Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[MessiahDecoy123]

This is very true, and in the case of Garner (a big man) they chose not to use a weapon on his resistance, and instead employed a choke hold to detain and get cuffs on him. Had he been compliant, that wouldn't have happened. I've said it before, any cases of a black man or any man who complied and did not resist arrest, would get my total support in protest of violence towards them. So far the big national cases, have not been someone innocent that complied. It has been criminals, resisting arrest/attacking/even in recent case pointing a gun at the cop.

So criminals are just animals who deserve to die for simply saying "no, I don't think I should be arrested".

The guy didn't deserve to die, even if he didn't put his arms behind his back.

 

[Howlett]

I don't think that was a chokehold. Otherwise, you're right. They should have simply used their tasers, then cuffed him.

The police just can not win no matter what they do. Let's say they tazed him and he dies of a heart attack(which is what Garner died of, not choking to death or asphyxiation)then people lose their minds and say that they shouldn't have tazed him and could have found a better way to cuff him.

 

[Howlett]

So criminals are just animals who deserve to die for simply saying "no, I don't think I should be arrested".

The guy didn't deserve to die, even if he didn't put his arms behind his back.

Of course he didn't deserve to die, but he put himself in a really bad situation by resisting arrest. And he wouldn't have died if he had put his arms behind his back, that's the whole point...

 

[lc23]

There have been multiple instances of non-blacks committing school-shootings and yet still being portrayed in a vastly more sympathetic light than say...Trayvon Martin who apparently deserved to die for "looking like a thug" in a nice neighbor "where he didn't belong." You can go to school and mass murder students and faculty, but as long as you're not black, people will still trip over themselves to try to preserve your humanity. "He went insane." "He was such a nice, quiet boy. I can't believe this happened." A black guy gets choked to death for selling some cigarettes out on the street: "Oh, well. He shouldn't have resisted arrest."

 

[PacificBoy]

My question is, was the chokehold even warranted in the situation? Yes, Eric Garner was resisting arrest, but from the video, he wasn't threatening the officers with bodily harm, wasn't waving around anything dangerous or carrying a concealed weapon.

I'm curious about the police procedure concerning talking down a suspect in a less-than-dangerous situation. As someone who served in the army, I'm personally okay with the use of excessive force when the going gets dangerous for the uniform, when someone trains a gun on you or rushes you with a knife, when it's merited, but the chokehold was applied pretty much unprovoked.

It seems to me it was a case of needing to expend more time to talk Garner down.

 

[Howlett]

There have been multiple instances of non-blacks committing school-shootings and yet still being portrayed in a vastly more sympathetic light than say...Trayvon Martin who apparently deserved to die for "looking like a thug" in a nice neighbor "where he didn't belong." You can go to school and mass murder students and faculty, but as long as you're not black, people will still trip over themselves to try to preserve your humanity. "He went insane." "He was such a nice, quiet boy. I can't believe this happened." A black guy gets choked to death for selling some cigarettes out on the street: "Oh, well. He shouldn't have resisted arrest."

Those mass shooters didn't resist arrest, they dropped their weapons and gave up, or killed themselves or I can promise you they would have been shot(if they weren't shot, which most, if not all of them were.)

Also, "he was such a nice quiet boy," or "gentle giant," "I can't believe this happened," have been thrown around constantly for every one of these cases. Even when they have an extensive criminal history. So it's definitely not unique to just white criminals.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Again, no one has said that it is. If Garner hadn't been asthmatic and morbidly obese he'd probably still be alive. That, or you know, if he would have just let them place him under arrest and have his day in court or pay his fine.

He'd also be alive if a cop didn't strangle him to death.

He'd be alive if the cops used a lawful form of restraint.

He'd be alive if they allowed the man to breath when he said he couldn't breathe.

Cops should use lethal force when someone is doing something dangerous. Not simply because someone says they don't want to be arrested.

And suspects, especially those who are resisting, will say and do anything to get away. It happens all the time. Also, while screaming "I can't breathe" and resisting implies that you can in fact breathe. If you can't breathe you can't speak and you certainly shouldn't keep resisting.

There were 5 freaking cops grabbing Eric Garner. I think you can let go of his neck without the risk of a illegal cigarette vendor being on the loose.

