Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[MessiahDecoy123]

There have been multiple links posted on this subject from the FBI and other sources. I'm not going to search through them all for you. Is your Google broken?

Post some links.

If it's so easy to find police shooting data then show me.

I'm asking you where your source is.

It's easy to say it's all over google. I could say there's proof of aliens on google.

So either post some links or admit that no government agency tracks national police shooting data.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Tell it to the Supreme Court then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City#cite_note-guardianuk1-1

The supreme court case is ongoing.

The federal judge who ruled that stop and frisk was unconstitutional was re-assigned for some weird reason.

Nice try though.

And oh look, it's quite effective.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/murders-violent-crime-new-york-article-1.2031267

Violent crime and murders have fallen to historic lows this year, Mayor de Blasio announced Tuesday. Major crime has dipped 4.4% so far this year, compared to the same period last year. And there have been 290 murders, down from 311 last year — a 6.8% drop that puts the city on pace to end the year with the fewest murders ever.

Do you realize how many people had their constitutional rights trampled to get your measly 4 percent drop in crime?

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Why not illegally search millions of people and get the drop to 8 percent?

A complete police state might even get the drop to 15 percent!

Illegal house raids, wiretaps and random strip searches for all Americans...

Howlett's perfect America is around the corner!

 

[Thundercrack85]

Howlett, do you think the police have any role in the African Americans' overwhelmingly negative perception of them? Or do black people just have an irrational dislike for police?

You sound like you should be working for the police union.

Lifetimes of systematic abuse, harassment, killings, and threats from the New York Police Department, and it's the mayor who is putting targets on cops' backs.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

Hey everybody,

So I've been a SuperHeroHype member since 2005 under a different screenname. When all the national news media frenzy started back in August with the Michael Brown killing, I created a different screenname (the generic "Ilikecomics123") in order to just post solely about police related matters on the "Riots in Missouri" thread and "Abuse of Power" thread. I figured, since I'm a police officer since 2010, I could shed some light on how law enforcement works and what being a police officer is really like.

Since posting on these threads for a few months now, I've decided it's time to move on and just stop posting.

It's getting old... and just plain frustrating...

I read every page of both threads and honestly it's just tiring and exhausting. It's a constant back-and-forth back-and-forth between the police sympathizers and the anti-police sentiment.

Neither agree... so what's the point?

The idea of "We need to have this discussion in order to work together and find common ground" is just not paying off...

Every time I post information about my experiences and what it's really like being a cop, I just have some poster on here disagree with me and throw a bunch of news stories links at me about how bad the police are and some statistics they found off Google in order to disagree with me.

Are there bad cops out there? Sure!

Are there horrible people out there in the world in general? Yep! All over, in every profession, of every race, nationality, gender, religion, etc...

So I've come to one simple conclusion, one honest truth...

if you disagree with the police, don't like the police, hate the police... then you should quit your job, apply to police departments, get hired, get through academy, make it through field training, and then do the job yourself.

Seriously though, think about it...

I'm a cop. So if I went up to a doctor and all I did was whine and moan and complain and protest about how that doctor (and all doctors like him) do their job.... eventually I would expect the doctor to just ignore me because he's the doctor, and I'm not, and why should he have to listen to me?

And that's kinda how I feel...

Actually, no, that's how I feel...

I'm tired of telling the anti-police people "this is how it is being a cop", and then they say "NO ITS NOT! I KNOW WHAT THE POLICE ARE LIKE! ME! I KNOW! ME, THE GUY WHO DOES NOT WORK IN LAW ENFORCEMENT! I KNOW! I KNOW MORE THAN YOU!"

Sigh....

So tonight at work (2:30pm to 11:30pm) we had a 4-car vehicle collision...

...a robbery in which a female coerced a male into meeting her. The male complied only to find out the female had two other males waiting for him, so they beat the crap out of him and stole his belongings...

...another robbery in which two suspects approached a victim, pointed a gun at him, and demanded his phone. The victim refused. So the suspect shot him in the chest... Suspects then fled. Victim got a nice hole in his chest.

