Sequels Rotating the Roster?

[DrCosmic]

Where did whedon say he didn't want Wonder Man?

 

[BigThor]

Where did whedon say he didn't want Wonder Man?

He said it here in this interview a few days ago - http://www.theavengers2012-movie.com/2012/03/07/joss-whedon-man-talks-hulk/

 

[DrCosmic]

I see where he's coming from. Wonder Man does have potential though as a heel face turn, like in EMH. Of course, that means you need a Masters of Evil storyline, and I highly doubt that'll happen.

Why wouldn't he? It was already shown in Odin's weapons fault when the Frost Giants try to steal the Casket of Ancient Winters in Thor.

I see, you're right. I thought it would involve finding and explaining all the gems. It looks like the Gauntlet already has all the gems, so, no worries.

 

[MarvelKnight]

I got no problem after A1 taking her off the main roster for Avengers. I think they still want to make a SHIELD movie, and if that happens, I'm sure she'd have a supporting role, at the very least. Leave her to assist the Avengers in a SHIELD support role for A2 and/or A3

 

[BigThor]

Yeah I think it would make more sense for BW to return to being a shield agent after The Avengers, it would be faithful to her character while opening the doors to other members such as The Pyms or Black Panther.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well if BW goes, she has to be replaced with at least another female. It can't be BW substituted for Black Panther. I don't mind Panther joining but there needs to be other women. We don't need a sausage fest, and if Whedon is good at writing females, we should get that in these movies.

 

[BigThor]

Well if BW goes, she has to be replaced with at least another female. It can't be BW substituted for Black Panther. I don't mind Panther joining but there needs to be other women. We don't need a sausage fest, and if Whedon is good at writing females, we should get that in these movies.

Definately, I'd like for there to be atleast two females on the team so maybe they could keep her in 2nd film and the Pyms.

Then they could replace her entirely in Avengers 3 with Ms. Marvel and they could also add Black Panther although I'd like for him to be in A2 as well.

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't think they'll get rid of Black Widow. She's easy to explain (she's a secret agent), and she's the token female/sex appeal. She's also easy to slide in and out of other people's storylines (see Iron Man 2). She can also be used in romantic storylines. She has all plusses and no minuses. Even if they reduce her screen time, I just don't see them taking her out.

And while I love me some Ms. Marvel... she doesn't have a movie being prepped (and Jan's movie, afawk, is not in continuity), leaving Black Widow as the sole chick for Avengers 2 as well.

 

[MarvelKnight]

Well, I think they have time between A1 and A2 to get a Ms. Marvel movie done, plus if you could introduce Danvers as military in this movie, in the very least. Hell, maybe we see mar-vell in his human cloaked form and we don't even know it. I'm sure it's not likely, but not impossible either, imo

 

[Incredible Hans]

Avengers members I'd like to see in future films (order of preference):

- Henry Pym & Wasp
- Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver
- Hercules
- She-Hulk
- Vision
- Namor
- Black Panther
- Ares
- Black Knight

 

[DrCosmic]

Does anyone ever wonder if the films will get crowded, i mean... having six characters with equal screen time is rough as it is... seven or eight would be... perhaps undoable, or weak to the point that some people start to pale in comparison.

 

[Dark Raven]

Does anyone ever wonder if the films will get crowded, i mean... having six characters with equal screen time is rough as it is... seven or eight would be... perhaps undoable, or weak to the point that some people start to pale in comparison.

That's probably the reason why in the comics they limited the roster to 7 members. However, the films can have background characters who don't need development. It's sometimes nice to see cameos by people who are essentially extras.

 

[MarvelKnight]

Does anyone ever wonder if the films will get crowded, i mean... having six characters with equal screen time is rough as it is... seven or eight would be... perhaps undoable, or weak to the point that some people start to pale in comparison.

Yeah, I've always thought there could be supporting heroes (if the story warrants it and it makes sense) to assist the Avengers, but keep the principle team the same.

If they decide to stop using a character on the main team and want to substitute for a future film, so be it, but quality over quantity.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Yeah, I've always thought there could be supporting heroes (if the story warrants it and it makes sense) to assist the Avengers, but keep the principle team the same.

If they decide to stop using a character on the main team and want to substitute for a future film, so be it, but quality over quantity.

The X-Men films had a many supporting heroes who didn't get any background stories... nothing at all for Colossus, not very much for Storm...

 

[Dark Raven]

These old Hollywood movies like The Longest Day or Towering Inferno had stars in every frame even if they were just cameos. They could always do that with some characters, even if they didn't want to play a large role or weren't around to do any filming. At least they would get to make a small appearance.

 

[DrCosmic]

Interesting. I brought it up because I thought it was very interesting that all six Avengers were getting equal screen time, and I wondered how the transition would be if they decided not to do that for the next film... especially for a smaller movie, so to speak.

