The Last Jedi Rotten tomatoes score?

[cristianegan]

63 + 47 = 110 tho

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The Associated Press - 'The Last Jedi' is a hit but how much did audiences like it?

Yet regardless of any user scores, “The Last Jedi” has proved to be easily the most divisive “Star Wars” film. (Lucas’ second trilogy was too universally panned to be much argued over.)

Even many fans who generally applauded the film have taken issue with its comic flashes, a Princess Leia moment roundly compared to Mary Poppins, and of the film’s treatment of Hamill’s Skywalker. (Cantankerous and ornery, he spends most of the film on an isolated island.) And by shifting the parameters for how the Force works, some have said “The Last Jedi” is, as Variety claimed, “making stuff up as it goes along.”

For its part, Disney has sensed the tremors of backlash.

“Rian Johnson, the cast, Lucasfilm, they’ve delivered an experience that is totally ‘Star Wars’ but at the same time is filled with things that are unexpected and new,” said Hollis. “And in that unexpected and new, it’s going to have people really talking.”

Even the cast of “The Last Jedi” acknowledged they were surprised by the direction mapped out by Johnson, who wrote and directed. “What Rian came up with, I was stunned,” Hamill told The Associated Press earlier this year. Said Daisy Ridley of first reading the script: “I was going, ‘Uh, I’m not sure about this. It just took us all a second to be like, ‘OK, this is where the story is heading.”

But Johnson made “The Last Jedi” disruptive by design.

“Having been a Star Wars fan myself for the past 40 years, I know intimately how passionate they are about it and how everyone has stuff they love and hate in every single movie,” said Johnson. “That takes the pressure off a little bit just thinking, ‘Ok, there’s going to be stuff that everyone likes, there’s going to be stuff that people don’t like and it’s going to be a mixture.”‘

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/enterta...i-is-a-hit-but-how-much-did-audiences-like-it

 

[fancyarcher]

They planted The Shape of Water with fake Star Wars reviews. Yeah this is clearly the works of trolls. Sure some people dislike it, but I doubt it affects the box office.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think it's that simple as Kylo clearly showed that he couldn't kill Leia. He didn't just hesitate, he chose not to attack at all. Perhaps in part due to killing Han actually weakened him, which sounds like his darkness is fighting against his nature.

I think it's possible that there was ideas for a Ben redemption through seeing Leia alive in Episode IX, although that of course won't happen now.

This is the entire build up to the Throne Room scene. He then makes his choice and reacts accordingly.

 

[spiderman2]

So movie now has 312 reviews and is at a 93% and a 8.2 average. Those scores are the same has TFA. TFA has 378 reviews so if this does the same we have 66 more reviews to go. So at this point I think we are looking at a 93 finish most likely maybe a 94.

 

[egg]

this movie got some amazing passes from critics mayne! it will probably end up at a 93 but feels like a 53 . yaya the rt scores are just an average of all critics, and it's not a grade. holy duck liver this was not the best sw film though.

 

[Leenie]

The Associated Press - 'The Last Jedi' is a hit but how much did audiences like it?



http://nationalpost.com/pmn/enterta...i-is-a-hit-but-how-much-did-audiences-like-it

So the movie tried to have it both ways, and as a result, failed on both fronts (if you ask me).

The more I think about it, the less "risky" this movie becomes. This film is nothing more than a soggy and limp half-measure.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Spanish film site (with 550,000 members) with currently 8,000+ user votes (6.6 out of 10).

https://m.filmaffinity.com/es/movieuserreviews.php?movie_id=668878

French film site with currently 7000+ user votes (3.1 out of 5).

http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm-215099/critiques/spectateurs/

Lots of negative written reviews.

 

[Frodo]

So the movie tried to have it both ways, and as a result, failed on both fronts (if you ask me).

Well one of the main problems is that they had two different filmmakers with two very different visions and ideas about where the new series should go.

JJ set expectations and clearly had something different in mind with the characters going forward .

Johnson came along , dropped those ideas, and did his own thing . As a result, TLJ was effectively a soft reboot of TFA .

So now you have two different visions in conflict and the fanbases are split between the two separate visions in addition to the fans of the OT who may or not like how they handled the OT characters.

 

[Mjölnir]

This is the entire build up to the Throne Room scene. He then makes his choice and reacts accordingly.

It has no appearance of being a final choice than any other he's made, and the only time we can be sure is when there's no way to choose anymore.

Case in point; Anakin very clearly made his choice when he sided with Sidious and it held for decades with full conviction, until it suddenly didn't anymore and he made a new choice.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It has no appearance of being a final choice than any other he's made, and the only time we can be sure is when there's no way to choose anymore.