...right after that, another robbery in which 5 suspects beat the crap out a victim and stole his phone.... victim's face was totally busted...

and a ton of miscellaneous calls in-between all of those major ones (disorderly conduct calls, alarms, thefts, stolen vehicles, etc.)

So I care about the community I serve...

I'm not racist, even though all the people I serve are a different color than me...

I do the best I can to be fair, even-handed, but at the same time, I want to put away the criminals and make the community a better place...

But I also go to work every time thinking "If I roll up on one of these calls, and the suspects have NOT fled yet, and they point their gun at me, or they decide to try to bust up my face.... yeah, not happening"

If they point a gun at me, I'm shooting them. My last day and night qualifications were 95% each so I'm confident I can hit them.

If they try to beat me up, as soon as I think I might lose consciousness, I'm shooting them. End of story.

I have a wife at home. I like my life. I'm not losing it.

So one of these days, maybe even tomorrow night (when I work again), some thug (AND YES THEY ARE THUGS PLAIN AND SIMPLE) might try to shoot me or beat me to a pulp.

And when they do, they're going to die. Not me.

I'll probably only be given a split second to make that decision, and guess what, I'm going to choose ME to live, not the thug.

And then guess what?

You'll all find out who I am because my article will be on CNN or MSNBC or POLICEONE.COM or some anti-police/anti-establishment website and then everyone here can play Monday morning quarterback and disagree over whether or not my actions were "justified" or "too aggressive" or "excessive" or "blatantly racist!!! call al sharpton!!"

And the thug's mom will be on tv crying about how her son with prior charges for armed carjacking, armed robbery, assault, etc was such a good little boy with so much potential and always put smiles on people's faces.

And then the twitterverse and facebook will gobble up the story of me shooting someone and everybody will have such important, earth-shattering opinions of it, because nowadays with social media everybody is an expert in everything and everybody's opinions matter so much....

Then everyone will say, oh that cop, that cop Ilikecomics123, he's such a horrible person. He's dirty. He's crooked. He's just as bad as the criminals.

So the thug was unarmed and only beating on Ilikecomics123? Oh Ilikecomics123 should not have used deadly force on the poor poor thug... what's the big deal? Taking a beating is not so bad. It's just fists. No big deal. It's like a bee-sting. It'll heal quick.

Oh, Ilikecomics123 was losing consciousness, you say? Or the thug was 200lbs heavier than Ilikecomics123 and his blows were causing Ilikecomids123 to black out? Oh, no big deal there either. I'm sure the poor likable thug was only going to beat Ilikecomics123 until he passed out and then kindly kiss him on the cheek and say "fare thee well, good sir"

Oh, Ilikecomics123 shot the poor friendly thug because he committed an armed robbery and when Ilikecomics123 found him the poor friendly thug refused to listen to directions and reached inside his waistband? OH NO! Ilikecomics123 shot him and the poor friendly thug DIDNT HAVE A GUN??? Oh Ilikecomics123 should have used his psychic powers to know that the poor friendly thug didn't have a gun even though the caller who called 911 told the police dispatcher he did have gun and did commit an armed robbery and Ilikecomics123 has stopped people, plenty of them, who hide guns inside their waistband, BUT IN THIS SOLE SINGLE CASE, Ilikecomics123 should have known with his psychic powers that poor friendly thug was not armed this time and he was simply reaching into his waistband to pull out a beautiful flower to give to Ilikecomics123 as a sign of peace and trust....

Oh, Ilikecomics123 gave 5 traffic tickets, did 2 terry frisks, and had 1 arrest today and all the people involved were African-American? And Ilikecomics123 is WHITE??? Oh, Ilikecomics123 is racist for sure... even though Ilikecomics123 works in an area where THERE ARE NO WHITE PEOPLE! NONE, ZILCH, ZIP, NADA! Yep, Ilikecomics123 is racist for sure...he's unfairly targeting African-Americans. He needs to somehow bus in white people so he can somehow change his statistics involving traffic, stops, and arrests and make them look not so racist....