The choke hold wasn't allowed to begin with. So the cop shouldn't think of the "I can't breath" as an escape ploy, it should instead serve as a reminder that NYPD forbids choke holds. Use another form of restraint.

There are and they do, we just don't ever hear about those cases in the media.

These high profile cases are followed before these cops get away with killing people. You can't blame the media.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

There have been multiple instances of non-blacks committing school-shootings and yet still being portrayed in a vastly more sympathetic light than say...Trayvon Martin who apparently deserved to die for "looking like a thug" in a nice neighbor "where he didn't belong." You can go to school and mass murder students and faculty, but as long as you're not black, people will still trip over themselves to try to preserve your humanity. "He went insane." "He was such a nice, quiet boy. I can't believe this happened." A black guy gets choked to death for selling some cigarettes out on the street: "Oh, well. He shouldn't have resisted arrest."

Who's defending school shooters? I doubt most people would say school shooters like Kip Kinkel, Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, Adam Lanza, and Elliott Rodgers are exactly good people. If anything, they'd probably say they're the worst version of what people can be. Seems you need to get over the race issue and look more into the criminal element of it.

 

[Kar]

The punishment DOES fit the crime. Don't resist arrest and have your day in court if you're innocent. Resist arrest and expect to be forcibly detained. Point a gun expect to be shot at.

This is getting stupid ridiculously obvious to anyone who isn't pro criminal.

"Forcibly detained" = death, huh?

Gotcha.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Of course he didn't deserve to die, but he put himself in a really bad situation by resisting arrest. And he wouldn't have died if he had put his arms behind his back, that's the whole point...

But you can't use lethal force just because someone doesn't want to be arrested.

You still need to apprehend non-compliant suspects in a responsible way.

That's the whole point.

 

[Howlett]

"Forcibly detained" = death, huh?

Gotcha.

No, but obviously it can lead to it. Nice false equivilency though.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The police just can not win no matter what they do. Let's say they tazed him and he dies of a heart attack(which is what Garner died of, not choking to death or asphyxiation)then people lose their minds and say that they shouldn't have tazed him and could have found a better way to cuff him.

It depends on how many times the suspect is tazed.

There is a point where it becomes excessive.

For example if Eric Garner cried out "I have a heart condition" ELEVEN times and the police continue to taze him.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

No, but obviously it can lead to it. Nice false equivilency though.

Correction:

Obviously forbidden choke holds can lead to death.

 

[Kar]

If these cops were given their due punishments there would be no need for these discussions. We're not worried about what the victims did because we're reminded daily that they were standing where they shouldn't have been or had/have criminal records. We're worried about the fact that these cops are getting away with using lethal force on unarmed people. Our frustration comes from the lack of empathy towards these people that were killed. Whether its cause they're black or not, the problem at hand is POLICE BRUTALITY.

 

[lc23]

Those mass shooters didn't resist arrest, they dropped their weapons and gave up, or killed themselves or I can promise you they would have been shot(if they weren't shot, which most, if not all of them were.)

Also, "he was such a nice quiet boy," or "gentle giant," "I can't believe this happened," have been thrown around constantly for every one of these cases. Even when they have an extensive criminal history. So it's definitely not unique to just white criminals.

Verbally resisting arrest is the equivalent of mass murdering now?

Who's defending school shooters? I doubt most people would say school shooters like Kip Kinkel, Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, Adam Lanza, and Elliott Rodgers are exactly good people. If anything, they'd probably say they're the worst version of what people can be. Seems you need to get over the race issue and look more into the criminal element of it.

Nope. It's bigots who need to get over it. So long as there are people who base their treatment of others solely off not only race or ethnicity, but gender, sexuality, etc. stuff like this always be an issue.

 

[chamber-music]

The more you resist, the more suspicious you look. Just let them take you in, keep your mouth shut, and when you are cleared, come back with a lawyer and file a law suit for wrongful arrest. That's the only way to get to these people, through money, because muscle and loud voices is just not going to cut it.

There are a lot of people who can't afford to hire a good lawyer who will take up a wrongful arrest case against the police.

If suing the police for wrongful arrest was easy then everyone would do it.

