The Rise of Skywalker Rise of Skywalker Leaks and Spoilers thread

[Prettyricky]

The Rey lineage is so muddled in this, I don't know why she wasn't "created" like Anakin was. This much more cleanly explains how she exists, her power, and also how she is still a nobody.

The better way would have been shes just rey or the force created her to counter the darkside. This whole bs of everyone needs to be related to someone in order for there power to make sense is awful.

 

[Prettyricky]

It feels filled with plot holes because it obviously was not the plan all along.

In fact, I strongly suspect Abrams pulled Palpatine out of his ass after Johnson killed Snoke.

No doubt in my mind about this, even the snoke clones in the tanks was stupid. Simple solution should have been don't kill snoke and instead in this movie make him search for a way to resurrect the emperor or his spirit to obtain a greater power similar to what the emporer did in this movie with lightning etc. maybe snoke wants to live forever and sees if he obtains the emperors power then he can move his spirit to rey or kylo if they kill him.

 

[Travesty]

They took an entire movies motivation for a hero to turn evil and then had rey and kylo going like free cpr with it

"Free CPR", lol love it!

 

[Iceman]

It feels filled with plot holes because it obviously was not the plan all along.

In fact, I strongly suspect Abrams pulled Palpatine out of his ass after Johnson killed Snoke.

Snoke feels a bit of a waste of focus at this point with how things have shaken out.

 

[henzINNIT]

JJ did more damage to Snoke in one shot than Johnson did by killing him off.

 

[Detective Conan]

JJ did more damage to Snoke in one shot than Johnson did by killing him off.

 

[Travesty]

JJ did more damage to Snoke in one shot than Johnson did by killing him off.

I honestly don't see how that could be said, at all.

Rian: bahaha, I'm leaving you with literally nothing, because I killed off the main threat in the second movie.

JJ: ummmm, f' it, Snoke was a clone? I guess? That's literally all I can do to finish up the trilogy. Bring in Palpatine....I guess?

 

[MadVillainy]

I honestly don't see how that could be said, at all.

Rian: bahaha, I'm leaving you with literally nothing, because I killed off the main threat in the second movie.

JJ: ummmm, f' it, Snoke was a clone? I guess? That's literally all I can do to finish up the trilogy. Bring in Palpatine....I guess?

They could've done the Doombot angle.
The Snoke that Kylo killed is a clone/duplicate created by the actual Snoke. Leaving the final showdown to be with the actual Snoke.
Or he could've just kept Kylo as the big bad for the final film

 

[Travesty]

I don't know, either way, JJ had literally nothing to work with to end a trilogy.

Just a mess of a trilogy. TROS is basically two movies worth of content shoved into one(and it shows), because Rian Johnson didn't develop these characters in any regard.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't know, either way, JJ had literally nothing to work with to end a trilogy.

Just a mess of a trilogy. TROS is basically two movies worth of content shoved into one(and it shows), because Rian Johnson didn't develop these characters in any regard.

That's not true at all.
There's nothing done in TLJ that filmmakers couldn't have worked past to conclude the trilogy.

That's just silly thinking

 

[Herolee10]

I honestly don't see how that could be said, at all.

Rian: bahaha, I'm leaving you with literally nothing, because I killed off the main threat in the second movie.

JJ: ummmm, f' it, Snoke was a clone? I guess? That's literally all I can do to finish up the trilogy. Bring in Palpatine....I guess?

Honestly, I feel like JJ could have easily brought back Snoke, via cloning, and have him portrayed in a truly threatening manner. You could easily say that Kylo had actually killed a clone of Snoke in TLJ as well.

This way they wouldn't have had to revert back to the Emperor and devalue the original trilogy as well.

 

[Iceman]

I don’t really like major character getting cloned as any death could then be wound back that way. ie Vader and Maul were both clones too lol.

 

[Travesty]

Honestly, I feel like JJ could have easily brought back Snoke, via cloning, and have him portrayed in a truly threatening manner. You could easily say that Kylo had actually killed a clone of Snoke in TLJ as well.

This way they wouldn't have had to revert back to the Emperor and devalue the original trilogy as well.