Oh, Ilikecomics123 encountered an African-American suspect who pulled a gun and pointed it at him and Ilikecomics123 shot him. But then the next day, Ilikecomics123 encountered a white female suspect who pointed a gun at him and he didn't shoot her? Although we have NO IDEA what happened in either encounter and have no idea the multitude of reasons why the black suspect got shot but the white female didn't, we will conclude Ilikecomics123 is just plain ol' KKK racist again. Yep, he certainly is...

Oh, Ilikecomics123 encountered a suspect who pulled a gun and pointed it at him but Ilikecomics123 DID NOT USE HIS DEPARTMENT ISSUED TASER to subdue the suspect? What a horrible cop Ilikecomics123 is!!!! Ilikecomics123 should have known that a taser is an appropriate response to handguns which fire bullets. Tasers are the end-all-be-all of law enforcement use of force and tasers should be used against all handgun encounters... because everybody knows tasers NEVER miss, NEVER malfunction, PENETRATE any amount of clothing, ALWAYS subdue every person on God's green earth...

Oh, Ilikecomics123 tased someone and they had a heart attack and died due to the taser??? Ilikecomics123 is a MURDERER. And the suspect was black? Oh, Ilikecomics123 is a MURDERER and a RACIST. What was the reason for tasering the suspect? He was under arrest and resisting? Who cares? Crime doesn't matter!!! What matters is you killed a guy by tasering him and because of his past medical history of heart problems, Ilikecomics123 should have used his psychic powers again to know that the electrical discharge from a taser could have killed him....

Man, I could go on and on and on, but Ilikecomics123 sounds like a crooked dirty no-good, filthy cop.

I (the anti-police protester) have never been a cop, but I definitely know Ilikecomics123 is a scumbag...

And all the cops he works with are dirty too...

And the criminals need protection from them...

And these things are the things I think and I feel, but I'm definitely not going to become a cop myself ... no way ... never ever ...

because, what if, I then found myself on MSNBC or CNN?

No, no, no... never... I (the anti-police protester) would never ever make a split second decision that would ever be seen as ANYTHING but completely justified and beautiful and reasonable and amazing in the hearts and minds of all people...

...


...


...

Any ways, thanks for the lively discussion on this thread and the "Abuse of Power" thread.

I'm out.

It's 3:45am and I got to go back to work at 2:30pm so I can go deal with more robberies and shootings.

Ya'll have a good one and keep on discussing whether or not I'm doing the right or wrong because I'm arresting too many African-Americans in a 100% African-American populated community....

Or if I'm getting beat up, I should, you know, just "take it like a man" or something because I didn't feel like being punched in the head anymore so I shot the suspect...

Or, you know, if a suspect grabs my gun or something, I should, you know, just give it to him, like a gift or something. Maybe wrap it up with a bow first before letting him have it...

Ya'll let me know what you collectively decide...

Peace out!

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think everyone who has had bad experiences with lawyers and/or distrust lawyers should run to law school.

I also wouldn't change my opinion on lawyers because a lawyer came onto the hype to explain various examples of lawyers doing good things when my experiences are mostly contradictory.

There are people who dislike lawyers, politicians and police.

You can't expect everyone to fully support those persons because you post a few job logs on the internet.

People don't learn to distrust the police overnight and they're not going to become police advocates overnight.

Sorry you didn't get the results you wanted but I think you expected the opposition to bend way too easily.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Edit

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So you're at a video game forum in the general news section.

You're bad mouthing politicians because:

1) A politician double crossed you

2) You see politicians backstab people everyday in endless hidden camera videos

3) You read statistical data that shows how corrupt politicians can often be.

But then ILikeVideoGames123 comes on and says "I'm a congressman and we have a bad wrap just the other day I ended some pork barrel spending..."

Do you just ignore experience, video evidence and statistics because of a politician's testimony?

If so, why?

 

[Howlett]

Post some links.

I, and others already have, in this very thread.

If it's so easy to find police shooting data then show me.

We have. You're either not paying attention or have willfully ignored them.

I'm asking you where your source is.

It's easy to say it's all over google. I could say there's proof of aliens on google.

So either post some links or admit that no government agency tracks national police shooting data.

It's already been done. I'm not doing it again for you to just have you gloss over or just plain ignore again.

 

[Howlett]

So you're at a video game forum in the general news section.

