Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[BatmanVSuperman]

I think there is an element of racism to make it sound like white men are on a mass murdering epidemic as well. If you look at the stats since 1982 (assuming validity from motherjones website) there is actually a higher proportional rate of black mass murders than whites.

11 of 67 cases were black shooters= 16.42%

44 of 67 cases were white shooters= 65.67%

Population of blacks in USA= 12.6% so the rate is in fact higher proportionally.

Population of whites in USA= 72.4% so the rate is in fact lower proportionally.

The cases for both races considering the population amount are infinitesimal and the media is painting some broad stroke imho.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I think with Garner, the police were cognoscente to the fact that using a gun was out of the question. Also aware of the racial tensions at a peak right now. The next option of a taser they probably feared would still implicate them as being excessive. The final option was, we better jump on this huge guy and restrain him with cuffs. Unfortunately after he resisted, and they had him under control, the obesity factor definitely was in play. He was also a career criminal being arrested 31 times, so out of all those times arrested he was never killed by a cop obviously. I'm sure his resisting had something to do with knowing all of his previous charges wouldn't bide well for his arrest.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Trayvon Martin who apparently deserved to die for "looking like a thug" in a nice neighbor "where he didn't belong."

Some people don't group all of these cases together. You can tout that anyone who believes Brown acted incorrectly and lead to his own death, as being a Fox News watching bigot....... but that would be idiotic.

For example, I think Zimmerman went way across the line and wasn't even a cop and the Trayvon situation was totally different and a shame. Yet, you may assume I automatically lump all these cases as one.

Is there something wrong with looking at the evidence and determining as many facts as possible before protesting a situation?

I wouldn't want an innocent man killed, but I also wouldn't want an innocent cop strung up.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Sweet Jesus.

 

[Docker2.0]

There are people on both sides of this issue in this thread who are missing the point(s) so spectacularly it causes me to question whether:

1) They actually believe the ******** they're typing,

or

2) They've simply backed themselves into some rhetorical corner and are afraid to admit that they're guilty of committing entirely to faulty reasoning.

Agreed! I'd be the first to admit I may have said somethings I regret because all of this time I thought Brown had a record but evidently he didn't......but still not sure. But some people say the craziest crap and paint a broad brush over an entire scope of people and can't see the forest because of the trees.

 

[PacificBoy]

I think with Garner, the police were cognoscente to the fact that using a gun was out of the question. Also aware of the racial tensions at a peak right now. The next option of a taser they probably feared would still implicate them as being excessive. The final option was, we better jump on this huge guy and restrain him with cuffs. Unfortunately after he resisted, and they had him under control, the obesity factor definitely was in play. He was also a career criminal being arrested 31 times, so out of all those times arrested he was never killed by a cop obviously. I'm sure his resisting had something to do with knowing all of his previous charges wouldn't bide well for his arrest.

Again, the question is whether the hold was excessively applied. It's one thing to apply the hold initially to take him down when he was physically resisting arrest, it's quite another to continue the hold when he was on the ground and seemingly already subdued.

When the other officers also said "alright, he's down", Eric Garner's left arm was locked behind his back while his right was extended out with palm open -- he looked like he already ceased struggling. Yet the hold was still being applied.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Sweet Jesus.

Your contributions to threads are really in depth.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Again, the question is whether the hold was excessively applied. It's one thing to apply the hold initially to take him down when he was physically resisting arrest, it's quite another to continue the hold when he was on the ground and seemingly already subdued.

When the other officers also said "alright, he's down", Eric Garner's left arm was locked behind his back while his right was extended out with palm open -- he looked like he already ceased struggling. Yet the hold was still being applied.

We can focus on the hold. Just like we can focus on the severity of Brown's attack on Wilson. Or, if Martin was really a threat by pointing his gun at a cop. I'd say in all these specific cases though, had they complied there would have been no excessive force. Even if it were someone innocent, a cop may want to cuff a potential subject while sorting out the situation. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Your contributions to threads are really in depth.

