The Rise of Skywalker Rise of Skywalker Leaks and Spoilers thread

[samsnee]

Yeah I hated the Rose character. The backlash against the actress was completely ridiculous but I didn’t care for the character and her arc.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Yeah I hated the Rose character. The backlash against the actress was completely ridiculous but I didn’t care for the character and her arc.

I wasn’t a fan of Rose either. Her character served nothing to the plot and in the end she prevented Finn from going out like a badass all in the name of “love” But yeah, the backlash towards the actress was completely unwarranted. Not her fault the character sucked

Another useless character was Holdo. That role could have easily been Ackbar’s and his end would have been more fitting rather than the idiotic way he got taken out. Would have also given a fan favorite character a much larger role

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Exclusive: Rey’s backstory from Collin Trevorrow’s Star Wars: Episode IX! | Making Star Wars

Wow so MSW has leaked some bits from Trevorrow’s script and uh...well I tend to defend Trevorrow but I think we may have dodged a bullet. Bulletin points of the script:

Spoiler

Rey's mom was going to be the Solo's nanny/maid.

Rey and Ben were basically going to be like brother and sister

The First Order had mindwipe techology. (Hence nobody remembering Rey & Ben grew up in the same home together)

The First Order's plan involved Manchurian Candidate-ing people with the mindwipe technology

Leia still dies

The dynamic between Rey & Kylo was nothing more than "BE EVIL WITH ME" "NO!" "COME ON, BE EVIL WITH ME" "NO!"

Kylo still gets redemption, but mostly because of nostalgia for his childhood home, where the climax of the movie happens.

So, looking at this, it appears he's going to get a story by credit because of the introduction of Leia's lightsaber, and the Sith/Red stormtroopers got carried over.

 

[Tony Stark]

Yeah I hated the Rose character. The backlash against the actress was completely ridiculous but I didn’t care for the character and her arc.

Rose represented exactly what is the main problem with the sequel trilogy, and that includes TFA where Rose wasn't around. There's a great video on YouTube entitled "Are the Star Wars Sequels worse than the Prequels?"

Now before anyone stars screaming "Jar Jar Binks" and "midichlorians" you ought to watch the video because it sums up the problems with these most recent films very succinctly.

The problem is that the sequels doesn't know how to handle the mass amount of characters it introduces, and there's seemingly no connection among other main characters, for example Rey and Poe. They throw in Rose whose purpose is largely unnecessary and forced, plus they are having to balance out the returning OT characters that seem to grasp all the weight of the film to the point we don't really care about the main characters all that much.

You can make many complaints of the prequels, but the fact is the story was centered on Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme and story is what drove the characters, not the other way around in the sequels where Rey is pretty much undamaged and faces no consequences in the story line. Stuff happens to people around her and she reacts. That's not a character arc.

 

[TheVileOne]

The prequels are still worse.

 

[Marvolo]

Rose represented exactly what is the main problem with the sequel trilogy, and that includes TFA where Rose wasn't around. There's a great video on YouTube entitled "Are the Star Wars Sequels worse than the Prequels?"

Now before anyone stars screaming "Jar Jar Binks" and "midichlorians" you ought to watch the video because it sums up the problems with these most recent films very succinctly.

The problem is that the sequels doesn't know how to handle the mass amount of characters it introduces, and there's seemingly no connection among other main characters, for example Rey and Poe. They throw in Rose whose purpose is largely unnecessary and forced, plus they are having to balance out the returning OT characters that seem to grasp all the weight of the film to the point we don't really care about the main characters all that much.

You can make many complaints of the prequels, but the fact is the story was centered on Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme and story is what drove the characters, not the other way around in the sequels where Rey is pretty much undamaged and faces no consequences in the story line. Stuff happens to people around her and she reacts. That's not a character arc.

The prequels handling of its characters makes the sequel trilogy look like Shakespeare.


And anyone that thinks Rey hasnt faced consequences and been effected by the plot of the trilogy hasnt actually paid attention to these films. The plight of Rey, abandonment and being orphaned, is a direct result of the antagonists of the trilogy. And dont even get me started on Snoke and Kyko mentally raping her and physically violating her and kidnapping her in TFA and TLJ. And there is Snoke connecting Rey's mind to Kylo's mind so that Kylo could manipulate her. She had to watch Kylo brutally murder Han which caused obvious emotional trauma. She was thrown into a tree and fell at least 20 feet while unconscious. She suffered rejection by Luke. Just because she hasnt lost limbs or had the **** beat out of her doesnt mean she has suffered no consequences or damage. And based on the leaks in ROS she gets put through the ringer emotionally.