You're bad mouthing politicians because:

1) A politician double crossed you

2) You see politicians backstab people everyday in endless hidden camera videos

3) You read statistical data that shows how corrupt politicians can often be.

But then ILikeVideoGames123 comes on and says "I'm a congressman and we have a bad wrap just the other day I ended some pork barrel spending..."

Do you just ignore experience, video evidence and statistics because of a politician's testimony?

If so, why?

Because you're cherry picking and using small numbers and percentages to claim/verify your assumption/narrative/agenda that most or all are corrupt.

Everything can and should be taken on a case by case basis.

 

[Kelly]

Good grief guys, how long have y'all been going in circles? lol

 

[Docker2.0]

Good grief guys, how long have y'all been going in circles? lol

Ain't no quitters here!!

 

[Feenix]

I don't think everyone who has had bad experiences with lawyers and/or distrust lawyers should run to law school.

I also wouldn't change my opinion on lawyers because a lawyer came onto the hype to explain various examples of lawyers doing good things when my experiences are mostly contradictory.

There are people who dislike lawyers, politicians and police.

You can't expect everyone to fully support those persons because you post a few job logs on the internet.

People don't learn to distrust the police overnight and they're not going to become police advocates overnight.

Sorry you didn't get the results you wanted but I think you expected the opposition to bend way too easily.

You proved his point with this post. You're completely biased one way and it sounds like nothing will change your mind. This guy is actually a cop and has provided you with the other side of the story and you completely shut it down. He tried to open a dialogue with you, but you're too far gone. Nothing the police do will ever be good enough for you.

How can you possibly judge him when he's based his opinions off of his experiences, which is EXACTLY what you've done?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You proved his point with this post. You're completely biased one way and it sounds like nothing will change your mind. This guy is actually a cop and has provided you with the other side of the story and you completely shut it down. He tried to open a dialogue with you, but you're too far gone. Nothing the police do will ever be good enough for you.

How can you possibly judge him when he's based his opinions off of his experiences, which is EXACTLY what you've done?

I didn't completely shut him down. He's the one who said goodbye.

I've had many exchanges with him,many of which where I actually asked honest questions.

But you guys expect everyone to stop criticizing the police because one cop post his views on the interwebs.

I guess you just need to accept there are people who will always be critical of the police and those who will always blindly support them even in cases like Eric Garner or Rodney King.

 

[cronosred]

Don't whine and complain about getting lumped together in a group because of the actions of others when you go and do the exact same thing. No matter how you try to justify it you just end up coming off as a hypocrite.

 

[Docker2.0]

Don't whine and complain about getting lumped together in a group because of the actions of others when you go and do the exact same thing. No matter how you try to justify it you just end up coming off as a hypocrite.

I don't know if that goes for violent blacks, racist whites, or cops but agreed for all groups.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Don't whine and complain about getting lumped together in a group because of the actions of others when you go and do the exact same thing. No matter how you try to justify it you just end up coming off as a hypocrite.

I guess there's no difference between a person saying they're against abusive police practices and saying they're against police in general.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

and there's a difference between I distrust lawyers/politicians/police and I distrust Jews/blacks/Latinos.

Last time I checked races don't have job requirements people can disagree with.

 

[Howlett]

I guess there's no difference between a person saying they're against abusive police practices and saying they're against police in general.

I guess there's no difference between a person saying they're against "peaceful protesters" who loot and burn businesses and saying they're against all protesters in general.

 

[Howlett]

and there's a difference between I distrust lawyers/politicians/police and I distrust Jews/blacks/Latinos.

Last time I checked races don't have job requirements people can disagree with.

What exactly are you trying to say here?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What exactly are you trying to say here?

Some say disliking the police based on the actions bad police is the same as disliking an entire race based on a stereotype.

But cops have job requirements that someone can dislike for valid reasons.

A race doesn't have requirements. So there's no valid reason to dislike an entire race since individuals from that race haven't all agreed to the same terms.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm not sure who in this thread you think is disputing that.

 

[Schlosser85]

Quite frankly, responsibility has to be taken on both sides.

