The Rise of Skywalker Rise of Skywalker Leaks and Spoilers thread

[Mr. Peanut]

Broomboy's appearance becomes even more hollow when they don't even bother to bring any new Force users into the story. It's like...

"See this kid using the Force? Now anyone can use the Force! This is totally a deep, new message that subverts Star Wars, and totally not something that has always been the case!" *Finn suddenly shouts "They have the Force now!?" in the background*

"Oh but also the only Force users that actually matter in this trilogy are Skywalkers and Palpatines."

 

[Willi Berg]

Broomboy's appearance becomes even more hollow when they don't even bother to bring any new Force users into the story. It's like...

"See this kid using the Force? Now anyone can use the Force! This is totally a deep, new message that subverts Star Wars, and totally not something that has always been the case!" *Finn suddenly shouts "They have the Force now!?" In the background*

"Oh but also the only Force users that actually matter in this trilogy are Skywalkers and Palpatines."

You can put Rey right in there with Broom Boy too because it looked like Rian was trying to go with the idea that people like Rey and Broom Boy could be randoms who were gifted with the Force and have it not be be about it being a family inherited thing. But then TROS just moved everything back to that idea anyway!

 

[Mr. Peanut]

You can put Rey right in there with Broom Boy too because it looked like Rian was trying to go with the idea that people like Rey and Broom Boy could be randoms who were gifted with the Force and have it not be be about it being a family inherited thing. But then TROS just moved everything back to that idea anyway!

Oh yeah, definitely. Rian wanted Rey to be a symbol for "anyone can use the Force and be a hero". Even though the message is completely undermined by the fact that she is singularly exemplary with no effort on her own part, so she is essentially a "chosen one" that the narrative is disingenuously pretending isn't a chosen one.

The message would have been much better communicated by revealing that Finn is a Force user...a regular average Force user who has to train and struggle to get strong enough to make a difference...and have him be the one who saves the day, or at least give him a major role in saving the day.

Avatar had a similar deal with Aang and Katara. Aang was the "chosen one" who learned things effortlessly, while Katara struggled to learn. But through sheer determination and relentless training she becomes a master water bender who

Spoiler

defeats one of the two main villains.

In order to use a fantasy universe to effectively communicate a certain message, you really have to understand that universe, otherwise your message is unlikely to have any substance.

 

[Willi Berg]

I can sort of understand wanting to tie it all back to the Skywalkers and the OT. It had obligations to that story because that's where it is coming from, and the OT characters were involved. But those obligations also tied it down and held it back. To truly go with "randoms" using the Force etc. then it does need to break away from the Skywalker saga. So it will be good when it does and we get movies that move away from these familiar characters. Unfortunately, these clash of ideas created a bit of a mess with these Sequel Trilogy movies. The Skywalker Saga is probably the wrong place to try to break away from those ideas! It was always about family, lineage etc.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

Not sure if the right place to start this discussion but it's doing my head in and I need speculative answers...

What exactly happened to the First Order? They had absolute control of the galaxy, then Palpatine rocks up with the Final Order fleet which gets destroyed and what? The FO goes home? Absolute nonsense

 

[Tony Stark]

So basically the Disney trilogy succeeded only in devaluing and negating the significance of the Skywalker lineage. Making the Skywalker's nearly irrelvant by the fact that the empire still lives on through the first order, the emperor still lives, and balance wasn't brought to the force.

You basically summarized the whole problem with the sequel trilogy. Vader's conversion is made completely irrelevant. Luke is pretty much a failure, because his new Jedi Order is eradicated only 30 years after it started, while the first Jedi order lasted 1000 generations.

 

[godisawesome]

I can sort of understand wanting to tie it all back to the Skywalkers and the OT. It had obligations to that story because that's where it is coming from, and the OT characters were involved. But those obligations also tied it down and held it back. To truly go with "randoms" using the Force etc. then it does need to break away from the Skywalker saga. So it will be good when it does and we get movies that move away from these familiar characters. Unfortunately, these clash of ideas created a bit of a mess with these Sequel Trilogy movies. The Skywalker Saga is probably the wrong place to try to break away from those ideas! It was always about family, lineage etc.