As for her arc, she goes from being an abandoned orphan on a backwater planet to being a powerful Jedi that will defeat Sidious and end the Sith. That's a clear and obvious character arc.

 

[samsnee]

I wasn’t a fan of Rose either. Her character served nothing to the plot and in the end she prevented Finn from going out like a badass all in the name of “love” But yeah, the backlash towards the actress was completely unwarranted. Not her fault the character sucked

Another useless character was Holdo. That role could have easily been Ackbar’s and his end would have been more fitting rather than the idiotic way he got taken out. Would have also given a fan favorite character a much larger role

I had to look up who Holdo was. That’s how memorable that character was.

 

[BatLobster]

It's interesting to me how many people were hoping to see Luke/Leia/Han reunited. It was actually something I DIDN'T want to see.

Having lived through Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, one of my biggest fears for the ST when it was announced was that it was going to feel like a bunch of 65-70 year olds running around adventuring, trying to recapture the nostalgia and it all just feeling cringey.

Each Star Wars trilogy is supposed to represent a shift, a passage of time and a focus on a new generation. The fact that the trio isn't together in this trilogy just makes their time together in the OT more special. And the scenes we got with Han/Leia and Luke/Leia were handled beautifully.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

It's interesting to me how many people were hoping to see Luke/Leia/Han reunited. It was actually something I DIDN'T want to see.

Having lived through Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, one of my biggest fears for the ST when it was announced was that it was going to feel like a bunch of 65-70 year olds running around adventuring, trying to recapture the nostalgia and it all just feeling cringey.

Each Star Wars trilogy is supposed to represent a shift, a passage of time and a focus on a new generation. The fact that the trio isn't together in this trilogy just makes their time together in the OT more special. And the scenes we got with Han/Leia and Luke/Leia were handled beautifully.

I’m not hating this trilogy of Disney SW but there are a number of things I’m not happy with. That said I don’t think anyone expected the further adventures of a crew. I think it was always expected they’d pass the torch, but they should’ve been more prominent in this trilogy than they were, without so much focus on Rey, or at least give her more backstory and focus so she isn’t just random most powerful Jedi ever.

It isn’t that they always need to be together, I mean after ANH the trio are hardly together at all in ESB, and back and forth in Jedi. But knowing they were still friends, still in love, still working together, whatever, 30 years later is something a lot of us wanted. A mirror to the final shots of RotJ to see where they’d been and what they were like now. Hell, at this point I’d have taken the a flashback last meeting between the 3 when Luke took Ben, the last time I’d imagine they were all happy together. At least they would all be in the same scene.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The prequels are still worse.

They very much are. I know there's a lot of revisionist history these days, but from a filmmaking and story standpoint, the prequels can't hold a candle to the sequels. I actually like the prequels, but the sequels are pretty much better in every way. The sequels gave me characters I love and connect with, and as much as I can enjoy the prequels, I could not connect with any of the characters. And that's not even if you include jar jar, overuse of CGi, bad dialogue, etc. And it's not even a contest honestly.

I often hear the excuse "George was trying to tell a story". Yeah, well so does every director. That's actually pretty insulting and a stupid excuse for "nostalgia" driven defenses.

 

[Travesty]

Filmmaking? Sure.

Story standpoint? I honestly don't see how.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Filmmaking? Sure.

Story standpoint? I honestly don't see how.

The prequels rushed anakins downfall, and the phantom menaces existence pretty much serves no purpose for a trilogy. The prequels should have started with anakin already under training from Obi Wan. I often don't really understand why Lucas thought it was necessary to show Anakin being picked up by Qui Gon or decided to focus on trade disputes instead of developing anakin and obi wans relationship. I laugh at the idea that somehow the prequels are more cohesive than the sequels when there's so much character development and interactions that were skipped over for the sake of showing us new things and new worlds. It took an animated show to make anakins downfall feel more natural and not so rushed because Lucas was focused more on tech than anything else. not to mention the many things in the prequels that end up not adding up with the OT that people now seem to ignore.

Also, we still have The Rise of Skywalker to see how much it expands on character interactions and development in the sequels so I dont think its fair to judge this trilogy in that aspect until its all over. so far though, all of that has been better in the sequels for me.

But anyway, with that being said, Phantom Menace is still a much better movie than Attack of the Clones. Revenge of the Sith is still the most enjoyable of the prequels for me and, without question, the best of the prequels. I always enjoy that movie when I watch it.

 

[Travesty]

Yeah, I agree that the prequels weren’t great. I’m not making a claim that they’re perfect, I’m just saying that their story is better. And yes, the character development isn’t that great in the prequels, which just shows you how terrible it’s been for this new trilogy. The characters have barely grown in development from the first movie. They’re basically all in the same position/place we all saw them at the end of the TFA....other than the fact that more legacy characters are dead.

