The Last Jedi Rotten tomatoes score?

[batman1]

RT has been proven to be not reliable. I see it being replaced in the next 5 years.

 

[Spider-Fan]

RT has been around for a long time, so I highly doubt it.

 

[Mjölnir]

RT has been proven to be not reliable. I see it being replaced in the next 5 years.

How isn't it reliable? Are you saying that they aren't tallying up the reviews correctly? Because that's all that RT does. They are just counting all the reviews from the associated critics and give us the aggregate.

Whether that aggregate tends to align with your opinions or not is irrelevant, it's not there to tell you what you will think, it just says what the critics thought.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How isn't it reliable? Are you saying that they aren't tallying up the reviews correctly? Because that's all that RT does. They are just counting all the reviews from the associated critics and give us the aggregate.

Whether that aggregate tends to align with your opinions or not is irrelevant, it's not there to tell you what you will think, it just says what the critics thought.

Critics write their own reviews, RT merely just links them and scores whether it was Fresh or Rotten to that critic (which the critic chooses). RT does not review films or score it themselves. Further, whether you agree with them or not, there will always be film critics.

 

[Agent Orange]

You seem like you're being overly defensive as that article is about the Fox acquisition, which means a big focus on the MCU and very little on Star Wars. Ergo you're not adding anything, the MCU aspect was already there.

If anything this issue has been discussed quite a bit around the MCU on this forum, most likely more so than around Star Wars.

Apparently I need to state the obvious. We have people like batman1 making ridiculous assertions about "Disney checks being cashed".

 

[Aximili86]

The "Disney is paying off reviewers" crap again? Seriously?

I thought we were past this ridiculous stuff.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The "Disney is paying off reviewers" crap again? Seriously?

I thought we were past this ridiculous stuff.

There will always people that just cannot accept the reality that some may just disagree with them for a non-ridiculous reason.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The "Disney is paying off reviewers" crap again? Seriously?

I thought we were past this ridiculous stuff.

They'll continue to believe it because The critics dont align with their views. They just cant accept the fact that a lot more people loved it than they realize.

 

[Mjölnir]

Apparently I need to state the obvious. We have people like batman1 making ridiculous assertions about "Disney checks being cashed".

He didn't post that article, nor did the article have any angle towards Star Wars (SW isn't even mentioned, and it's pretty irrelevant in relation to Fox), so I still see no reason to needing to say that you're bringing the MCU into it when that's been discussed far more than SW regarding the Fox merger.

 

[dataSlave]

I've never seen a bigger disconnect between the critics and audiences. 90% vs 50% at RT. And that reaction explains the weird box office pattern too. Glowing critical reviews fed the huge opening weekend. Once word of mouth replaced reviewers as the primary driver of audience decisions, TLJ dropped off faster than any major movie that I'm aware of - $220 million to $70 million in a week. This movie will not come close to a 3.0 multiple on opening weekend.

I see conspiracy theories on both sides. People who hated TLJ are talking about critics being bought off. People who loved TLJ are pushing the meme that mediocre audience scores are the result of some nefarious hacking plot. But the box office pattern is exactly what you'd expect if critics loved the movie and audiences were lukewarm to it. The hacking conspiracy theory makes no sense because the data reflect real mixed feelings. There is no evidence to support payoff conspiracy theory.

 

[Prettyricky]

Rotten tomatoes is nothing more then a conversation starter. I would never let critics decide what I do or dont see. I think the website is more dangerous then anything as its power of influence

 

[Frodo]

For a film like TLJ RT really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. Its a SW event film in which people would turn out regardless of the reviews.

Where RT can make a difference is those films which are on the border or look like they could go either way. However, people were gonna see the next SW film critics be damned even if it had a 50% rating.

There's so much hype around the film people were gonna turn out anyway, critics be damned.

 

[dataSlave]

For a film like TLJ RT really doesn't make a difference one way or the other. Its a SW event film in which people would turn out regardless of the reviews.

Where RT can make a difference is those films which are on the border or look like they could go either way. However, people were gonna see the next SW film critics be damned even if it had a 50% rating.