I don't see many innocent people being ok with the idea of being wrongfully arrested and locked in a cell for hours or possibly being charged for crime they didn't commit.

People have families, jobs and other responsibilities that require their time. They have better places to be than in a jail cell waiting for the police to work out they have arrested the wrong person.

 

[bullets]

If these cops were given their due punishments there would be no need for these discussions. We're not worried about what the victims did because we're reminded daily that they were standing where they shouldn't have been or had/have criminal records. We're worried about the fact that these cops are getting away with using lethal force on unarmed people. Our frustration comes from the lack of empathy towards these people that were killed. Whether its cause they're black or not, the problem at hand is POLICE BRUTALITY.

That's what we should focus on. Whether the use of deadly force was necessary or not. It's a case by case sitiuation. Not all these people should have died.

 

[warhorse78]

There are a lot of people who can't afford to hire a good lawyer who will take up a wrongful arrest case against the police.

If suing the police for wrongful arrest was easy then everyone would do it.

I don't see many innocent people being ok with the idea of being wrongfully arrested and locked in a cell for hours or possibly being charged for crime they didn't commit.

People have families, jobs and other responsibilities that require their time. They have better places to be than in a jail cell waiting for the police to work out they have arrested the wrong person.

Are you effing kidding me? I know over 100 lawyers right here in my county alone who will defend for you for scott free, just for the publicity. Look, we simply do not live in a society where cops should just decide to go, oh well, this guy is resisting arrest, let him go so it won't cause some sort of anguish amongst the people. You know who is one of the most famous people that the cops let go, and he went on to kill more people, Jeffery Dahmer! To think, Konerak Sinthasomphone might still be alive if the cops did look a little more further into Dahmer.

 

[Howlett]

Verbally resisting arrest is the equivalent of mass murdering now?

Who said that? You're the one who brought up the school/mass shooters. The strawman and logical fallacies are really strong around here.

Nope. It's bigots who need to get over it. So long as there are people who base their treatment of others solely off not only race or ethnicity, but gender, sexuality, etc. stuff like this always be an issue.

Right, but you're only a bigot if you're white, right? That seems to be the way this particular argument is going. Because no one else could possibly base their treatment of others based on race or ethnicity or gender or sexuality. Apparently only white people do that.

 

[Doctor Evo]

There are people on both sides of this issue in this thread who are missing the point(s) so spectacularly it causes me to question whether:

1) They actually believe the ******** they're typing,

or

2) They've simply backed themselves into some rhetorical corner and are afraid to admit that they're guilty of committing entirely to faulty reasoning.

 

[Howlett]

There are people on both sides of this issue in this thread who are missing the point(s) so spectacularly it causes me to question whether:

1) They actually believe the ******** they're typing,

or

2) They've simply backed themselves into some rhetorical corner and are afraid to admit that they're guilty of committing entirely to faulty reasoning.

Please feel free to elaborate instead of making drive by accusations.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Please feel free to elaborate.

I'm good, thanks. I don't need the infractions. I will say that the comment appears to have generated the desired response, however.

 

[Howlett]

I'm good, thanks. I don't need the infractions. I will say that the comment appears to have generated the desired response, however.

Oh good, I played right into your secret agenda that you're not at liberty to discuss but happy to point out how you tricked me into it. GENIUS!

 

[Doctor Evo]

Oh good, I played right into your secret agenda that you're not at liberty to discuss but happy to point out how you tricked me into it. GENIUS!

It shouldn't be a secret, and it certainly isn't a trick. There's nothing particularly complicated about what I'm getting at.

But your defensiveness (and apparent, inexplicable confusion) is noted.

 

[Howlett]

It shouldn't be a secret, and it certainly isn't a trick. There's nothing particularly complicated about what I'm getting at.

But your defensiveness (and apparent, inexplicable confusion) is noted.

Once again, boy you sure did got me smart fella! With you're non committal agenda and veiled narrative, you sure are one o' the smart 'uns!
What defensiveness? I'm making fun of your non statements while you're declaring yourself the winner of an argument you're afraid to make.

How about you stop dancing around what you claim you did and actually say something of substance, or you know, you can keep being coy and mysterious and obscure while saying absolutely nothing while trying to sound smart and superior. Totally your call, even if it's on a rotary phone. I'll wait.