If they wanted to move away from the Skywalker family, then there was a simple solution: keep Luke single, and make Han and Leia childless... or adoptive parents... or parents of a non-Force Senstiive kid.

Fundamentally, seeing the Skywalker family as a limitation that the ST needed to break away from is a flawed, fraudulent bit of farce when one considers two things: the PT had already showcased that you could move away from the Skywalkers as force users without any hassle, and clearly, like a whole bunch of other decisions made by LFL throughout the Sequel Trilogy... it doesn’t apply to Kylo.

We need to move past the Skywalkers!... But Kylo should be considered the *real* male lead over Finn. It’s great that Rey isn’t a Skywalker, and not defined by being their kid!... But she needs to get charmed by Kylo and his charm, once she sees past all that surface level Neo-Nazi Patricide and Mass Murderer thing. Oh posh, of course we’re not going to focus on the innate horror and sympathy of the Stormtroopers being torn from their families most of the time; I mean, there’s only so many times you can do that!... But Kylo needs all the sympathy we can possibly squeeze out of Force-induced Schizophrenia, and Ben should be considered totally free of true guilt from all that Kylo stuff when we reveal that.

For all the talk LFL made about bold choices, they allowed the most derivative character they had to be given a painfully, shallow, and story-damaging conventional treatment.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You can put Rey right in there with Broom Boy too because it looked like Rian was trying to go with the idea that people like Rey and Broom Boy could be randoms who were gifted with the Force and have it not be be about it being a family inherited thing. But then TROS just moved everything back to that idea anyway!

This is such an interesting concept to explore. I mean it isn't like we had three movies or a television series with thousands of Jedi knights, showing us Force users outside of the Skywalkers and Palpatine.

Wait a minute...









Also Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda have existed for 40 years at this point.

 

[Willi Berg]

If they wanted to move away from the Skywalker family, then there was a simple solution: keep Luke single, and make Han and Leia childless... or adoptive parents... or parents of a non-Force Senstiive kid.

Fundamentally, seeing the Skywalker family as a limitation that the ST needed to break away from is a flawed, fraudulent bit of farce when one considers two things: the PT had already showcased that you could move away from the Skywalkers as force users without any hassle, and clearly, like a whole bunch of other decisions made by LFL throughout the Sequel Trilogy... it doesn’t apply to Kylo.

We need to move past the Skywalkers!... But Kylo should be considered the *real* male lead over Finn. It’s great that Rey isn’t a Skywalker, and not defined by being their kid!... But she needs to get charmed by Kylo and his charm, once she sees past all that surface level Neo-Nazi Patricide and Mass Murderer thing. Oh posh, of course we’re not going to focus on the innate horror and sympathy of the Stormtroopers being torn from their families most of the time; I mean, there’s only so many times you can do that!... But Kylo needs all the sympathy we can possibly squeeze out of Force-induced Schizophrenia, and Ben should be considered totally free of true guilt from all that Kylo stuff when we reveal that.

For all the talk LFL made about bold choices, they allowed the most derivative character they had to be given a painfully, shallow, and story-damaging conventional treatment.

A Skywalker story would've been nice...if it had felt more committed. Unfortunately the Sequel Trilogy feels stuck between the old and the new. I mainly feel hyped for SW now when it breaks away from a lot of that (the direct ties to the OT), as it now mainly feels rehashed or tired.

 

[Marvolo]

You can put Rey right in there with Broom Boy too because it looked like Rian was trying to go with the idea that people like Rey and Broom Boy could be randoms who were gifted with the Force and have it not be be about it being a family inherited thing. But then TROS just moved everything back to that idea anyway!