And it’s not even the fans who have a ton of problems with the way the characters are written, but also the actors have who play them. It’s odd hearing quotes from Luke, Ackbar and others about not being happy with where the characters are going. Normally actors are doing damage control, but with these new movies, they’re just letting it rip.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. But as for the older actors having issues, Mark even admitted some of that is because they aren't the focus of this trilogy and what an actor wants isn't always whats best, which is also something Mark has admitted to as well.

 

[BatLobster]

The problem is, it's hard to judge a story as a whole without the context of 1/3 of the story. Not knowing where the story is going =/= a bad story. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

And I mean, to me Episodes 7 and 8 feel more connected than Episodes 1 and 2. The 10 year time jump between 1 and 2 effectively reboots Anakin as a character. He goes from sweet young kid to whiny, entitled adolescent all with no on-screen development. The only aspect of Episode 1 that carries over is he misses his mother and has a weird inappropriate crush on Padme. I love Ewan's portrayal of Obi-Wan, but he is a static character through all 3 movies. Try to tell me Obi-Wan or Padme's arcs in the prequels. What important lessons they learn. You can't, cause they're essentially just props in Anakin's descent. And I've defended the prequels for years btw. I actually like them. Mainly because I think they're such a rare example of a filmmaker having complete control of films of that size and doing whatever he wants, even if it breaks fundamental storytelling norms. It's just interesting from that perspective and I do think there was great ambition there.

As for the ST, I don't see how the characters arcs haven't advanced. Finn has gone from a guy who is always either looking to run away or only focused on saving his friend, to being a committed Resistance fighter. Poe has gone from a trigger-happy pilot who thinks he can solve everything by jumping into an X-Wing and being the hero, to a more thoughtful leader who understands that survival is sometimes more important that winning the day, and the importance of keeping an eye on the bigger picture. And Kylo Ren has a very dynamic journey all through both movies that reveal a tortured soul at war with itself.

I think Rey's journey is the one that is still the most in flux. She's gone from obsessing over her family and trying to pass the buck to Luke and Ben Solo to accepting her role as the (new) new hope. But it's clear there's a lot of unfinished business with her story that will come to a head in this film and round our her arc of searching for belonging.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The problem is, it's hard to judge a story as a whole without the context of 1/3 of the story. Not knowing where the story is going =/= a bad story. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

And I mean, to me Episodes 7 and 8 feel more connected than Episodes 1 and 2. The 10 year time jump between 1 and 2 effectively reboots Anakin as a character. He goes from sweet young kid to whiny, entitled adolescent all with no development. The only aspect of Episode 1 that carries over is he misses his mother and has a weird inappropriate crush on Padme. I love Ewan's portrayal of Obi-Wan, but he is a static character through all 3 movies. Try to tell me Obi-Wan or Padme's arcs in the prequels. What important lessons they learn. You can't, cause they're essentially just props in Anakin's descent. And I've defended the prequels for years btw. I actually like them. Mainly because I think they're such a rare example of a filmmaker having complete control of films of that size and doing whatever he wants, even if it breaks fundamental storytelling norms. It's just interesting from that perspective and I do think there was great ambition there.

As for the ST, I don't see how the characters arcs haven't advanced. Finn has gone from a guy who is always either looking to run away or only focused on saving his friend, to being a committed Resistance fighter. Poe has gone from a trigger-happy pilot who thinks he can solve everything by jumping into an X-Wing and being the hero, to a more thoughtful leader who understands that survival is sometimes more important that winning the day, and the importance of keeping an eye on the bigger picture. And Kylo Ren has a very dynamic journey all through both movies that reveal a tortured soul at war with itself.

I think Rey's journey is the one that is still the most in flux. She's gone from obsessing over her family and trying to pass the buck to Luke and Ben Solo to accepting her role as the (new) new hope. But it's clear there's a lot of unfinished business with her story that will come to a head in this film and round our her arc of searching for belonging.

This.

 

[Travesty]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Absolutely

 

[Boom]

Yeah, I agree that the prequels weren’t great. I’m not making a claim that they’re perfect, I’m just saying that their story is better. And yes, the character development isn’t that great in the prequels, which just shows you how terrible it’s been for this new trilogy. The characters have barely grown in development from the first movie. They’re basically all in the same position/place we all saw them at the end of the TFA....other than the fact that more legacy characters are dead.

And it’s not even the fans who have a ton of problems with the way the characters are written, but also the actors have who play them. It’s odd hearing quotes from Luke, Ackbar and others about not being happy with where the characters are going. Normally actors are doing damage control, but with these new movies, they’re just letting it rip.