I was disappointed to find out you're one of those...Ignored list.

Good day, sir.

 

[Doctor Evo]

But some people say the craziest crap and paint a broad brush over an entire scope of people and can't see the forest because of the trees.

Precisely, and that goes for both "sides" of this debate to be perfectly frank. I've also never seen such a rampant use of the strawman as I have in this thread.

It's incredible - and disappointing.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Once again, boy you sure did got me smart fella! With you're non committal agenda and veiled narrative, you sure are one o' the smart 'uns!
What defensiveness? I'm making fun of your non statements while you're declaring yourself the winner of an argument you're afraid to make.

How about you stop dancing around what you claim you did and actually say something of substance, or you know, you can keep being coy and mysterious and obscure while saying absolutely nothing while trying to sound smart and superior. Totally your call, even if it's on a rotary phone. I'll wait.

Yes, you will.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I was disappointed to find out you're one of those...Ignored list.

Good day, sir.

You sir are passive aggressive.

 

[PacificBoy]

We can focus on the hold. Just like we can focus on the severity of Brown's attack on Wilson. Or, if Martin was really a threat by pointing his gun at a cop. I'd say in all these specific cases though, had they complied there would have been no excessive force. Even if it were someone innocent, a cop may want to cuff a potential subject while sorting out the situation. There is nothing wrong with that.

I agree there's nothing wrong in needing to cuff a potential subject, but I'm not talking about whether any force should be used in the first place. I'm talking about the excessiveness of the hold in Eric Garner's case, specifically. Not Brown, not Martin.

I'm all for excessive force used in the appropriate situations. From the video footage, this isn't one of them IMO.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yes, you will.

 

[Howlett]

Yes, you will.

That's what I thought.

 

[Doctor Evo]

That's what I thought.

There's a first time for everything, I suppose.

 

[Howlett]

There's a first time for everything, I suppose.

It'll happen for you one day, I'm sure. It's ok, just keep trying your best in the meantime.

 

[Doctor Evo]

It'll happen for you one day, I'm sure. It's ok, just keep trying your best in the meantime.

I'm less offended by the sentiment than I am by how weak this comeback was. Jesus, you had all that time, and this is what I get? At least make this fun.

Anyway, I have to cut this short. I was infracted for my last post in this thread (because the mods on this site hate fun...and puppies, and sunshine, and anything generally considered enjoyable), so I should probably back off.

 

[Howlett]

I'm less offended by the sentiment than I am by how weak this comeback was. Jesus, you had all that time, and this is what I get? At least make this fun.

Anyway, I have to cut this short. I was infracted for my last post in this thread (because the mods on this site hate fun...and puppies, and sunshine, and anything generally considered enjoyable), so I should probably back off.

Unlike you, I don't sit here all day and try to think up witty comebacks and non responses to appear witty on an internet message board. That was my five second response.

Your reaction tells me all I need to know. Your defensiveness (and apparent, inexplicable confusion) is duly noted.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Unlike you, I don't sit here all day and try to think up witty comebacks and non responses to appear witty on an internet message board. That was my five second response.

Your reaction tells me all I need to know. Your defensiveness (and apparent, inexplicable confusion) is duly noted.

I don't think any of those words mean what you think they mean.

I mean, yeah, now I'm confused.

 

[Howlett]

I don't think any of those words mean what you think they mean.

I mean, yeah, now I'm confused.

That's funny since most of those words were copy and pasted from your own post and thrown back in your face.

You may not be a stupid Dr., you just play one on the internet when it suits your (non)argument.

I can break it down for you, I suppose...

I'm less offended by the sentiment than I am by how weak this comeback was. Jesus, you had all that time, and this is what I get? At least make this fun.

I didn't have all that time. I didn't sit here all day thinking about a witty comeback to your lame comments. You're not as clever as you think you are. You get as good as you give, and you aren't bringing much.

