RoboCop’ Returns

[TheVileOne]

I think Peter Weller is appreciative and thankful for the role, but he's moved on. IMHO it wouldn't make sense to bring him back here.

I wouldn't want Weller in the movie unless he's in the suit and able to bring that character to life. That was what was so wondrous about that original performance. Just seems unrealistic for him to play the character again. I wouldn't want just him doing facial motion capture or physical motion capture. That would cheapen the RoboCop performance. And I'm going to be a stickler about that. This isn't a Caesar situation.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, pretty much. People forget Weller was way more than just a voiceover there, the demeanor and movement was all a majority him. Pretty sure from memory on the DVD making-of stuff they made a big deal of him figuring all of that out personally and suggesting it to Verhoeven and the costume guys.

Sure, you could get some trained mimick body-double guy to just recreate it and have Peter do ADR, but it'd come off a little cheap and unsatisfying somehow, can't put my finger on why.

I don't even personally want Peter back here, but if you're getting someone else in the suit you might as well just do a clean-cut recast, have some faith in the actual actor hired to do it all. Hire an actor around the age he was back then, with a similar (doesn't have to be too crazy near-identical, just broadly reminiscent) face and tone of voice. Someone with actual acting chops like Peter had, and let them do their thing while still saluting the original.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah that performance was just one of those perfect storms where all the stars just magically aligned and they made something classic and iconic.

And also, those subtle changes for Murphy in the third act. Even in his voice. He's a machine now, but he's aware of his past life and humanity. But he still moves like a machine. It's like a hybridization of his Murphy and RoboCop performances.

They sort of ditched some of that in RoboCop 2. Didn't really like that. Note this scene. His voice no longer has that sort of robotic, metallic twinge. It sounds more "human." However, he also refers to himself as "Murphy" in the third person. He's sort of acknowledging that he "was" Murphy but the "thing" he is now is NOT Murphy.

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IMHO little details like this are why RoboCop is a classic and more than the sum of its parts.

Movie isn't even that long. It's only 97 minutes without closing credits.

 

[Aximili86]

Yeah, I'll be interested to see how they address that here. Yes, he should be more human like at the end of 1 here, given it's a sequel.

But at the same time, you're sort of introducing it to a partially-new audience, not everyone's going to have seen the original or the reboot, the younger blockbuster-target-demo type kids. They see "Robocop" and they're going to want some robotic-ish stuff.

Like anything, it's just a balancing act. With all this talk of "identity" from Neumeier & Miner, I don't know, maybe his mind was wiped/damaged when he was out of it all those years, so like...he's the "Murphy" we see at the end of 1, but his memory of the events is all skewed and he's therefore still dealing with the conflict? More human than in 1, but confused and with less-than-optimum computer functions and stuff?

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm not saying he has to be like that, but these are just little details of why I think the original is so special. It has subtlety, yes subtlety in a Verhoeven movie, gravitas and nuance. It has a lot of things I think many movies today lack and directors aren't willing to give the time to do.

It also has that sort of perfect blend of satire but also seriousness and stakes that I think a lot of other movies fail to replicate. And I think all other RoboCop offshoots have failed to pull off as well.

Like RoboCop 2, which I enjoy, I think for some people it felt TOO mean-spirited and graphically violent. Like the violence was more mean-spirited ugly violence rather than over-the-top cartoonish violence. Which I can sort of understand. But I still enjoy the fight with Cain and also Murphy's character arc.

But still, at the beginning of RoboCop 2, it's a direct continuation of the original. It continues the "Cops are on strike" subplot. But Murphy's character has sort of regressed and has lost some of the development that happened at the end of the original. It's one of those weird character resets you sometimes see in sequels.

 

[Aximili86]

I love how mean-spirited 2 is. Not sure it's any moreso than the original, and it's hardly glorifying any of it. All still presented as incredibly ****ed-up and a society gone to hell.

Totally agreed on the Murphy portrayal too, it's such a huge thing for them to just overlook as they did. All I can think is "people like Robocop, we'll keep him the Robocop he was for the whole first movie until the last 5 or so scenes".

 

[TheVileOne]

I think it's a good point Aximili86. Sometimes I think viewers confuse depiction of terrible acts as approval of said acts. When it's not the case.

Irvin Kershner IMHO is a very underrated director. I think RoboCop 2 is proof of his talents. I think that was his last or one of his last films. Such a shame IMHO.

If you guys ever want to check out a very good pre-Empire Strikes Back Irvin Kershner movie sometime, watch the Eyes of Laura Mars.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah that performance was just one of those perfect storms where all the stars just magically aligned and they made something classic and iconic.

And also, those subtle changes for Murphy in the third act. Even in his voice. He's a machine now, but he's aware of his past life and humanity. But he still moves like a machine. It's like a hybridization of his Murphy and RoboCop performances.

They sort of ditched some of that in RoboCop 2. Didn't really like that. Note this scene. His voice no longer has that sort of robotic, metallic twinge. It sounds more "human." However, he also refers to himself as "Murphy" in the third person. He's sort of acknowledging that he "was" Murphy but the "thing" he is now is NOT Murphy.

[YT]csvY2ot01yA[/YT]

IMHO little details like this are why RoboCop is a classic and more than the sum of its parts.

Movie isn't even that long. It's only 97 minutes without closing credits.

Totally agree with you about the original Vile. It’s one of my favourite movies ever. I don’t dislike Robocop 2, but it’s a serious step down from the first.