Yeah. I'm not as hard on the sequel trilogy as others are, but if it has one major shortcoming (beyond recycled ideas), it's the lack of compelling characters outside of the legacy ones. We are two movies in and I barely give a **** about Poe and Finn. The only reason I care about Rey at all is because she's the main hero character and is therefore given most of the focus. So it's one of those situations where I care about a character because I kinda HAVE to. The only new character that I have genuinely enjoyed so far is Kylo Ren. Outside of Kylo, my enjoyment of the sequel trilogy has rested almost entirely on the shoulders of Han, Luke, and Leia. And they're all dead now.

 

[Tony Stark]

The prequels handling of its characters makes the sequel trilogy look like Shakespeare.


And anyone that thinks Rey hasnt faced consequences and been effected by the plot of the trilogy hasnt actually paid attention to these films. The plight of Rey, abandonment and being orphaned, is a direct result of the antagonists of the trilogy. And dont even get me started on Snoke and Kyko mentally raping her and physically violating her and kidnapping her in TFA and TLJ. And there is Snoke connecting Rey's mind to Kylo's mind so that Kylo could manipulate her. She had to watch Kylo brutally murder Han which caused obvious emotional trauma. She was thrown into a tree and fell at least 20 feet while unconscious. She suffered rejection by Luke. Just because she hasnt lost limbs or had the **** beat out of her doesnt mean she has suffered no consequences or damage. And based on the leaks in ROS she gets put through the ringer emotionally.

As for her arc, she goes from being an abandoned orphan on a backwater planet to being a powerful Jedi that will defeat Sidious and end the Sith. That's a clear and obvious character arc.

Literally everything you just described is not a character arc. You pretty much made my point. Stuff happens around Rey and she reacts to it. She is always right, she doesn't even really get training from Luke, she's just there long enough to find out what happened with Luke and Kylo, and then she leaves. There's no consequence for her leaving, or no consequence for her "physical violation" as you put it. There is nothing there.

Compare that to Luke. When Luke leaves his training to face Vader, he doesn't just lose a hand. He loses trust in the people he trusted the most for lying to him. He lost his friend who was tortured to lure him out, just as Yoda and Obi-Wan warned.

At the end of TLJ, Rey is a fully trained Jedi, even though she really had no training. She forgives Luke for lying to her about Kylo. She accepts her parents were nobody. All her friends are alive and they are all happily reunited. The only bad that happens to her is the Skywalker lightsaber is broken.

 

[scarlet-witch]

So back to spoilers. Does anyone think some of Ward's leaks might be wrong now since Trevorrow debunked his script spoilers?

 

[Tony Stark]

So back to spoilers. Does anyone think some of Ward's leaks might be wrong now since Trevorrow debunked his script spoilers?

I'm kind of confused on who said what. So you're referring to the spoiler that Kylo goes to the wayfinder location and sees a bunch of Snoke clones?

I've read different things, in the current revised script summary on Reddit it's saying that Palpy basically talks about Snoke in dialogue so that scene may be cut or something else.

The basic plot of how everything plays out is there, so I don't think there's much to be debunked. It's just a question of what scenes are cut and what scenes made it. They definitely cut the part about Vader killing Palpy's clone while he was safe in hiding, and they cut the stuff about the dyad, which was part of JJ's original cut, so I'm guessing they cut anything about clones being in this script completely, and I hope that's the case. Leaving a bit of mystery to how Palpy survived and who Snoke was and how he came to control him is probably for the best.

 

[Tony Stark]

Let me be clear to, because when I say "cut", I should say I don't think some of those scenes evenmade the shooting script, meaning there was nothing to cut, so I should say "revised" or "edited". The stuff about Vader killing palpy's clone I think was in an early script but there was never anything shot of him saying that. That could be the same for the Snoke clones. I don't know if that was shot or maybe just was a storyboard or early animation board, but honestly I doubt it's there now. From my understanding Palpy's confrontation with Kylo is basically Kylo thinking this is all some BS setup and Palpy just saying, "here I am aren't I" and him controlling Snoke is left to mystery. From my understanding this scene is the Star Wars equivalent of Neo visiting the Architect.

 

[Travesty]

So back to spoilers. Does anyone think some of Ward's leaks might be wrong now since Trevorrow debunked his script spoilers?

I don't know who leaked what, or who's saying what on YT or social media, as I don't follow that stuff. I just look at what is being said here. I don't venture out that far. So you're gonna have to be more specific.

 

[Calvin Ellis]

The prequels are still worse.

The prequels gave us the second best Star Wars movie ever ROTS.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'd say Empire Strikes Back and Rogue One are the best Star Wars movies, personally.