Anyway, I have to cut this short. I was infracted for my last post in this thread (because the mods on this site hate fun...and puppies, and sunshine, and anything generally considered enjoyable), so I should probably back off.

Yeah, that can be confusing too. Some things are so very difficult to figure out. Maybe you should get someone to help you with that. What happened to cutting it short? I thought you had to go back off or something, plaything.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Some of you on both sides really seem to lack respect for other people having another perspective. There may be some people who truly believe the cops go too far and deserve the bashing from media they get. There may be others who think these specific cases are not good examples, because criminals were not acting in compliance. If you really want black and white relations to improve, you can't demonize people for having different opinions. It is very hard to more forward with one sides bits of arguing. Nobody can change anybody's opinion on anything. It seems to be more of a practice in debate, and sticking to own mindset.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

You sir are passive aggressive.

Don't bite. The "Sweet Jesus" post was pretty much asking you to flip out by invalidating your posts/opinions. Nothing against you Jackson, but that was kind of cheap

 

[Howlett]

And here's another reason why people don't take the "peaceful protesters" seriously.

http://news.yahoo.com/protester-st-louis-area-charged-arson-204951252.html

BERKELEY, Mo. (AP) — A protester who advocated for peaceful demonstrations in Ferguson was charged Saturday with setting fire to a convenience store in a neighboring suburb.

A St. Louis County jail official said Joshua Williams, 19, of St. Louis, was being held on $30,000 bond. He is charged with arson, second-degree burglary and stealing less than $500.

Williams, who was frequently quoted and photographed protesting Michael Brown's death, is accused of using lighter fluid to set multiple fires inside and outside a QuikTrip in Berkeley. Court records said Williams confessed in a videotaped interview, and that his actions were captured by surveillance video and by news media.

The QuikTrip was looted after a white Berkeley police officer shot and killed Antonio Martin, a black 18-year-old, late Tuesday at a nearby gas station. Separate surveillance footage appeared to show that before the shooting, Martin pulled a gun on the unidentified 34-year-old officer.
St. Louis County police spokesman Shawn McGuire said it wasn't immediately known if Williams had an attorney. Williams didn't immediately return a phone message.

Williams has been arrested at least twice during Ferguson-related protests for unlawful assembly as well as refusal to disperse.
An MSNBC profile of Williams in September quoted him as saying, "We have to come together as one and show them we can be peaceful, that we can do this. If not, they're going to just want us to act up so they can pull out their toys on us again."

During a Ferguson Commission meeting earlier this month, Williams said black people should be able to walk into stores without being followed around like thieves.
"When the police go out there in their uniforms, they don't see nothing but thugs," he said. "All they see is targets in the streets."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...n-activist-arson-burglary-20141227-story.html

Some activists gathered outside the St. Louis County Justice Center on Friday and Saturday to protest his arrest.
"Josh is one of the young activists, and all of us have taken close to him. We got to know his heart, and he got to know ours," Bishop Derrick Robinson, of Kingdom Destiny Fellowship International told the St. Louis Post Dispatch. "He's a great kid, an educated kid, a child who knows what he wants and is very active in the community."

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The hypocrisy here is staggering. Also he confessed and was on video, yet protesters went to the jail to demand his release. When you support and defend people who couldn't be more guilty, your credibility goes entirely out the window for any other cases where it might actually be questionable.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

The hypocrisy here is staggering. Also he confessed and was on video, yet protesters went to the jail to demand his release. When you support and defend people who couldn't be more guilty, your credibility goes entirely out the window for any other cases where it might actually be questionable.

Honestly I think Barkley had a point that the protesting in the Brown cases started before enough information was out. This kind of put some of the protestors in a collective "all in" situation. It ended up with an us vs the world mentality. It continues with the other stories put out by the press. Anytime a cop is involved with a shooting now, some of those that protested on Brown's behalf had automatically grouped the unrelated case with their cause. It's a very tense situation for sure because there are as other point out, specific black civil rights issues contributing to how some interpret these stories.