Police corruption and brutality should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But at the same time, there comes a time when the lower class urban black community needs to man up and pull their kids' pants up, teach them to speak English, and stop blaming whitey or the cops for when their hoodlum son pulls a gun on a cop and big surprise, gets shot.

This goes both ways.

You can't blame others for all of eternity for the state of your neighborhood if you want to improve yourselves.

Martin Luther King did not sit around on his ass saying welp, The Man keeps me down, so I'm gonna just sit here and shut up.

He also didn't go around blaming white people for every problem ever like his bastard children Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

He got people off their ass, united, and proactive without setting cars on fire or looting stores.

And frankly I think he'd be pretty sad at a lot of what he'd see today.

 

[Kelly]

@ Messiah....

I understand where you are coming from, but what I am seeing, and have seen for quite awhile is that "jumping to conclusions" without all the evidence seems to be the way to see things today when it comes to the police.

We can say sit in our homes and watch the news (which these days isn't exactly the unbiased finder of truth that it use to be) and come to conclusions that may not exactly jive with the facts. We are not walking in the shoes of the officers day in and day out, we are not having to make split second decisions that could mean our lives, and the lives of others.

We can say that YES, "some" cops are just "bad"...
We can say that YES, "some" cops are "racist"...
We can say that YES, "some" cops are take things "too far"...

We can say that the cop could have/should have done this or that...

But, in the end if we are not basing our opinions on the facts of the evidence, then when someone calls bias on us....well they are correct.

I think this is seen in the very fact that the Brown and Garner case are somehow equal in showing officer misconduct, which just is not following the facts.

From what I have read of "all" of the eyewitness accounts and looking at "all 3 autopsies" and reading "all of the evidence that was presented to the Grand Jury"...they got it right.

From what I have seen of the video of the Garner case, UNLESS some expert came in and truly gave an engaging, specific, evidence that that was NOT a choke hold, and even then, I'm not sure....from what I've seen, the Grand Jury got it wrong. But in neither case am I ready to condemn the fraternity of officers as a whole by any stretch of the imagination, and it is ignorant in my opinion to come even close to painting with that general brush.

What I have gotten out of this, even with the video seemingly meaning nothing in the Garner case, ALL OFFICERS should wear a camera, and I am happy to know that here in Houston THAT IS EXACTLY what will be happening in 2015.

It just seems that cases like the Zimmerman case, Brown Case, Garner Case seem to all be brought up in the same category....black vs. white, and I'm sorry, but that is just ignorant, they are all very different, and when the facts are looked at, people may disagree with the outcome (as I do with the Garner case), but the process is the process, and really only in the Brown case which is very much unprecedented have we totally seen all of the evidence, or if you were crazy like me and watched all of the Zimmerman Trial....can I say that IMO, with as much of the facts as possible, the Zimmerman Jury got it right/the DA went for the wrong indictment....The Wilson Grand Jury got it right, and the Garner Grand Jury got it wrong. AND SADLY IN ALL 3 people died that had people all the way around made the "right decisions" would still be alive.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Quite frankly, responsibility has to be taken on both sides.

Police corruption and brutality should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But at the same time, there comes a time when the lower class urban black community needs to man up and pull their kids' pants up, teach them to speak English, and stop blaming whitey or the cops for when their hoodlum son pulls a gun on a cop and big surprise, gets shot.

This goes both ways.

You can't blame others for all of eternity for the state of your neighborhood if you want to improve yourselves.

Martin Luther King did not sit around on his ass saying welp, The Man keeps me down, so I'm gonna just sit here and shut up.

He also didn't go around blaming white people for every problem ever like his bastard children Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

He got people off their ass, united, and proactive without setting cars on fire or looting stores.

And frankly I think he'd be pretty sad at a lot of what he'd see today.

I think MLK would disapprove of looting and rioting but also denounce many of the police tactics and abusive practices.

As far as black youth "pulling up their pants and learning to speak English" this is a conflict between culture and assimilation. Yeah some of the black youth culture is flat out stupid but complete assimilation is not really an option either.

These black youth need an identity separate from white suburbia. As with any subculture some traditions seem ignorant or silly but they must evolve without some outside influence co-opting it.