Yeah, that's one idea, but that would be just as random as bringing Palpatine back. Having to explain that Snoke was a clone would take up more time than what they did with Palpatine. He was just in it from the beginning.

In fact, I think it would be weirder to have to battle Snoke again, after you just killed him. I think bringing Palpatine changed things up a bit, and made it less confusing....even though it is messy and convoluted. Which is my point: JJ was left with next to nothing, so it was always going to be convoluted. The characters were in the same place that they were by the end of TFA. Nothing changed in TLJ, expect for Luke dying, who isn't a new character. TLJ seemed to focus more on Luke, Leia and that stupid Casino planet. lol

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, that's one idea, but that would be just as random as bringing Palpatine back. Having to explain that Snoke was a clone would take up more time than what they did with Palpatine. He was just in it from the beginning.

In fact, I think it would be weirder to have to battle Snoke again, after you just killed him. I think bringing Palpatine changed things up a bit, and made it less confusing....even though it is messy and convoluted. Which is my point: JJ was left with next to nothing, so it was always going to be convoluted. The characters were in the same place that they were by the end of TFA. Nothing changed in TLJ, expect for Luke dying, who isn't a new character. lol

Exactly. So how was he left with nothing? If the characters didn't radically change and the story didn't radically change other than the death of Luke (which I think was always gonna happen) then how was anyone left with nothing or next to nothing? Pick up the character work, there was still places the story could go.

And how was Palpatine coming back "different?" They're literally bringing back an old character, which overrides one of the biggest moments in the whole saga. How is bringing Snoke back again after just killing him weirder when they did the same thing with Palpatine.

 

[Travesty]

I said they were int he same place as they were in TFA. So I'm saying that TLJ didn't progress these characters, at all.

If they were in the same place as they were at the end of TFA, that means JJ was left with having to do a trilogies worth of plotting with just 2 movies, since nothing happened with then new characters in TLJ.

I've said this before, but if they didn't go the trilogy route, I think they would be ok, but they were specifically doing a trilogy, so it clearly didn't work.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah, that's one idea, but that would be just as random as bringing Palpatine back. Having to explain that Snoke was a clone would take up more time than what they did with Palpatine. He was just in it from the beginning.

In fact, I think it would be weirder to have to battle Snoke again, after you just killed him. I think bringing Palpatine changed things up a bit, and made it less confusing....even though it is messy and convoluted. Which is my point: JJ was left with next to nothing, so it was always going to be convoluted. The characters were in the same place that they were by the end of TFA. Nothing changed in TLJ, expect for Luke dying, who isn't a new character. TLJ seemed to focus more on Luke, Leia and that stupid Casino planet. lol

I feel like bringing Palptaine back made things even worse. At least with reviving Snoke, you don't devalue Anakin's sacrifice and Luke's victory over the Emeperor. Not to mention the whole idea of making Rey into his long lost granddaughter and having to explain on why he never attempted to capture her beforehand could have been avoided as well.

 

[The Shape]

Personally, the more interesting idea to me was for them to push forward with Kylo as the true "big bad" of the trilogy. Instead of doing the whole "will he or won't he be redeemed?" thing over again, he had turned further towards the dark side in TLJ. After he chopped off his own puppet strings, he could have been a truly fearsome and unpredictable ruler/villain. Regardless of the way you feel about TLJ, there were still a lot of interesting directions that they could have taken this story in the final film.

Instead, they reverted back to a rehash of ROTJ -- only with Kylo's redemption taking place a littleee earlier and lasting a bit longer than Vader's final moments. I actually LOLed when the opening scrawl started -- "Palpatine is back, yo!"

 

[Brother Jack]

If they were going to bring Palpatine back they should've structured it like Lord of the Rings, where the macguffin is the thing that resurrects him, so he wouldn't be back corporeally until the climax. Starting the film with him already physically back, without any explanation, nullifies the ending because he could just come back again after Rey killed him. The basic plot outline of the movie could have been Kylo/First Order venturing to bring Sidious back, and the good guys trying to stop them, ala Raiders of the Lost Ark. Two sides moving toward the same point.

 

[MadVillainy]

I said they were int he same place as they were in TFA. So I'm saying that TLJ didn't progress these characters, at all.