Case in point; Anakin very clearly made his choice when he sided with Sidious and it held for decades with full conviction, until it suddenly didn't anymore and he made a new choice.

The narrative structure between Kylo and Vader is different. The PT builds itself around his heel turn, knowing already well and good where Vader goes in 4-6. To the audience, Vader's turn feels natural because within the OT, he is presented that chance at the climax, and takes it. It is not like in the OT he has the chance at redemption and keeps turning it down. He does in the PT, but those were made after the fact, so it is not the same. Kylo conversely has had this same chance 2 times in the narrative and got more evil each time. One is a fluke, 2 is a trend.

 

[Mjölnir]

The narrative structure between Kylo and Vader is different. The PT builds itself around his heel turn, knowing already well and good where Vader goes in 4-6. To the audience, Vader's turn feels natural because within the OT, he is presented that chance at the climax, and takes it. It is not like in the OT he has the chance at redemption and keeps turning it down. He does in the PT, but those were made after the fact, so it is not the same. Kylo conversely has had this same chance 2 times in the narrative and got more evil each time. One is a fluke, 2 is a trend.

I think it's more likely that he stays bad, but TLJ has plenty of obvious subversion where something is hinted and then something else happens, so in that line they could just have him go darker until he makes the opposite choice. It's really just up to the whims of the writers, and there's also unpredictability since there's a tangible difference between the writing style of TFA and TLJ, which makes it possible that Episode IX will feel different as well.

 

[The_Lost]

I'm not so much looking at critics reviews because I place no store in them. Audience reviews are now sitting at 55 percent with approximately 117,000 responses. Justice league with the same amount of responses is sitting at 79 percent audience likes.
I enjoyed Justice league. I did not enjoy Star wars. I believe a beloved part of my youth has been maliciously molested and no one will be brought to justice for it.
Sad days. Sad days.

 

[Webhead38]

Correct. The only universal truth really you can trust is your own. After all, you experience life your way and from your perspective. It's the most honest.

THIS. Exactly how I feel. I did not care for this film but I know Spider-fan did like it and that's great. Money better spent on that end than on mine. I would never consider debating the points because it's just opinion and nothing more. I'm glad the experience was positive for Spider-Fan.

What has fascinated me is how much the reaction is so starkly different. And I'm talking well past the forum experience. I had a good friend of mine text me last night. He had just left the theater having seen this. Hated it. He said he'll never watch another one again. Now I didn't care for it either, but it hasn't inspired me to chuck the franchise. It's a movie, not a political candidate.

And then I read this article from the New York Times that is looking into the dismay as well. Very interesting read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/movies/the-last-jedi-fans-critics.html

They explore the troll theories and took a Facebook poll themselves that seem to suggest there IS merit to that RT rating. Once again its a sampling and nobody knows who responded to that so I'm not sure it proves anything. But one thing is for sure. There is definitely a divide on this film and it's out there in the conversation. That is not trolling, that is simply present with all people from all walks of life. I'm seeing that in my own cross section of friends and family members.

And I find it's not always a generational thing. Some of my friend's kids hated it while others enjoyed it. Not finding many in the middle though. At least not yet. I'm in my 50's and was in seventh grade when the first Star Wars came out so I was in that original demographic for these films. Do I think that factors in? If I'm being completely honest, I think it has to. But some times that services me well.

When I saw Phantom Menace opening weekend I thought that was the dumbest thing I had ever seen. I had a hard time believing Lucas made that movie. Still do. But everyone around me lost their minds and loved it. I thought that was bizarre, but I also applied it to that nostalgic high people get in WANTING something to be special again. It was "Star Wars", not the movie it actually was. So people forgave allot, over-stated plenty, but eventually found the ground. Now it's not so loved. BUT that movie got a Cinema score of A and everyone celebrated the return of Star Wars before they looked at it objectively. Last Jedi is in a very precarious spot I've never seen one of these films in. It already has it's rabid critics right out of the gate and I find that odd.

So having seen each of these films in the theater since it's inception, I can definitely say this movie has a decidedly different response entirely.And while I understand and appreciate the theories to try and reason it all, I can definitely say the divide is well outside the internet. What it means, I have no idea. But if my life history of watching these films has taught me anything, its that everything shakes out in the end and a different consensus is reached after the hype dies down.Every single Star Wars movie has gone through that. This one will too.