I partially agree with you about the opening weekend. It would have been good under almost any circumstances but $220 mil was well above expectations. But the 69% drop for 2nd W/E is unprecedented for a SW movie. Rogue One was the largest drop previously at 60%. TFA and AotC both had 40% drops. RoTS dropped 49% and Phantom Menace dropped 20%.

It could be just coincidence that the movie with the biggest disconnect between critics and audience ratings also saw the biggest drop once word of mouth from friends and family was available. I don't believe in coincidences that big when a perfectly logical explanation is staring me in the face.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I partially agree with you about the opening weekend. It would have been good under almost any circumstances but $220 mil was well above expectations. But the 69% drop for 2nd W/E is unprecedented for a SW movie. Rogue One was the largest drop previously at 60%. TFA and AotC both had 40% drops. RoTS dropped 49% and Phantom Menace dropped 20%.

It could be just coincidence that the movie with the biggest disconnect between critics and audience ratings also saw the biggest drop once word of mouth from friends and family was available. I don't believe in coincidences that big when a perfectly logical explanation is staring me in the face.

To be fair, this is a new era in BO where drops of 60% are not exactly becoming uncommon, and further TLJ made so much up front that a high drop was likely. That said, it was higher than expected by most, for sure.

 

[Infinity9999x]

To be fair, this is a new era in BO where drops of 60% are not exactly becoming uncommon, and further TLJ made so much up front that a high drop was likely. That said, it was higher than expected by most, for sure.

Also, we have to take into account that most of the Midwest was slammed by a massive storm that kept most people home, in addition to it being Christmas weekend the second weekend. I experienced the storm first hand because I was flying from NYC to visit my family in Michigan that weekend. That was a fun trip.

Those factors certainly played a role. I'm not saying fan disappointment didn't also play a role, but ignoring the effect the weather and holiday schedule had is simply cherry picking data. It's similar to the people that forget to factor in the theater shooting that happened during TDKR box office run and try to paint it's "underperforming" as fan disappointment.

 

[dataSlave]

To be fair, this is a new era in BO where drops of 60% are not exactly becoming uncommon, and further TLJ made so much up front that a high drop was likely. That said, it was higher than expected by most, for sure.

Things have certainly changed in 15-20 years so feel free to disregard the data from the prequel trilogy if you feel it's not comparable. Just used RO and TFA along with other current movies. We can start with the current competition at the top of the box office. Pitch Perfect 3 dropped 16% from OW to 2nd W/E. Jumanji ROSE 38%.


If you look at the top of the 2017 marquee, you'll find that 50% is pretty typical for 1st to 2nd W/E drop. Wonder Woman did -43%. B&B, It, Thor, DM3 were all 50% +/- 5%. Guardians 2 Justice league and Logan were 56-57%. Only Spiderman (62%) and Fate of the Furious (61%) crossed the 60% line. Even in 2017, TLJ is out there alone at 69%. I think it's fair to say that something more than normal industry dynamics is at work here.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Things have certainly changed in 15-20 years so feel free to disregard the data from the prequel trilogy if you feel it's not comparable. Just used RO and TFA along with other current movies. We can start with the current competition at the top of the box office. Pitch Perfect 3 dropped 16% from OW to 2nd W/E. Jumanji ROSE 38%.


If you look at the top of the 2017 marquee, you'll find that 50% is pretty typical for 1st to 2nd W/E drop. Wonder Woman did -43%. B&B, It, Thor, DM3 were all 50% +/- 5%. Guardians 2 Justice league and Logan were 56-57%. Only Spiderman (62%) and Fate of the Furious (61%) crossed the 60% line. Even in 2017, TLJ is out there alone at 69%. I think it's fair to say that something more than normal industry dynamics is at work here.

All these movies made significantly less than TLJ did. Remember, the final Harry Potter movie had a monster 72% drop. Does that mean everyone hated it?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

RT has been around for a long time, so I highly doubt it.

Almost 20 years. Chances are RT has been around longer than some of the posters on this forum have been alive.

 

[dataSlave]

All these movies made significantly less than TLJ did. Remember, the final Harry Potter movie had a monster 72% drop. Does that mean everyone hated it?