If they were in the same place as they were at the end of TFA, that means JJ was left with having to do a trilogies worth of plotting with just 2 movies, since nothing happened with then new characters in TLJ.

I've said this before, but if they didn't go the trilogy route, I think they would be ok, but they were specifically doing a trilogy, so it clearly didn't work.

Yeah so if they're in the same place as they were when Abrams ended with them, why is that a problem. He could pick up from there.
That doesn't mean Abrams had to do a trilogy worth of work. That means at most 2 films. And to most people if you're lacking time, you cut things. You don't try and stuff as much as you can. I mean I haven't seen it yet, but from what I've read and can ascertain: you don't need that many Mcguffins, you don't need the Knights of Ren if you're not gonna do anything with them, etc.

Abrams was in a position where he could've still made it work better than what a lot of people are saying is the final result. It's not like everything he stuffed in the film was necessary for the ending right?

 

[MadVillainy]

If they were going to bring Palpatine back they should've structured it like Lord of the Rings, where the macguffin is the thing that resurrects him, so he wouldn't be back corporeally until the climax. Starting the film with him already physically back, without any explanation, nullifies the ending because he could just come back again after Rey killed him. The basic plot outline of the movie could have been Kylo/First Order venturing to bring Sidious back, and the good guys trying to stop them, ala Raiders of the Lost Ark. Two sides moving toward the same point.

Boom

 

[Travesty]

I feel like bringing Palptaine back made things even worse. At least with reviving Snoke, you don't devalue Anakin's sacrifice and Luke's victory over the Emeperor. Not to mention the whole idea of making Rey into his long lost granddaughter and having to explain on why he never attempted to capture her beforehand could have been avoided as well.

I'm not claiming that the Palpatine idea was good, and I do agree it breaks things with Anakin. But I think it feels less messy from this trilogy, instead of looking at the entire saga as a whole. Either way, bring back Snoke, bring back Palpatine? Both are stupid.

Yeah so if they're in the same place as they were when Abrams ended with them, why is that a problem.

Because nothing progressed in the second movie, which is why the third is so stuffed and convoluted. If the original trilogy ended with Vader telling Luke he's his father, do you think that would've been a proper send off for that trilogy?

 

[MadVillainy]

Because nothing progressed in the second movie, which is why the third is so stuffed and convoluted. If the original trilogy ended with Vader telling Luke he's his father, do you think that would've been a proper send off for that trilogy?

It's so stuffed because he tried to stuff everything in the movie instead of streamling it. As I said, if you're running out of space/time you don't stuff everything in. You cut stuff. Which he didn't do.

And your point about Vader telling Luke he's his father doesn't make anything close to sense. It means nothing

 

[Travesty]

Well, he can't streamline it, because nothing happened in the second movie.

You can't even understand a simple point I made about Vader, and we're not agreeing on anything here. I can't go around in circles. I'm done.

 

[henzINNIT]

I honestly don't see how that could be said, at all.

Rian: bahaha, I'm leaving you with literally nothing, because I killed off the main threat in the second movie.

JJ: ummmm, f' it, Snoke was a clone? I guess? That's literally all I can do to finish up the trilogy. Bring in Palpatine....I guess?

He may have died in TLJ, but he died a shadowy and powerful figure. TROS stuck him in a jar, a mere meaningless puppet.

Snoke wasn't all that interesting beyond his mystery. JJ proved that there was nothing to Snoke in this movie. Kylo assuming that role was something fresh. A decent writer could have run with that.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well, he can't streamline it, because nothing happened in the second movie.

You can't even understand a simple point I made about Vader, and we're not agreeing on anything here. I'm done with this.

How can he not streamline it. You're not using evidence for this. If nothing happened, then you cut things out to make things work. You don't overstuff.

Because the point doesn't make sense. What does "What if the original trilogy had ended with Vader revealing he's Luke's father" have to do with Abrams streamlining the story he wants to tell. That's why it doesn't make sense in this convo. There's nothing about the ST and Abrams cutting stuff out that has to do with the point you made. If you're saying what if nothing happened in ESB so they had to put the reveal in RotJ, there would've still been ways to work around that.