So this divide is officially part of it's legacy. What that means over time is not determined yet. And no, Empire did not play like this. Sorry, that thinking is wrong. I was finishing my freshman year in high school when that came out. That film was dark, but honestly it established Vader as the greatest villain of all time and had fans clamoring to see how Luke would answer back. It was a great cliffhanger. Empire did not splinter the fan base like this at all. So the comparison is not well founded.

To me the next hurdle will be the second weekend gross. Strategically it gets a four day gross due to Christmas being on Monday. But that three day total is going to give more insight into the overall reception and word of mouth. It's been a fascinating story to watch unfold, but where it lands in the greater picture of the franchise is yet to be told.

 

[Frodo]

I think if anything, TLJ has shown that SW as a franchise isn't as malleable as perhaps Johnson and Disney thought.

Its an institution like Bond, like the Superman and Batman in which certain expectations , fair or not, come with the saga and the characters.

Once you challenge those or throw out the status quo, fair or not, you face an inevitable backlash and tension. How big the backlash is and which score is more accurate is really irrelevant when it comes down to it.

At this point there's is clearly a divide within the fan base with regards to this particular that wasn't as strong in the other SW films.

Its making headlines and has gotten to the point in which Disney and Johnson have publicly responded to it, so to argument that its just a small band if dissatisfied people is putting the head straight in the sand.

Whether this backlash, to whatever size or extent, effects the next film or even other potential sw spinoffs will be interesting to see.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

“The authenticity of our critic and user scores is very important to us and as a course of regular business, we have a team of security, network, social and database experts who closely monitor our platforms,” a spokesperson for Rotten Tomatoes told Quartz. “They haven’t seen any unusual user activity.

“For Star Wars: The Last Jedi, we have seen an uptick in people posting written user reviews, as fans are very passionate about this movie and the franchise. The number of written reviews being posted by fans is comparable to Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” the spokesperson added.

https://qz.com/1160551/the-rotten-tomatoes-score-for-the-last-jedi-may-be-rigged/

 

[BatLobster]

I think that's a fair statement Webhead. I'm more in the "pro" camp for this film, but I think it's fair to say there's a pretty real divide, but I think it's most interesting in that there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to where it is. It's a person to person thing. It's hard to tell how much of this is confined to serious fans/geeks as opposed to more casual fans though.

Time will tell. At the very least, you can't say LFL/Disney wasn't willing to take a risk here.

The more distance I get from the film though, the more I feel like it felt like it took crazy risks but in actuality, it's mostly just another Star Wars film. The 8th one in the series that clearly aims to subvert expectations, but still a Star Wars film and very much 'of' the saga.

I think the big thing going in its favor for the test of time test, is ultimately it won't be judged for how well it answered questions from TFA because there won't be a two year wait and tons of theories driving anticipation for future generations watching it, and there will also be a 3rd/9th film to give it all further context.

 

[Frodo]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Episode 9 is praised much like this one is in a couple of years with TLJ getting the shaft . It wasn't that long ago that TFA was considered to be "the best ever" and those who didn't like it were considered a minority of trolls.

Now TLJ is considered far superior and TFA considered "too safe" and "inferior".

Truth be told, In a couple years time alot of the inflamed passions on both sides will subside once people have had time to cool off.

 

[Sithborg]

It is possible to love both.

 

[BatLobster]

TLJ actually makes me more okay with TFA than I've been feeling as of late. I feel like we're 2/3 of the way to a very good trilogy.

Every fan is going to have their own order, of course.

 

[InCali]

How did the Phantom Menace manage a PG rating with Darth Maul being sliced in half?

I guess they don't have a PG-6.5 rating?? Maybe they split the difference??

So help me, Dark Raven has this Jedi mind control thing going.

EDIT: Do you prefer Darth Maul or Snoke? Are people about 50/50 on this?

 

[Webhead38]

I think that's a fair statement Webhead. I'm more in the "pro" camp for this film, but I think it's fair to say there's a pretty real divide, but I think it's most interesting in that there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to where it is. It's a person to person thing. It's hard to tell how much of this is confined to serious fans/geeks as opposed to more casual fans though.

Time will tell. At the very least, you can't say LFL/Disney wasn't willing to take a risk here.

The more distance I get from the film though, the more I feel like it felt like it took crazy risks but in actuality, it's mostly just another Star Wars film. The 8th one in the series that clearly aims to subvert expectations, but still a Star Wars film and very much 'of' the saga.

I think the big thing going in its favor for the test of time test, is ultimately it won't be judged for how well it answered questions from TFA because there won't be a two year wait and tons of theories driving anticipation for future generations watching it, and there will also be a 3rd/9th film to give it all further context.