Beauty & the Beast is still bigger globally than TLJ and domestic cume is very comparable. It dropped 48% the 2nd W/E. Wonder Woman is the next highest grossing film after that and it only dropped 43%. Those are the best comps in 2017. Both of those movies out grossed any Harry Potter movie and are much more recent to boot. Fastest declining movie of 2017 is not a title to be envied. We have to go back 6.5 years to find something comparable. Nothing recent is close.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Beauty & the Beast is still bigger globally than TLJ and domestic cume is very comparable. It dropped 48% the 2nd W/E. Wonder Woman is the next highest grossing film after that and it only dropped 43%. Those are the best comps in 2017. Both of those movies out grossed any Harry Potter movie and are much more recent to boot. Fastest declining movie of 2017 is not a title to be envied. We have to go back 6.5 years to find something comparable. Nothing recent is close.

TLJ had a massive first weekend opening that BB could not compare to. Also, the second weekend for TLJ was hit with a massive snowstorm that kept most of the midwest at home, and it was Christmas weekend. All of these are going to factor into the drop it experienced. In addition to having other films that attract the same demographic TLJ draws.

Yes, it had a big drop, but with the money it's making, it is in no way indicative of a massive amount of dissatisfied fans. This article details it well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...tar-wars-the-last-jedi-is-wrong/#1ea33b7039b5

 

[dataSlave]

TLJ had a massive first weekend opening that BB could not compare to. Also, the second weekend for TLJ was hit with a massive snowstorm that kept most of the midwest at home, and it was Christmas weekend. All of these are going to factor into the drop it experienced. In addition to having other films that attract the same demographic TLJ draws.

Yes, it had a big drop, but with the money it's making, it is in no way indicative of a massive amount of dissatisfied fans. This article details it well:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhu...tar-wars-the-last-jedi-is-wrong/#1ea33b7039b5

The weather argument leaves me cold. In financial analysis it's the first excuse retailers always go to when they miss sales targets. So it's a big red flag for me. The cold weather should not have been enough to overcome the positive of the holiday calendar to create the largest week 2 drop for any major movie in years.

Unfortunately the data tells a very different story. If there was a big weather-related drop it should have affected all films over the Xmas weekend. But I can find no evidence that either the total box office or other individual movies got hammered. Yes, total w/e box office dropped from $267.2 mil to $164.4 mil but that was all TLJ and then some. Non-TLJ box office basically doubled week to week from $47.2 mil to $92.8 mil.

There was tougher competition sure. But none of the hold over films fell that much either. Ferdinand was the only film to launch on the same day as TLJ. It dropped 45% the 2nd w/e. Coco dropped 46% in its 5th w/e. Darkest Hour and Shape of Water both went much wider, multiplying the number of screens by several hundred percent so those rises aren't really comparable. The rest of the films that took in even $2 million were all in their opening week.

So the data sample size is small but individual movies didn't show a larger than normal drop for the Xmas weekend either other than TLJ. Nor did the weather stop strong OW for several films premiering Christmas weekend. I think the weather argument can be safely dismissed. There certainly is no evidence to support it impacting any film other than TLJ.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The "Disney is paying off reviewers" crap again? Seriously?

I thought we were past this ridiculous stuff.

It's all very confusing. Here's what I gather reading the DC boards.

The critics are paid up. But the films are also butchered by studio interference.

So they are mad that the films that they admit are butchered aren't getting perfect reviews.

They are masterpieces, but also compromised by studio heads.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

That's why they loved BvS so much! Plus BvS had much better script than TLJ. So... It isn't that.

They love bold choices, they don't love the cinematic equivalent of the tv show jackass.

BvS had a filthy script. It was an affront to humanity.

 

[007]

Rotten tomatoes is nothing more then a conversation starter. I would never let critics decide what I do or dont see. I think the website is more dangerous then anything as its power of influence

I would. If i were left up to my own devices i would of gone to see the snowman with fassbender.

 

[LucDisfilm19]

Armond White made it drop to 90%, but, if it can get one more Fresh review, it can hit 91% again.