Somehow many fans seem to overlook the fact that that idea was established very very firmly in the PT. The Jedi didnt marry, and the code forbade sexual relations. The thousands of Jedi that lived under the Jedi code for thousands of years werent from special bloodlines or a dynasty. They were nobodies, from non Jedi families. Rian was just reaffirming this and using it to add hope to the dark times of the sequel trilogy.

Luke and Leia and Ben are frankly the oddballs out. The black sheep of the Jedi family. The scandalous offspring of a scandalous sexual relationship that was forbidden by the Jedi code. Sure it was the will of the Force, but it wasnt ever the norm.

It's also worth noting that in high fantasy and urban fantasy there are two general schools of thought about magic and wizards.

1. Is that anyone can become a wizard if they are taught how by another wizard or text. Everyone has a bit of magic that cab be nurtured and grown.

2. Only select people are born with the ability to be wizards and the are a separate class of being from ordinary folk.

Rian tried to add some of the first, and honestly I think it's a more egalitarian way of approaching magic, because the second school of thought is a bit elitist. It smacks of the ol blue blood ****. The first doesnt separate people into a predestined class of special beings. I enjoy stories thatapprpach magic both ways, but I cant fault Rian for dispensing with some of the elitist dynastic stuff.

 

[Willi Berg]

Somehow many fans seem to overlook the fact that that idea was established very very firmly in the PT. The Jedi didnt marry, and the code forbade sexual relations. The thousands of Jedi that lived under the Jedi code for thousands of years werent from special bloodlines or a dynasty. They were nobodies, from non Jedi families. Rian was just reaffirming this and using it to add hope to the dark times of the sequel trilogy.

Luke and Leia and Ben are frankly the oddballs out. The black sheep of the Jedi family. The scandalous offspring of a scandalous sexual relationship that was forbidden by the Jedi code. Sure it was the will of the Force, but it wasnt ever the norm.

It's obvious that younglings and Force users were discovered at random and didn't come from special families and we saw that in the PT. But we're talking about who was focused on, who played the important roles of "The Chosen One" or the special roles. Which we see are in the family Skywalker, or the Palpatine fam now, the ones who are most powerful.

 

[Willi Berg]

Rian was obviously saying that hope lay not in the Skywalker family or special lineage but in others who just happened to be strong in the Force. And that was obviously changed and shifted back to a more conventional idea in TROS- that it wasn't a "random" but a descendant of Palpatine. A bloodline.

 

[ironman_rick]

I am convinced the ending of ROTS was "inspired" by endgame.

1)Endgame -I am inevitable & I am ........... Ironman - Snap
2)ROTS - I am all of the Sith & I am...........all of the jedi - forcepower

Jesus......

 

[Herolee10]

So basically the Disney trilogy succeeded only in devaluing and negating the significance of the Skywalker lineage. Making the Skywalker's nearly irrelvant by the fact that the empire still lives on through the first order, the emperor still lives, and balance wasn't brought to the force.

Pretty much. I feel like the ONLY way you could possibly redeem the REAL Skywalker lineage is if you add some kind of plot twist in a future trilogy that Luke did have a offspring that he didn't know about during the thirty years between the events of ROTJ and TFA and make that offspring redeem the Skywalker line.

Now for those of you that are saying that this would be ridiculous, well so was having Rey revealed to be Palpatine's granddaughter as well.lol

 

[Delwin]

Storytelling mistakes were made in TFA and they were not corrected in the TLJ (made even worse). There are thousands of the generations (sorry: ideas) how to "start" the story. again. They failed. I really would love to learn how Trevorow envisaged the story. Even ROS - you could have killed Snoke but learn in the ROS that there is another Snoke - or even more of them: fruits of some old Palpatine experiments (let's imagine three of them - sharing Force bond: in similar way as Reylo) who took their chance to get independent ones their creator is dead (kind of "rehash" of story if creation of Anakin). So at the end we have two new "Snokes" who could work as adversaries both for Kylo and Rey. Such reveal would have made much more sense. Rey could have been left as "nobody" in that version or granddaughter of some Jedi knight killed in "follow ups" of Order 66 (still linked to the story, but without any specific "lineage").

