.

And I don't understand what point you're trying to make. How is supposed to be relevant to American culture and it's history?

 

[Howlett]

I never said that black people were the only people who have ever been slaves.

Yes, slavery has been a thing for a long ****ing time, but in every instance of slavery the people that create the system of slavery create some kind of moral justification for slavery. In ancient Rome it was that slaves were non-Romans, usually ones who had been conquered by Rome in battle, and thus were considered to be less than human. In the days of European feudalism it was because they were peasants and thus beneath the pure blooded aristocracy, or because they belonged to some smaller tribe that spoke a different language and was not associated with the dominant culture in that region. In the case of the Romani people in Wallachia four hundred years ago, it was because they were a culture of nomads and were considered by the Wallachians and most of Europe to be parasites on the economy. Now, of course, none of these things actually justify slavery, but my point is that every system of slavery invents a concept to help them justify the practice by dehumanizing the people they keep as slaves.

I never insisted that black slaves were particularly unique in a historical context. You really need to pay better attention to what I'm writing.

Originally Posted by The Question
But in order to justify slavery, the concept of "blackness" and a "black race" was constructed to dehumanize people of African descent and define them as an alien other. It's not irrelevant.

Why does it matter what they used to justify it. This isn't a new thing as you just acknowledged. Because they are black is not the universal justification.

 

[Howlett]

Why does that matter?

It shouldn't, that's the point.

This comes across like a "My black friend..." line.

I don't know Morgan Freeman.

 

[The Question]

Why does it matter what they used to justify it. This isn't a new thing as you just acknowledged. Because they are black is not the universal justification.

Because it's the justification that was used in the form of slavery that was practiced in America and that justification left an impact on the way that Americans think and the way that our society operates. Slavery in the times of Rome doesn't really have an impact on American race relations.

 

[Howlett]

Because it's the justification that was used in the form of slavery that was practiced in America and that justification left an impact on the way that Americans think and the way that our society operates. Slavery in the times of Rome doesn't really have an impact on American race relations.

See, here's your problem you keep ignoring. Why does the justification matter?

It. does. not. matter. WHY. people. try. to. justify. it. Apparently unless your skin is black, then it REALLY matters.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Why does that matter?

It shouldn't, that's the point.



I don't know Morgan Freeman.

It shouldn't so that's the point? So why bring it up? You're talking in circles...

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

See, here's your problem you keep ignoring. Why does the justification matter?

It. does. not. matter. WHY. people. try. to. justify. it. Apparently unless your skin is black, then it REALLY matters.

So you're saying black people are crybabies?

Wow. Okay...

 

[The Question]

See, here's your problem you keep ignoring. Why does the justification matter?

It. does. not. matter. WHY. people. try. to. justify. it. Apparently unless your skin is black, then it REALLY matters.

Dude, I already said why in the very post you were quoting. They used the socially constructed concept of "blackness" to justify the African slave trade. In doing so, the created the concept of blackness and the "black race," which has left a lasting impact on the way that our society functions and the way that people think about themselves and each other in terms of race.

You're just ignoring my statements at this point.

 

[Howlett]

Dude, I already said why in the very post you were quoting. They used the socially constructed concept of "blackness" to justify the African slave trade. In doing so, the created the concept of blackness and the "black race," which has left a lasting impact on the way that our society functions and the way that people think about themselves and each other in terms of race.

You're just ignoring my statements at this point.

Right, because no one ever saw a black person before then. You're ridiculous.

Tribalism existed since, well caveman tribalism days.

 

[The Question]

Right, because no one ever saw a black person before then. You're ridiculous.

When did I ever say that? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Tribalism existed since, well caveman tribalism days.

A fact which no one here has disputed.

 

[SV Fan]

There are more poor Caucasians than any other minority in this country.

I really hate this argument, sure in sheer numbers there is more white poor people but when 70% of the country is white it's not hard for them to have the sheer numbers in this category. It always seems to me like an argument made to avoid the issue by throwing out statistics without context in hopes that the people listening don't understand why the numbers are the way they are

 

[Howlett]

When did I ever say that? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

Your own words. You say they constructed such a thing, which is beyond ridiculous.

Originally Posted by The Question
But in order to justify slavery, the concept of "blackness" and a "black race" was constructed to dehumanize people of African descent and define them as an alien other. It's not irrelevant.

It is totally irrelevant since every group has used this method to dehumanize the group they were using. Why do you keep ignoring your own point?

 

[Howlett]

When did I ever say that? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?



A fact which no one here has disputed.

Yet here you are saying Americans constructed this idea...

O

riginally Posted by The Question
But in order to justify slavery, the concept of "blackness" and a "black race" was constructed to dehumanize people of African descent and define them as an alien other. It's not irrelevant.

 

[The Question]

Your own words. You say they constructed such a thing, which is beyond ridiculous.

They constructed the concept of a black race. There was no concept of a black race before the slave trade.

It is totally irrelevant since every group has used this method to dehumanize the group they were using. Why do you keep ignoring your own point?

How does that make it irrelevant?

Yet here you are saying Americans constructed this idea...

O

The African Slave trade resulted in the creation of the concept of a black race. I never said that in constructed the more general concept of "those people over there are different so they suck."