 

[2kt09]

Yeah, pretty much. People forget Weller was way more than just a voiceover there, the demeanor and movement was all a majority him. Pretty sure from memory on the DVD making-of stuff they made a big deal of him figuring all of that out personally and suggesting it to Verhoeven and the costume guys.

Sure, you could get some trained mimic body-double guy to just recreate it and have Peter do ADR, but it'd come off a little cheap and unsatisfying somehow, can't put my finger on why.

I don't even personally want Peter back here, but if you're getting someone else in the suit you might as well just do a clean-cut recast, have some faith in the actual actor hired to do it all. Hire an actor around the age he was back then, with a similar (doesn't have to be too crazy near-identical, just broadly reminiscent) face and tone of voice. Someone with actual acting chops like Peter had, and let them do their thing while still saluting the original.

Because mimicry is at best unnecessary for the prevailing robotic demeanor and movement based on where the movie left off and at worst laughable given the exaggerated 80s-90s articulation.

The hunt for the closest substitute sounds exactly like the other entries in this franchise. If they're at that point again, get someone different like Kinnaman was, let him do his own thing, and knock out this rebootquel.

 

[TheVileOne]

But if they do the REBOOTQUEL format, I mean...what makes them sure they can get it right this time?

IMHO movies are products of their times. Sometimes that dates them, but I also think that is also what elevates them. Sometimes I think physical or creative limits are what breed excellence and cause certain things like RoboCop to become extraordinary.

The production of RoboCop and Peter Weller put a lot of thought into how RoboCop is supposed to physically move.

And you know what, I'm sure for the Kinnaman movie a lot of people, maybe except for Sony, went in with the best of intentions. They still made an abomination. And they also tried to turn it PG-13. Just like the last two Terminator films.

Why is it that studios are so obsessed with franchises and demos? The original movies were R-rated and didn't care about making sure that little kids could see it with their parents. The attitude and content of a film matters.

The Deadpool R-rating was important because it made the 2016 movie refreshing. Because of the R-rating Deadpool could do things that other superhero movies could not. Sure, Deadpool in the comics had been PG-13 level before. But Reynolds and Tim Miller wanted to make something different and it was to the movie's strength.

 

[Warhammer]

I hate RoboCop 2 because it just disrespects the original film so much. The whole driving point of the original is the ghost in the machine. They forget all about it in the sequel in terms of Murphy's characterization.

And let's not forget that kid. He is such a trash character for the whole movie and during his death scene, it is meant to be sympathetic but I just found it jarring.

 

[Pennywise]

It'll be interesting to see how if they address Robocop regaining his humanity at the first one or they'll ignore it again, because there were some great moments like Murphy yelling out " Lewis!" after she gets injured at the junkyard and especially, the ending.

"Good shooting, son. What's your name?"
"Murphy."

 

[Alien Anal]

It'll be interesting to see how if they address Robocop regaining his humanity at the first one or they'll ignore it again, because there were some great moments like Murphy yelling out " Lewis!" after she gets injured at the junkyard and especially, the ending.

"Good shooting, son. What's your name?"
"Murphy."

Yep this really is the big question I think.


As far as casting goes I think Christian Bale could do a good Weller "impersonation".

 

[TheVileOne]

C'mon guys It's going to be Copley .

 

[StarLord]

As a villain maybe, yeah.

 

[Drizzle]

I can see Copley in a Boddicker-type role.

 

[Pennywise]

Should be interesting to see who's cast as Murphy/RoboCop.

 

[2kt09]

But if they do the REBOOTQUEL format, I mean...what makes them sure they can get it right this time?

By committing to the reboot portion of the -quel, since these various revived franchises have a lazy inclination for remakes. Even calling them "soft-reboot" feels like an understatement.

 

[Hurm...]

I think they'll go the Terminator: Genisys route and say that Robocop's skin has aged in order to keep Weller.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Should be interesting to see who's cast as Murphy/RoboCop.

Same, will it be somone who looks like Waller or will they simply go for the best actor for the role? It will be interesting for sure.

 

[Alien Anal]

I think they'll go the Terminator: Genisys route and say that Robocop's skin has aged in order to keep Weller.

I was talking about this today with some fellow dorks..for one I have no idea how they plan on making this a "sequel" when clearly Weller has aged, sure the idea for an aging Terminator kiiiinda works but for Robocop I dont see it being as believable.


Knowing how much Blomkamp is into visual Fx and trying to blur the grounds of the uncanny valley I wouldnt put it past him to use a de aged weller face along with prosthetics on whoever the actor they choose to be the new Murphy.

 

[Pennywise]

I got the idea of William Fichtner for RoboCop in my head for some reason. He might be be a bit old, depending on how many years RoboCop returns is set after the original. Still, he does look like Peter Weller and is a pretty good actor.

 

[TheVileOne]

Weller seems very physically fit and able for a man at 71. But would even want to wear that suit and helmet again? I think he's moved on. And I'd rather he not come back if he doesn't want to.

 

[Pennywise]

Weller seems very physically fit and able for a man at 71. But would even want to wear that suit and helmet again? I think he's moved on. And I'd rather he not come back if he doesn't want to.

Agreed, as much as that bums me out!

 

[Aximili86]

Fichtner's interesting, I could go along with that. Probably only if they're indeed going the significant-time-jump route though. But that's a cool notion, Fichtner. Hm.