 

[cherokeesam]

That's probably the reason why in the comics they limited the roster to 7 members. However, the films can have background characters who don't need development. It's sometimes nice to see cameos by people who are essentially extras.

Um....what?
The Avengers have *never* been limited to seven members. They've had *hundreds* of metas on their roster --- and not just as a totality, but at *any given time.* Avengers comics have been famous for epic two-page "centerfold" frames featuring literally hundreds of superheroes warring against an army of baddies.

 

[Dark Raven]

Um....what?
The Avengers have *never* been limited to seven members. They've had *hundreds* of metas on their roster --- and not just as a totality, but at *any given time.* Avengers comics have been famous for epic two-page "centerfold" frames featuring literally hundreds of superheroes warring against an army of baddies.

Wrong. Especially that *never* bit.

Read this comic:

Until Avengers 181 they did have hundreds on their roster (eg in the whole Korvac saga). However, Henry Peter Gyrich instituted a new government rule that they were only allowed to have 7 in their active duty roster because they were getting out of hand. Their airspace was restricted and other measures put in place. Afterwards, Captain America kept to this seven-member format when their team roster rotated. The only time they called in all the reserve members was for these epic battles, but otherwise for any regular operation they stuck to a strict small number of 7 maximum.

Get your history straight. This is a well-known fact.

 

[cherokeesam]

Avengers Bylaws.
Section Two: Membership.

C. The Avengers shall select new members whenever the Chairbeing or two-thirds of the active membership determines that the ranks are not at optimal strength, or when there is a vacancy in the ranks.

• 1. It shall be the prerogative of the Chairbeing to limit the number of active members.

How many issues of Avengers did NOT feature the whole team, plus how many ever reserves, fighting raging hordes? I don't recall *any* in my collection that featured less than a dozen or so teaming up at any given time.

The whole Gyrich thing was a plot gimmick of the early 80s that proved to be very unpopular with Avengers fans, and led summarily to the creation of the West Coast Avengers to expand the roster even further, and further afield.

I see no reason that Marvel Studios would try to impose a 7-man limit on the MCU version of the Avengers. Especially when Fury has already mentioned the existence of many other superhumans out there. Just speculating on this, but I'd be very surprised if Marvel *doesn't* reveal that there are already other Avengers out there assigned to other projects, including training, who may or may not be referenced by name.

 

[BigThor]

Yeah the Avengers does have a notoriously large roster in the comics, but I think they should keep the roster relatively small in the first few films.

 

[Dark Raven]

Avengers Bylaws.
Section Two: Membership.

C. The Avengers shall select new members whenever the Chairbeing or two-thirds of the active membership determines that the ranks are not at optimal strength, or when there is a vacancy in the ranks.

• 1. It shall be the prerogative of the Chairbeing to limit the number of active members.

How many issues of Avengers did NOT feature the whole team, plus how many ever reserves, fighting raging hordes? I don't recall *any* in my collection that featured less than a dozen or so teaming up at any given time.

The whole Gyrich thing was a plot gimmick of the early 80s that proved to be very unpopular with Avengers fans, and led summarily to the creation of the West Coast Avengers to expand the roster even further, and further afield.

I see no reason that Marvel Studios would try to impose a 7-man limit on the MCU version of the Avengers. Especially when Fury has already mentioned the existence of many other superhumans out there. Just speculating on this, but I'd be very surprised if Marvel *doesn't* reveal that there are already other Avengers out there assigned to other projects, including training, who may or may not be referenced by name.

It would be for the sake of character development. It's just like an ensemble cast in a TV series. Think of something like Star Trek - any of their various series or even the current movies. You have about 7 or so members in the main cast but there are hundreds of crew members in the background serving on the ship.

I am sure that limiting the roster to 7 in the comics was for a similar reason so that Marvel could concentrate on key characters and their development more easily.

Even in A:EMH it's not hundreds on that team. It's still about 7 or so.

As for there not being less than a dozen on a team, does your collection only start in the last 20 years? What about

1) The original team: 5 members
2) Cap's kooky quartet: 5 (including Cap)
3) Avengers first meeting with Graviton: 10 members
4) The whole Pym saga that everyone keeps bringing up where he hits his wife: 7 members
5) Avengers 181 onwards: 7 members
6) The New Avengers (when Spider-Woman first joined the team): 8 members

I'm getting bored of listing because there are too many occasions and that would be like citing over half their stories.

 

[DrCosmic]

I see no reason that Marvel Studios would try to impose a 7-man limit on the MCU version of the Avengers. Especially when Fury has already mentioned the existence of many other superhumans out there. Just speculating on this, but I'd be very surprised if Marvel *doesn't* reveal that there are already other Avengers out there assigned to other projects, including training, who may or may not be referenced by name.