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am convinced the ending of ROTS was "inspired" by endgame.

1)Endgame -I am inevitable & I am ........... Ironman - Snap
2)ROTS - I am all of the Sith & I am...........all of the jedi - forcepower

Jesus......

If that is how it ends, it was actually inspired by the original ending of RotJ. Where a bunch of Force ghosts show up to help Luke kill the Emperor.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Pretty much. I feel like the ONLY way you could possibly redeem the REAL Skywalker lineage is if you add some kind of plot twist in a future trilogy that Luke did have a offspring that he didn't know about during the thirty years between the events of ROTJ and TFA and make that offspring redeem the Skywalker line.

Now for those of you that are saying that this would be ridiculous, well so was having Rey revealed to be Palpatine's granddaughter as well.lol

I actually starting thinking about an episode 10 last night. Where Rey has rebuilt to the Jedi Order, only to have a new student around her age show up. Guess who this student is the kid of?

Imagine someone who like Rey, never knew their parents. I like the idea of Rey teaching them not only about the Force, but his family as well. Their legacy.

 

[TheVileOne]

I want a Kyle Katarn movie.

 

[titansupes]

If that is how it ends, it was actually inspired by the original ending of RotJ. Where a bunch of Force ghosts show up to help Luke kill the Emperor.

Yup.

And I loved A:E, but it certainly didn't invent "bad guy says bad thing, good guy retorts with good thing and defeats bad guy".

 

[DeadPresident]

Rian was obviously saying that hope lay not in the Skywalker family or special lineage but in others who just happened to be strong in the Force. And that was obviously changed and shifted back to a more conventional idea in TROS- that it wasn't a "random" but a descendant of Palpatine. A bloodline.

The strange thing is a lot of franchises seem to be punting that line, and it’s a very weird one to follow. I mean sure, it’s a nice idea that everyone is capable of great things and who you are doesn’t matter, but if every franchises divorces its themes from its popular characters what’s the point of investing in any character if they’re irrelevant?

IMO they could’ve achieved a story that moved on from the Skywalkers without ****ing all over the established canon and kicking its dismembered body down a well.

 

[Galactus123]

I saw the movie yesterday and it was better than I expected. I didn't really like The Last Jedi so I didn't expect much. The movie had many things that I liked and many stupid things.

Spoiler

I like Palpatine but bringing him back wasn't a very good idea. Also the fact that Rey is his granddaughter felt dumb. I didn't like that they killed Leia. I understand why they did it but I don't like that they killed all the main characters from original trilogy. I'm glad that this movie had more C-3PO and Lando was great.

 

[OrganaSkywalker]

To me it is one of the best movies of the whole franchise. At the very least it is the best one of the sequel trilogy. I know people will disagree but this is my personal opinion.

 

[Schlosser85]

If that is how it ends, it was actually inspired by the original ending of RotJ. Where a bunch of Force ghosts show up to help Luke kill the Emperor.

It makes me think of the Harry/Voldemort duel in Goblet of Fire where when their wands connect, the ghosts/spirits of Voldemort's victims including Harry's parents appear, goad Harry on, and ultimately rush Voldemort and distract him for a moment so Harry gets away.

 

[Gothamsknight]

so my fiance didnt like it because of the kiss, her being a palpatine and she felt that it was kind of predictable but says ill like it lol. she knows me really well so im confident lol

 

[Holy Slapper]

I am convinced the ending of ROTS was "inspired" by endgame.

1)Endgame -I am inevitable & I am ........... Ironman - Snap
2)ROTS - I am all of the Sith & I am...........all of the jedi - forcepower

Jesus......

I got that feeling a bit. But it worked for me and my friend and based on the reactions of people in the theater, also the audience.