Thanks BatLobsterRises. I think the most fascinating thing about these films is how possessive some people get from the moment they come out. As much as people love to destroy the Phantom Menace these days and critics and industry analysts point to it's "obvious flaws", none of those were seen when this movie was new.

People quit (or got fired) from their jobs to be the first to see this new film. I bet you don't see those same people standing proud of that fact these days, let alone admit to it. But those were the insane emotions and reaction to that movie. Now look at it's legacy. So each of these films always seem to shoot to the stars when they're new, then find some place in the middle as time goes by.

In terms of risk, I'm not ready to qualify this movie as such because much of what it did was only suggested.

Spoiler

Luke "appears" to be gone but he gave Leia some kind of cubes that could be anything. And they have advanced the powers of the Force so much, how do we honestly know he died because he vanished? Isn't the mantra of this film, what you think you know, you don't?
Maybe he can transport himself now. Who the heck knows?

They're making this stuff up as they go, so I see nothing that says anything is permanent here. If opinion and box office retreat, they can go right back into that writer's room and fix most of what ills people. I think because of it's wide appeal (not to mention blind following), studios might feel a bit more inclined to inject their own ideas, because as you can see fans take very little and make mountains out of it.

The closest thing I can compare this to is when fans went nuts looking for subliminal messages in Beatles songs. Lennon got such a kick out of that he started writing nonsense lyrics just to get a rise out of fans. To some degree I think that is what the Star Wars movies have been reduced to. They just throw a bunch of ideas against the wall and watch fans go insane. My initial feeling is this movie was contrived to do just that. It was a purposeful manipulation and I don't think they expected quite the kickback they are getting. I think they felt it was a safe maneuver to keep the brand in the conversation.

I don't think they expected leading newspapers to focus on the backlash and give a spotlight to those who truly disliked it. A little controversy within the base? Sure. But a national dialogue on what people didn't like? Not at all. I'm certain Disney will keep the poker face of " We planned it this way" as long as the ticket sells stay good. But time will tell how that trends.

 

[Frodo]

It is possible to love both.

I gave them both the same B- grade. Not really crazy about them, but they weren't awful.

At the same time , I am surprised how many fans who considered it a crime to criticism TFA two years ago, so easily discard it in favor of TLJ, and are now critical of what JJ did.

 

[BatLobster]

But like you say...people are so possessive of it. Even though I do think JJ might have over-mystery box'd it in TFA, in reality no matter what you throw on screen, if it's the Star Wars universe, especially jumping ahead 30 years into it, people are gonna run crazy and speculate. That's no design by Disney, that's just what inevitably happens. Especially in today's world where we hyper-scrutinize the crap out of our pop culture. It's not just Star Wars, it's TV, it's everything. Westworld is another good example where people went batsh** crazy on Reddit teaming up on theories and basically spoiled a lot of the show because they were so smart. And that's a very well-written show.

For me the victory of this film is I'm no longer going into Episode IX with my primary focus on what I want/hope to happen. I just want to be told a good concluding story, whatever shape that takes. I still have some hopes and wants of course, and I'll be speculating along with everyone once we get our first tease. But I'm at a point where I'm ready to accept that Ben Solo is the end of the Skywalker line, and I wasn't really there before TLJ.

Also, Luke is definitely dead. He did the disappearing force ghost trick ala Obi-Wan and Yoda. He'll be back as a force ghost I'm sure.

The "cubes" are actually Han's dice that hang in the Millenium Falcon cockpit in the OT. They're never featured prominently, but they're there.

 

[Another_Fool]

So this divide is officially part of it's legacy. What that means over time is not determined yet. And no, Empire did not play like this. Sorry, that thinking is wrong. I was finishing my freshman year in high school when that came out. That film was dark, but honestly it established Vader as the greatest villain of all time and had fans clamoring to see how Luke would answer back. It was a great cliffhanger. Empire did not splinter the fan base like this at all. So the comparison is not well founded.

I don't know man. You're right that it didn't divide people but that's because Empire at the time was unanimously considered weaker than Star Wars since it wasn't as fun and joyous. Also it was thought that the movie felt incomplete and didn't have a beginning or end. People didn't get upset about the characterizations of say Luke, but they thought the everyone seemed more grumpy. Yoda was considered a technical marvel, and some critics did concede that the movie was well made, but they'd insist it lacked the magic of the first.

Hence the common consensus that the movie was only alright. It's only well after fans saw how the saga competed along with the benefit of vhs did people finally begin to think Empire was better than Star Wars.