No reason? I guess this is what I was getting at, besides what works in comics where all the characters are well established and cared for, what about a film? Isn't there a reason we only got four X-Men instead of 7... or fourteen? I mean... why not have Toro and Union Jack and some other Golden Agers in the Captain America Movie?

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't reveal that there was more than what we've seen. They've taken great care to bring the General Audience along for every step of the journey, give them a chance to care for the characters just like comics fans do. I don't think they would just scrap that to put in some easter eggs for fanboys.

Also, even for fanboys, what if your favorite character got short-sticked? They used to be a full avengers, and now they're just a cameo. It's not like in comics where you can just go see them in their own book... you may not see them again for another 2-3 years... or ever?

 

[cherokeesam]

No reason? I guess this is what I was getting at, besides what works in comics where all the characters are well established and cared for, what about a film? Isn't there a reason we only got four X-Men instead of 7... or fourteen? I mean... why not have Toro and Union Jack and some other Golden Agers in the Captain America Movie?

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't reveal that there was more than what we've seen. They've taken great care to bring the General Audience along for every step of the journey, give them a chance to care for the characters just like comics fans do. I don't think they would just scrap that to put in some easter eggs for fanboys.

Also, even for fanboys, what if your favorite character got short-sticked? They used to be a full avengers, and now they're just a cameo. It's not like in comics where you can just go see them in their own book... you may not see them again for another 2-3 years... or ever?

What about Ocean's Eleven? Or Ocean's 12 or 13? Or The Dirty Dozen? None of those films was ever accused of short-changing any of the characters.....they all were equally interesting, and had enough personality established that you knew who they were by the end of the film. There's no reason an Avengers film couldn't expand out to that size, either.

Especially in a sequel. You won't even have to backstory any of the seven main characters you choose to recycle from the initial team film --- Cap, Thor, Hulk, IM, Hawkeye, Widow or Fury. Gives you more time to develop, say, Black Panther or Hank & Janet or whoever else.

Also, I'm a bit baffled at your head count for the X-Men movies.
X1: Wolverine, Iceman, Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Jean Grey, The Professor.
X2: As above, with Nightcrawler and Pyro upping the roster to 9.
X3: *Everybody.*

 

[DrCosmic]

What about Ocean's Eleven? Or Ocean's 12 or 13? Or The Dirty Dozen? None of those films was ever accused of short-changing any of the characters.....they all were equally interesting, and had enough personality established that you knew who they were by the end of the film. There's no reason an Avengers film couldn't expand out to that size, either.

That's because most of the characters no one cared about. They were stock characters talked in group shots and did their job. There's no way Don Cheadle's character was as interesting as Clooney, Pitt or Damon's. He wasn't intended to be. He was a minor character. All the rest were.

Avengers is different. It knows the audience already cares about each of the characters (except Hawkeye, but that'll change once it comes out), and it respects all of them, so they all have arcs and time to shine and more or less equal screen time. If you have all these characters that people care about, and then you bringing them on screen just to shortchange them, it's gonna bring a lot different reaction than seeing a minor character in Oceans 11 and finding out he's still, obviously, a minor character in Oceans 12.

Especially in a sequel. You won't even have to backstory any of the seven main characters you choose to recycle from the initial team film --- Cap, Thor, Hulk, IM, Hawkeye, Widow or Fury. Gives you more time to develop, say, Black Panther or Hank & Janet or whoever else.

They still have to have an arc though, or become cameos with little to no screen time like the Oceans 13 characters. If you have a 'smaller' movie like is planned for Avengers, then you don't actually have any additional time if you keep the initial team, because they all have personal arcs you're going to get into.

Also, I'm a bit baffled at your head count for the X-Men movies.
X1: Wolverine, Iceman, Storm, Rogue, Cyclops, Jean Grey, The Professor.
X2: As above, with Nightcrawler and Pyro upping the roster to 9.
X3: *Everybody.*

Rogue, Iceman and The Professor are X-Men in the comics, but they were not in the films. By the time we got to Last Stand there were six X-Men, one of which didn't even have any lines in the film. The films were basically Wolverine movies, with a lot of cameos and a couple actual secondary characters who mattered. Like the Ocean's 11 movies, actually. Because Avengers is doing it right and starting as an actual ensemble, I don't think regressing to the Oceans 11 model (2-3 important heroes, and a number of one-dimensional ones) will work, particularly because attachment to the characters is what helps suspend disbelief at their incredible abilities.

 

[BigThor]

Another thing fans need to understand is that the Avengers won't become a full fledged team until the end of the film, I think they deserve atleast sequel where they're a team from start to finish before any major roster changes.

A couple of additional members and maybe one member leaving would be fine, but basically the same team as the first film.