That defeats the point of having your own cultural identity and whites instructing blacks how to behave will only strengthen their resolve to keep rebellious costums ingrained within the subculture.

But it is a constant cycle. Blacks rebels against white institutions because of racism and whites justify their racist beliefs because of this rebellion.

I'm not sure the cycle will ever end. Both sides have their heels dug in pretty deep.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

@ Messiah....

I understand where you are coming from, but what I am seeing, and have seen for quite awhile is that "jumping to conclusions" without all the evidence seems to be the way to see things today when it comes to the police.

We can say sit in our homes and watch the news (which these days isn't exactly the unbiased finder of truth that it use to be) and come to conclusions that may not exactly jive with the facts. We are not walking in the shoes of the officers day in and day out, we are not having to make split second decisions that could mean our lives, and the lives of others.

We can say that YES, "some" cops are just "bad"...
We can say that YES, "some" cops are "racist"...
We can say that YES, "some" cops are take things "too far"...

We can say that the cop could have/should have done this or that...

But, in the end if we are not basing our opinions on the facts of the evidence, then when someone calls bias on us....well they are correct.

I think this is seen in the very fact that the Brown and Garner case are somehow equal in showing officer misconduct, which just is not following the facts.

From what I have read of "all" of the eyewitness accounts and looking at "all 3 autopsies" and reading "all of the evidence that was presented to the Grand Jury"...they got it right.

From what I have seen of the video of the Garner case, UNLESS some expert came in and truly gave an engaging, specific, evidence that that was NOT a choke hold, and even then, I'm not sure....from what I've seen, the Grand Jury got it wrong. But in neither case am I ready to condemn the fraternity of officers as a whole by any stretch of the imagination, and it is ignorant in my opinion to come even close to painting with that general brush.

What I have gotten out of this, even with the video seemingly meaning nothing in the Garner case, ALL OFFICERS should wear a camera, and I am happy to know that here in Houston THAT IS EXACTLY what will be happening in 2015.

It just seems that cases like the Zimmerman case, Brown Case, Garner Case seem to all be brought up in the same category....black vs. white, and I'm sorry, but that is just ignorant, they are all very different, and when the facts are looked at, people may disagree with the outcome (as I do with the Garner case), but the process is the process, and really only in the Brown case which is very much unprecedented have we totally seen all of the evidence, or if you were crazy like me and watched all of the Zimmerman Trial....can I say that IMO, with as much of the facts as possible, the Zimmerman Jury got it right/the DA went for the wrong indictment....The Wilson Grand Jury got it right, and the Garner Grand Jury got it wrong. AND SADLY IN ALL 3 people died that had people all the way around made the "right decisions" would still be alive.

My generalizations of the police may be too broad but I think I have a valid reason to distrust people who agree to certain terms when accepting the duties of a police officer.

I'm a lower-class, black, schizophrenic, legalization advocate and civil liberties advocate. All of these counter many of the tactics and principles of the modern justice system which condones classism/racial profiling, criminalizes the mentally ill/drug users, and curtails civil liberties at every opportunity. Maybe if I were an upper class, white, neurotypical, anti-drug person who favored security over liberty it would serve my interest far more to have more police aggressively protecting my interest. But that's not the case. As you can see a person's background decides much of a person's worldview and cannot be altered with basic reassurances that most police are my friend despite my class, race, neurology, and political beliefs.

I agree that all three cases:Trayvon, Brown and Garner were different but I disagree that the victims in all three cases sealed their own fate.

Brown may have been a dangerous thug who tried to kill a cop, so while I'm glad his death launched the protest against police abuse, I think the movement should distance itself from the case.

Garner deserved to be charged with a petty crime or resisting arrest, he didn't deserve to be choked to death. The cop who choked him to death deserves blame here and people are right to protest.

I also think Trayvon Martin had a right to defend himself if he thought he was in danger. A man stalking you with a gun at night can be terrifying. Again people are right to protest the outcome and verdict.

Ultimately not everyone can have a balanced view of the police. Some will always support the police and others will always remain critical.

It's a necessary conflict that must exist to help our society find deeper truths and ultimately progress. We don't want to live in a society where no one scrutinized the police or everyone distrusted the police.